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Thread: Update: LED array progress

  1. #1
    Senior Member IowaDavid's Avatar
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    Default Update: LED array progress

    Hi, guys. Just to check in again. I've taken to falling asleep in the chair I use to sit in front of my LED array a couple of times a week (when I feel like it; I listen to BBC radio or NPR and do some breathing and then drift off). That helps boost my total exposure time up into a couple of hundred minutes per day, but, most of the time, I use the array for, say, 30 minutes each day.
    I'm beginning to wonder if installing a red LED array a foot or so above my pillow would be worth the trouble.... ;)
    However, I'm beginning to ween myself off of clonidine, as it's becoming superfluous for the most part and sort of like benadryl: A sleep-inducer.
    By no means am I "cured", but I am continuing to make steady progress and am more and more able to neglect all of those little disease attachments (water bottles, Misty Mate, and now clonidine) without problems.
    I am also planning to install a second tier to my LED array, so I can essentially double my total exposure while I use it. As I've been playing around with extensive exposure times--several hours once or twice a week and then regular exposure sessions [with eye protection!!!]--I'm beginning to think that total exposure time to a given density of photons that are at a specific wavelength (660nm for me, though I'm trying to figure out if other wavelengths between 590nm-660nm are helpful, too) is what is helpful.
    This is how I've worked my way up: my original Acnelamp all-red unit, going from 10 minutes/day, to 15 minutes, to 2 x 15 minutes; my first homemade array

    then I worked up to using this up to 60 minutes a day.

    Now, I'm using this,

    though I've added two extra "towers" to make a total of eight. This is what I'm exposing myself to, as a guestimate, I'd say around, 7 hours total per week (that may be conservative given that I'm beginning this "sleeping exposure" trial).

    So, I'm going to double the array I'm using now by making a second tier/balcony for 8 more "towers" that are declined toward my face at around a 15-degree angle. This should bring me up to 147 LEDs per tower x 16 = 2352 LEDs.

    Also, I'm going to be trying a few "towers" on my hands to see if it will affect my Raynaud's, as my nose is looking much better now and that used to be a tomato when it got cold.

    So, that's my update for now. I still have to do some more reading and decide which LEDs (which red wavelength) I want to purchase for this next lot. I'm still not clear on that just now.

    This update is just to add: I'm using a red LED array that is far more powerful than commercial models, and using it for extended periods, and only seeing benefits. I'm planning on trying more intensive exposure, I'll report back.

    I have subtype-1 rosacea. I don't know what the action red light therapy would have on other subtypes. I'm going to assume, since rosacea is an infllamatory disorder at heart, that red light therapy would be, at worst, benign.

    David 8)
    35 year-old male
    Erythmatotelangiectatic rosacea & Ocular
    20 + laser treatments.
    Toleraine Soothing Light Facial Fluid for moisturizer. I don't use a special cleanser. Clonidine daily; klonopin sometimes.
    BEST and CURRENT TREATMENT I use: Low-Level Red Light Therapy LED array.
    Please feel free to PM me with your low-level red light therapy (LLRLT) questions. I'm happy to help if I can.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Peter's Avatar
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    Default

    Hello David

    With your permission I will send a link of your post to Tony Chu and try and get his comments. I think your before and after pictures are somewhere so I would like to send those to him as well.

    Couple of questions.

    Do you use your LED array everyday with out fail ? If not what's the longest you have not used it ? The reason I ask is that although I usually try and use mine daily it is not always convenient and I find now after 8 years just missing a few days or even a week makes no difference to my skin condition. Might well be that after a set period of time you only need say a maintenance session once a week just to keep the status quo.

    What do you do when you go on holiday etc ? I would imagine it would be difficult to pack your array in a suitcase. I have taken my lamp in the boot of the car when travelling but I have never flown with it and I can imagine some problems with airline security.

    I weaned myself off Clonidine back in May 2002 and have never had any flushing problems since.

    Regards

    Peter

  3. #3
    Senior Member IowaDavid's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's fine, by all means forward it to him you think he'd be interested.

    Well, I haven't really been able to take a holiday for 3 years now. For a year or so, I was essentially housebound. I think what I'm going to do is cut some impressions into a plank of styrofoam and lay the arrays in there for carrying it. I'd probably only take 3 or 4 of the arrays; that's plenty to use, especially for a short period. The power supply is about half the size of a VCR, so, it'd be like taking an extra carrying bag all together.

    I'd guess that, eventually, I will be able to cut back to 15 minutes a day, and it will, as you say, be like a maintenance "dose". Right now, I'm using it more each day as I'm trying to speed up my progress to that point that where I'm symptom-free. Right now, I'd guess I could go a few days before I'd start to notice a gradual increase in redness and flushing.

    David
    35 year-old male
    Erythmatotelangiectatic rosacea & Ocular
    20 + laser treatments.
    Toleraine Soothing Light Facial Fluid for moisturizer. I don't use a special cleanser. Clonidine daily; klonopin sometimes.
    BEST and CURRENT TREATMENT I use: Low-Level Red Light Therapy LED array.
    Please feel free to PM me with your low-level red light therapy (LLRLT) questions. I'm happy to help if I can.

  4. #4
    Senior Member colander's Avatar
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    Hi!

