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Thread: Demodicosis that can be passed on?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manufc View Post
    Sorry but i dont know how i get it. The thing with me is that i developed a few pimples on my legs and genital area, this is common in scabies but with demodex? i dont read any paper that explains pimples in that zones with demodex, maybe someone here knows about it.
    Given that demodex mites can live anywhere there's a hair follicle and/or sebaceous gland, I would assume it's possible? although uncommon. I remember reading a report about demodicosis affecting the genital area, but in that particular case it overlapped with another inflammatory skin condition. I agree that what you describe sounds typical of scabies.
    I have actually been suspecting that those areas have been affected for me as well. Not initially, but after some time had passed I began to feel a crawling sensation on my legs that came and went, with no visible symptoms. I can't say with certainty that it's the demodex, but it wouldn't be surprising since the mites seem to be affecting my upper arms + upper chest, aside from my head

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    Have your dermatologist read this post.
    I did actually bring up the study about combined ivermectin + metronidazole, and my then-dermatologist proceeded to consult her colleagues on whether I should get ivermectin prescribed or not. They remitted me to the dermatology unit at my city's university hospital instead and there the doctors didn't want to consider demodex mites, so that has been my problem. I appreciate the link, it'll be useful for my follow-up appointment in a few days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soapbubbles1 View Post
    I did actually bring up the study about combined ivermectin + metronidazole, and my then-dermatologist proceeded to consult her colleagues on whether I should get ivermectin prescribed or not. They remitted me to the dermatology unit at my city's university hospital instead and there the doctors didn't want to consider demodex mites, so that has been my problem. I appreciate the link, it'll be useful for my follow-up appointment in a few days.
    It is mind boggling that some dermatologists are simply not keeping up with demodectic rosacea. Ask the dermatologist if they have heard about Soolantra? It has only made Galderma millions and millions of dollars and apparently not from any prescriptions they have written. Years ago the demodex controversy was so pervasive with old school dermatologist who dismissed demodex because that was the prevailing view of the medical community. The variant, Demodectic Rosacea, is now established beyond any doubt. If your dermatologist really hasn't heard about Soolantra, ask them about Permetherin, which has been around a bit longer. Keep us posted on your journey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    It is mind boggling that some dermatologists are simply not keeping up with demodectic rosacea. Ask the dermatologist if they have heard about Soolantra? It has only made Galderma millions and millions of dollars and apparently not from any prescriptions they have written. Years ago the demodex controversy was so pervasive with old school dermatologist who dismissed demodex because that was the prevailing view of the medical community. The variant, Demodectic Rosacea, is now established beyond any doubt. If your dermatologist really hasn't heard about Soolantra, ask them about Permetherin, which has been around a bit longer. Keep us posted on your journey.
    The first derm I mentioned prescribed me Soolantra actually, but since my "infestation" is quite extensive and not just limited to the face, Soolantra just isn't sufficient to treat it (and I wouldn't want to risk letting the mites develop resistance if I have a chance getting the oral ivermectin). I tried Soolantra for about 3 days until I realized this, and I did notice some improvement in that short time, so it is strange to me that none of the other derms are willing to let me try oral ivermectin when Soolantra was effective I agree it's mind boggling that the knowledge about demodex and their connection to rosacea + other skin problems aren't more widespread.
    I'll be posting updates!
    Last edited by soapbubbles1; 21st October 2020 at 03:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soapbubbles1 View Post
    The first derm I mentioned prescribed me Soolantra actually, but since my "infestation" is quite extensive and not just limited to the face, Soolantra just isn't sufficient to treat it (and I wouldn't want to risk letting the mites develop resistance if I have a chance getting the oral ivermectin). I tried Soolantra for about 3 days until I realized this, and I did notice some improvement in that short time, so it is strange to me that none of the other derms are willing to let me try oral ivermectin when Soolantra was effective I agree it's mind boggling that the knowledge about demodex and their connection to rosacea + other skin problems aren't more widespread.
    I'll be posting updates!
    Obviously your first dermatologist knows about demodex mites. There is no way that three days would give you enough time for clearance. On the Soolantra Office Website it says regarding one study that , "subjects were 'clear' or 'almost clear' over time in a yearlong study."

