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Thread: Iontophoresis Botox Treatments for Hyperhidrosis

  1. #1
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    Default Iontophoresis Botox Treatments for Hyperhidrosis

    A quick google search revealed something interesting:

    http://www.sweathelp.org/PDF/BotoxDe...tophoresis.pdf

    http://www.sweatsolutions.org/SweatS...nCode=95129982


    The technology is here guys, time for some one to pick up the ball. Here we have a seriously powerful tool for not only reducing some forms of flushing, but actually iradicating them all together! And this is not in the future, it is here and now (infact, I saw the potential of botox for myself 2 years ago).

    Seriously, if the blushers / flushers of this group want to pool their energy's, then we should certainly be pushing for this to happen.

    BB

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    Heck, I would be willing to try this method right now if only I could get a dermatologist in my area to go along with it and properly administer it. Or maybe a cosmetic surgeon's office might be willing, don't know though. But sounds really promising like you say Bob, and with practically no side effects. One question however, how long do you anticipate one application will last or rather how long did you experience results when you tried botox a few years ago?

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    Default Re: Iontophoresis Botox Treatments for Hyperhidrosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Bear
    A quick google search revealed something interesting:

    http://www.sweathelp.org/PDF/BotoxDe...tophoresis.pdf

    http://www.sweatsolutions.org/SweatS...nCode=95129982


    The technology is here guys, time for some one to pick up the ball. Here we have a seriously powerful tool for not only reducing some forms of flushing, but actually iradicating them all together! And this is not in the future, it is here and now (infact, I saw the potential of botox for myself 2 years ago).

    Seriously, if the blushers / flushers of this group want to pool their energy's, then we should certainly be pushing for this to happen.

    BB

    Hi Bob,

    That is the basis of the technology. The much newer pads are larger (for the whole face) and have more iontophoretic drive (nanoamperes) to get the meds down deeper.

    All we need is one doctor. One doctor has to buy this, try it and publish a report on one patient and it will zing around the world via pubmed.

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    Geoffrey,

    Anyone in your little 'black book' stand out as a likely candidate?

    Just as Dr Bitter is the father of IPL for rosacea, who will be the father of botox for rosacea and blushing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Bear
    Geoffrey,

    Anyone in your little 'black book' stand out as a likely candidate?

    Just as Dr Bitter is the father of IPL for rosacea, who will be the father of botox for rosacea and blushing?

    I have two possible derms at IU School of Medicine and several up in Chicago. They are so very busy though. The secret, and it may sound funny ....... is to find a couple of top quality dermatologists who need to publish to meet their yearly requirement of novel publications to keep their tenure. Some will do it out of pure medical curiousity and help, while others have such successful practices, that they still need to meet their University Publication requirements. Actually, Dr. Drummond in Australia is always up for these types of studies.

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    BOTOX for facial flushing. The first abstract was performed by a colleague of mine at IU School of Medicine. I will follow up with our good doctor to see if Dr. Jacob would like to perform larger studies. I also included a fourth abstract as a great review article for your practice.



    Dermatol Surg. 2004 Jan;30(1):102-4. Related Articles, Links


    Botulinum toxin for the treatment of facial flushing.

    Yuraitis M, Jacob CI.

    Indiana University Medical School, Indianapolis, Indiana Advanced Skin and Mohs Surgery Center, Skokie, Illinois 60076, USA.

    BACKGROUND: Facial flushing is a common problem that is encountered by fair-skinned patients of Celtic and Northern European descent. Although usually transient in nature, some patients display a persistent reddened skin tone, with periods of increased erythema. Treatment of this condition is limited. OBJECTIVE: To describe a novel method for the treatment of persistent facial flushing. METHOD: We report a case of persistent facial flushing that was resistant to multiple pulsed dye laser treatments and was successfully treated with botulinum toxin A. RESULTS: The posttreatment appearance was dramatic, and the patient was highly satisfied with the cosmetic outcome. CONCLUSION: Botulinum toxin A can be used in small quantities to decrease persistent facial flushing temporarily.