    Im new here and have suffered from Rosacea for 6 years. Started when I was 16. Ive tried a lot of creams and gels and antibiotics and stuff, but nothing works, so now my ambition is to build my own LED array and try light therapy, and the safer method with incoherent light to begin with. I guess it will be somewhat cheaper than buying the Dimalux lamp. So if you guys are still here in the forum I have some quetions and hope you can help me, maybe just with finding the threads im looking for. Its an easy question actually.

    How do I build this LED array? How much does it cost? Where did you get the LEDs?
    Im very grateful for every little piece of information that I need to get this project accomplished.

    I havent found any forums in my native language so Im happy to see this one existing now.

    Regards,
    John

    Ok, sorry, I just found the sticky.
    Last edited by colander; 6th August 2009 at 01:01 PM.

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    Colander,

    I too suffered for awhile trying various creams, supplements, cleansers to no avail. I wanted to do all I could to try and stay away from drugs so I decided to build my own LED array about 4 months ago based on the schematics laid out in the Sticky posted by IowaDavid and Melissa. What also led me to try LED therapy was my guess that my rosacea was primarily vascular based and after reading about how LLLT 'repairs' vessel structures and produces collagen.

    I was able to build a 650 diode device (650nm) that spans from the chin to the top of my eyebrows and from ear to ear when positioned about an 1-2 inches away from my face. I also fashioned it so that I can lay down and it is suspended above me. I have been using it almost everyday for about 20+ minutes a day. As I recall, the total cost was around $300-$350 to build it.

    LED therapy has been far and away the most effective treatment I have found. Prior to starting LED therapy, I had 3 IPLs and 1 Vbeam that did help to a certain extent but the results diminished as time went on leading to the need for more sessions and those are not cheap! On the other hand, my results from LED therapy have been cumulative and my skin looks better now than probably anytime in the past 10 years and I've only been doing it for 4 months. I want to say thank you to IowaDavid, Peter and everyone else who has provided feedback about LED treatment on this forum. I will even go so far as to say that LED therapy has been one of the best decisions I've made in my life up to this point because, prior to starting, my condition was starting to get quite bad and nothing was working to treat it, it was taking an emotional toll on me.

    Bottom line, I have only the best things to say about LED therapy and if you're handy, you can make a custom array with more diodes/coverage than a commercial device for fairly inexpensive. That being said, I know that what works for one person might not for another so if you want to try it out without taking the plunge of investing the time and money to build one, you could buy a small (50-100) diode handheld device to try.

    One final question, for the all the long time users, do you wear safety goggles when using a device that has 650nm diodes. I thought I read somewhere that infared is dangerous but the 650nm wavelength is not dangerous to the eyes.

  6. #6
    Senior Member colander's Avatar
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    Thanks for your answer Chris!

    Rosacea is ruining my life too. Nothing seem to help and the diseased area never start growing. One papul/postule at the time slowly taking over more and more of my face, spreading its redness. I have it on both cheeks and growing down from underneath the eyes, now in height with my over lip. Its also on one side of my chin and have never got over to the other side. Its also all over my nose. I have nothing on my forehead or the area between my mouth and nose.

    My first idea is to try this therapy on only one, the bit worse, side of my face. If it gets better Ill try it on the other side too.

    A question about the diodes that IowaDavid recommend to buy. Why just those at 660 nm? And whats that 1300, 1200, intensity? Have anyone tried some of the other lamps?

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    Colander,

    The LEDS I used and I believe are in IowaDavid's sticky are found here:

    http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/r1330_specs.htm

    They are actually 660nm, the viewing angle is 30 degrees which means the light dispurses better over a larger area, I'm not sure how or even if lumnious intensity plays into effectiveness for our purposes. The prices at this site are as good as I have found and they have give discounts for larger orders.

    Just a side note, my rosacea consisted of almost entirely diffuse redness - I believe from many broken miniscule vessels, I did not have a problem with pustules but I think I recall others having some success using RLT for pustules.

    Good luck and keep up posted! Let us know if you have other questions.

  8. #8
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    Chris and Colander

    I don't use goggles. Indeed, at least one member has noted improvements in her occular symptoms with RLT. I haven't seen a cogent reason for using them.

    However, I know of two seasoned campaigners who use, and advocate the use of, goggles.

    Others have used infrared arrays (usually 880nm) and some have found them perhaps more helpful than red. Lower wavelengths (green and yellow) have been used too. (Broadly, the higher wavelengths penetrate more deeply).

    Red is perhaps the best place to start.

    Good luck to you both.

  9. #9
    Senior Member colander's Avatar
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    Ive been looking for alternatives to building my own device. What do you think about this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/225-LED-GROW-LIG...d=p3286.c0.m14

    Shouldnt that work? Or do you see any fundamental difference to those lamps used in rosacea therapy? Are they too strong to be used on skin or something that can do harm?
    Last edited by colander; 11th August 2009 at 06:35 AM.

  10. #10
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    The wavelength to that device is 620-630nm...for our purposes, I've read that 650-660nm is more efficient at emitting the light and in turn is more effective for our purposes. I have no experience with 620-630nm wavelength so I can't say for sure, just going off of what I've read.

    The other thing is the density of the diodes. At 12"x12" with a 15x15 pattern, the spacing between diodes is about 3/4" apart. The closer the spacing, the quicker an effective treatment of joules can be delivered. For the device I built, I spaced the diodes about 1/8" apart to condense as tightly as possible to cut down on treatment time to get an effective dose. In theory, further spacing would just mean more treatment time. Just a few things to consider.

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