    It takes three to six months with Soolantra for any improvement (rarely in two weeks). One clinical trial said it takes four to twelve weeks for improvement. Another paper said, "or 'almost clear' over time in a yearlong study. You will be hard pressed to find any rosacea treatment to give you clearance in three days. Where did you got your information that the 'mites develop resistance' to ivermectin? Never heard of this. What happens is that there are usually more mite eggs hatching at different times and that is why it takes months to get to 'almost clearance.' Even after clearance, usually those who say Soolantra works for them continue to use it once a week or more as a 'maintenance' to keep the mites at bay. The consensus among most authorities on this subject say that demodex mites are on all humans worldwide, and that there is some unknown symbiotic relationship with humans and the numbers are usually just a few per centimeter on humans that pose absolutely no known issues. In rosacea patients the numbers per centimeter are higher and this apparently is the issue. Hence, the theory is that ivermectin reduces the number of demodex. Usually, most want to know, What are the numbers?
    Last edited by Brady Barrows; 21st October 2020 at 05:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    Obviously your first dermatologist knows about demodex mites. There is no way that three days would give you enough time for clearance. On the Soolantra Office Website it says regarding one study that , "subjects were 'clear' or 'almost clear' over time in a yearlong study."

    It takes three to six months with Soolantra for any improvement (rarely in two weeks). One clinical trial said it takes four to twelve weeks for improvement. Another paper said, "or 'almost clear' over time in a yearlong study. You will be hard pressed to find any rosacea treatment to give you clearance in three days. Where did you got your information that the 'mites develop resistance' to ivermectin? Never heard of this. What happens is that there are usually more mite eggs hatching at different times and that is why it takes months to get to 'almost clearance.' Even after clearance, usually those who say Soolantra works for them continue to use it once a week or more as a 'maintenance' to keep the mites at bay. The consensus among most authorities on this subject say that demodex mites are on all humans worldwide, and that there is some unknown symbiotic relationship with humans and the numbers are usually just a few per centimeter on humans that pose absolutely no known issues. In rosacea patients the numbers per centimeter are higher and this apparently is the issue. Hence, the theory is that ivermectin reduces the number of demodex. Usually, most want to know, What are the numbers?
    I see, I might have overestimated Soolantra then. What happened was, I got treated with a strong benzyl benzoate cream (for scabies) that you're supposed to leave on for 24 h, which wiped out a lot of the demodex mites (all the follicle plugs disappeared and my skin was smooth again, redness disappeared, hair loss stopped etc) but didn't get rid of all the pimples. So when I tried Soolantra after that, I experienced a significant reduction in the amount of spots I had, my skin hadn't looked that flawless in a long time. I thought it was thanks to Soolantra but after reading your post, maybe it just took some time for the pimples to go away after I used benzyl benzoate and there wasn't a correlation with the Soolantra.
    I don't know about ivermectin resistance but I'm just cautious since my mites seem to have become resistant to benzyl benzoate (I used it irregularly because of some complications with the "alleged" scabies situation) and I don't want to risk that happening with any other effective substance. If there seems to be no hope for me getting a prescription for oral ivermectin, of course I will have to use Soolantra (along with trying some other things). Anyway, I will update this thread again after my dermatologist appointment.
    Last edited by soapbubbles1; 21st October 2020 at 06:18 PM.

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    "Benzyl benzoate is an organic compound which is used as a medication and insect repellent As a medication it is used to treat scabies and lice. For scabies either permethrin or malathion is typically preferred." Source. Benzyl benzoate is an anticestode.

    As I mentioned earlier, you might want to ask your dermatologist about Permethrin. Another one to ask your dermatologist about is Crotamiton (read this post). Another one to ask about is Praziquantel. These three antiparasitic treatments have been used to also treat rosacea.

    I haven't read anywhere mites become resistant to Antiparasitic treatments in the same sense that bacteria become resistant to antibiotics (antimicrobial resistance). "Broad-Spectrum antiparasitics, analogous to broad-spectrum antibiotics for bacteria, are antiparasitic drugs with efficacy in treating a wide range of parasitic infections caused by parasites from different classes." Antiparasitic

    If you could find any references to either the scabies mite or demodex mite being resistant to antiparasitic medication, that would be helpful since I think you would have a difficult time finding references to this. Probably you simply have to keep treating the mites since they continue to hatch eggs after the adults are killed. It takes months to eradicate the numbers but they continue to hatch and grow and lay more eggs.

    Here is a list of anti-parasitic treatments for rosacea.

    "Some 10% sulfur solutions have been shown to be effective, and sulfur ointments are typically used for at least a week, though many people find the odor of sulfur products unpleasant." Scabies

    Sulphur (Sulfur) treatments are also used to treat rosacea. The ZZ cream is made from sublimed sulphur and if you search through RF using the search tool you will find many threads on this, i.e., this thread.