    Publication Types:
    Case Reports




    Clin Exp Dermatol. 2003 Nov;28(6):592-4. Related Articles, Links


    Successful use of Botulinum toxin-A for the treatment of neck and anterior chest wall flushing.

    Sterodimas A, Nicolaou M, Paes TR.

    Department of Vascular Surgery, Hillingdon and Mount Vernon NHS trust, Northwood, UK.

    Neck and anterior chest wall flushing can be a social handicap to the sufferer and current treatment options are often unsatisfactory. We report the case of a 48-year-old woman with severe flushing of the anterior neck and anterior chest wall which resolved after three treatments of intracutaneous botulinum toxin A injections. We believe that this treatment method for skin flushing is simple, effective and free of significant side effects at these sites. Further studies are needed to evaluate the duration of the therapeutic effect.

    Publication Types:
    Case Reports


    Clin Auton Res. 2002 Jun;12(3):174-8. Related Articles, Links


    The role of gustatory flushing in Frey's syndrome and its treatment with botulinum toxin type A.

    Tugnoli V, Marchese Ragona R, Eleopra R, Quatrale R, Capone JG, Pastore A, Montecucco C, De Grandis D.

    Neurology Department, S.Anna Hospital, Ferrara, Italy. vtugnoli@hotmail.com

    After parotid surgery, gustatory sweating and flushing occur more frequently, the former reportedly in 15-100% of cases, while no reliable data are available for the latter. Although botulinum toxin (BoNT) is effective in controlling sweating, little is known about its effect on flushing. In 17 patients suffering from Frey's syndrome after parotid surgery, we studied the gustatory flushing phenomenon as compared to gustatory sweating, analyzing their frequency, area, type of stimulus and response to BoNT administration. Cutaneous blood flow (CBF) was monitored by laser Doppler flowmetry (LDF) on affected and unaffected areas of the cheek in basal conditions and after meals, before and then 1 month after starting the BoNT injections. The Minor test was used to identify the sweating area. Flushing was observed in 7 of 17 patients after masticatory activity, spicy meals or citrus fruits. No clinical data correlated with any presence of flushing. Flushing regressed completely after BoNT administration and CBF reached similar values in the affected and unaffected sites. No adverse effects were observed. BoNT administration proved an effective and safe treatment for gustatory sweating and flushing in patients with Frey's syndrome.


    Dermatol Surg. 1998 Nov;24(11):1244-7. Related Articles, Links


    The adjunctive usage of botulinum toxin.

    Carruthers J, Carruthers A.

    Department of Ophthalmology, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada.

    BACKGROUND: Botulinum toxin is a safe, helpful adjunct to many other treatments for facial rejuvenation. Used together, the final result is more polished and refined. In addition, botulinum toxin can be used to maintain the surgical laser results by preventing dynamic facial muscular action re-establishing expressive wrinkles and folds. OBJECTIVES: We describe the facial areas best treated with botulinum toxin and our adjunctive techniques so that the cosmetic physician can easily incorporate these into their practice. RESULTS: The aesthetic results are improved with the combination of botulinum toxin and the surgical or laser procedure over either modality alone. CONCLUSIONS: We believe that there are many new treatment options for combined therapy with botulinum toxin, laser resurfacing, and surgical procedure in periocular and facial rejuvenation that the aesthetic physician can easily incorporate into their practice.

    Publication Types:
    Review
    Review, Tutorial

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    The good news about the reduction in flushing is that it lasts much longer than BOTOX used for deep wrinkles. Instead of 4 to 5 months for wrinkles it can last up to 9 months for flushing.

    I have a very good friend who has rosacea primarily on her forehead. Redness, flushing and papules. She started getting the normal 9 injections across her forhead 6 years ago for wrinkles. Her rosacea redness, flushing and papules completely disappeared. The treatment of the papules was surprising to say the least. This lasted 8 months. Her next treatment last 12 month and her next treatment lasted approximately 15 months. Very intriguing to see that each subsequent treatment lasts longer in her case. This has been documented in other cases. Once you block acetylcholine for a while, the receptors decrease in number -- this may explain why the results last longer over time.

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    Default Re: Iontophoresis Botox Treatments for Hyperhidrosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Bear
    A quick google search revealed something interesting:

    http://www.sweathelp.org/PDF/BotoxDe...tophoresis.pdf

    http://www.sweatsolutions.org/SweatS...nCode=95129982


    The technology is here guys, time for some one to pick up the ball. Here we have a seriously powerful tool for not only reducing some forms of flushing, but actually iradicating them all together! And this is not in the future, it is here and now (infact, I saw the potential of botox for myself 2 years ago).

    Seriously, if the blushers / flushers of this group want to pool their energy's, then we should certainly be pushing for this to happen.

    BB
    Mr Bear, any ideas on how much these kinds of treatment would set you back?

  9. #9
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    Andy,

    I have absolutely no idea mate. The trial I had was without charge, as it was more an experiment than anything. I thought regular botox treatments were around the 200 mark, so not cheap.

    But this is a very different treatment so who knows? For the moment, I would just be happy to see some rosacea dollars going in this direction. We are all getting excited for Sans Rosa which is at best a few years away, yet we have something that is more effective (for some types of flushing) right under our noses.


    Geoffrey,

    "Instead of 4 to 5 months for wrinkles it can last up to 9 months for flushing"

    It was my experience that the botox peaked for about 4 months, then gradually wore off. However, it was still active a little over a year later. If this is consistent over the long term, then I reckon treatments ever 6 - 8 months is realistic.



    "I will follow up with our good doctor to see if Dr. Jacob would like to perform larger studies."

    Make it so fella, make it so. This is the next logical step. We know botox works for fb/ff, we know that it can be delivered transdermally, so now someone needs to connect the two.

    Lets not allow this to be a flash in the pan, I feel this treatment could make a huge difference to the lives of MANY people (myself included). At the least it should help us until something better comes along.

    BB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Bear
    Andy,

    I have absolutely no idea mate. The trial I had was without charge, as it was more an experiment than anything. I thought regular botox treatments were around the 200 mark, so not cheap.

    But this is a very different treatment so who knows? For the moment, I would just be happy to see some rosacea dollars going in this direction. We are all getting excited for Sans Rosa which is at best a few years away, yet we have something that is more effective (for some types of flushing) right under our noses.


    Geoffrey,

    "Instead of 4 to 5 months for wrinkles it can last up to 9 months for flushing"

    It was my experience that the botox peaked for about 4 months, then gradually wore off. However, it was still active a little over a year later. If this is consistent over the long term, then I reckon treatments ever 6 - 8 months is realistic.



    "I will follow up with our good doctor to see if Dr. Jacob would like to perform larger studies."

    Make it so fella, make it so. This is the next logical step. We know botox works for fb/ff, we know that it can be delivered transdermally, so now someone needs to connect the two.

    Lets not allow this to be a flash in the pan, I feel this treatment could make a huge difference to the lives of MANY people (myself included). At the least it should help us until something better comes along.

    BB

    Hi Bob,

    I will contact him, I promise. We will find out what subgroup this helps, what triggers this helps and to what degree.

    Now let me temper this with some reports. I have had just as many rosacea sufferers state that this has not helped as those that say it has helped.

    It has helped with baseline redness.
    It has helped with papules.
    It has helped with active flushing.

    The mechanism is purely acetylcholine driven.
    I would like to better define who this would help, just like you Bob. I know this will help many triggers (or active bouts of flushing) because flushing to heat, warm environments, spicy foods, spontaneous flushing, parasympathetic mediated flushing and vagal nerve flushing all have a cholinergic component to them.

    The cost for the full face would be approximatley $500 to $750 with the regular dilution.

    For the record. I trust 99% of doctors, but you must know that the AMA is now requiring physicians to bring out the vial unopened and let the patient watch dispense of the drug because some physicians or estheticians are diluting it by a factor of 10 or higher and then people wonder why it may not work. Just a word to the wise. Request politely that they use a new, unopened vial and that they open it and dispense it in front of you.

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