    Thanks for keeping us posted of your progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by soapbubbles1 View Post
    I see, I might have overestimated Soolantra then. What happened was, I got treated with a strong benzyl benzoate cream (for scabies) that you're supposed to leave on for 24 h, which wiped out a lot of the demodex mites (all the follicle plugs disappeared and my skin was smooth again, redness disappeared, hair loss stopped etc) but didn't get rid of all the pimples. So when I tried Soolantra after that, I experienced a significant reduction in the amount of spots I had, my skin hadn't looked that flawless in a long time. I thought it was thanks to Soolantra but after reading your post, maybe it just took some time for the pimples to go away after I used benzyl benzoate and there wasn't a correlation with the Soolantra. I don't know about ivermectin resistance but I'm just cautious since my mites seem to have become resistant to benzyl benzoate (I used it irregularly because of some complications with the "alleged" scabies situation) and I don't want to risk that happening with any other effective substance. If there seems to be no hope for me getting a prescription for oral ivermectin, of course I will have to use Soolantra (along with trying some other things). Anyway, I will update this thread again after my dermatologist appointment.
    Last edited by Brady Barrows; 22nd October 2020 at 12:40 AM.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    "Benzyl benzoate is an organic compound which is used as a medication and insect repellent As a medication it is used to treat scabies and lice. For scabies either permethrin or malathion is typically preferred." Source. Benzyl benzoate is an anticestode.

    As I mentioned earlier, you might want to ask your dermatologist about Permethrin. Another one to ask your dermatologist about is Crotamiton (read this post). Another one to ask about is Praziquantel. These three antiparasitic treatments have been used to also treat rosacea.

    I haven't read anywhere mites become resistant to Antiparasitic treatments in the same sense that bacteria become resistant to antibiotics (antimicrobial resistance). "Broad-Spectrum antiparasitics, analogous to broad-spectrum antibiotics for bacteria, are antiparasitic drugs with efficacy in treating a wide range of parasitic infections caused by parasites from different classes." Antiparasitic

    If you could find any references to either the scabies mite or demodex mite being resistant to antiparasitic medication, that would be helpful since I think you would have a difficult time finding references to this. Probably you simply have to keep treating the mites since they continue to hatch eggs after the adults are killed. It takes months to eradicate the numbers but they continue to hatch and grow and lay more eggs.

    Here is a list of anti-parasitic treatments for rosacea.

    "Some 10% sulfur solutions have been shown to be effective, and sulfur ointments are typically used for at least a week, though many people find the odor of sulfur products unpleasant." Scabies

    Sulphur (Sulfur) treatments are also used to treat rosacea. The ZZ cream is made from sublimed sulphur and if you search through RF using the search tool you will find many threads on this, i.e., this thread.

    Thanks for keeping us posted of your progress.
    I haven?t read any documented report of acaricide resistance among demodex mites either. However, it?s the only logical conclusion I can draw, since the several times that I used the benzyl benzoate cream and left it on for ~24h there was an immediate *drastic* improvement in terms of follicular scaling/plugging, scalp itch and hair fall. Then, after a number of uses with time in between (when the symptoms slowly started creeping back), when I tried it again, I didn?t get the same effect at all. It rather made it worse, with more crawling sensation and stuff.

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    Update for anyone who might be interested: There hasn't really been any progress in getting ivermectin, and it's not looking too bright. I think I will have to start treating this myself Which really sucks, because Borax isn't allowed to buy and use in my country, and I have found no sulphur creams etc. Most available effective products seem to be manufactured outside the EU, and I don?t want to risk breaking the law by importing anything that could be classified as medication.

    Anyhow, I have collected some things that I hope will be effective in mite-killing, but I haven't planned the exact methods of how and when I'll use them. 1. a 10% sulphur soap, that I'm planning to see if I can mix with a carrier of some kind so that I can leave it on my skin overnight. Weird I know but it's the only sulphur product I can get my hands on. 2. a brand of tea tree oil called Plameca with extra high terpinen-4-ol content. I have struggled to find effective TTOs but this one works, I made an experiment under the microscope, and Plameca killed the demodex mite in 10-15 minutes. It also seems from what I have read that selenium sulfide is effective against demodex, so I'm planning to get a shampoo. Then I have the Soolantra prescription of course, which I'll use when I've gotten this somewhat under control again. Also, in case anyone wondered, due to covid I’ve only been at home so I haven’t risked spreading this further.

    I have three questions for anyone who might have the answers. 1. Is there any acaricidal agent that could be used in the bath, except for Borax? I have read some people claim that Himalayan pink salt kills mites, but I don't know if it's true. 2. Does castor oil actually kill demodex, like some people claim, or will they just feed on it? What are your experiences? The only study I've found is one where they tried castor oil for blepharitis, but they didn't specify anything about demodex mites. 3. Does anyone have a clue how fast sulphur is able to kill the mites? I mean, has anyone had any effect with using sulphur soap (as just soap, not leaving it on like i'm planning) and just leaving it on the skin for less than 10 minutes? Couldn't find any study demonstrating sulphur's kill-time in vitro. Hmm, maybe I’ll do my own experiment (i’ll let y’all know)
    Last edited by soapbubbles1; 19th November 2020 at 03:58 AM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by soapbubbles1 View Post
    Update for anyone who might be interested: There hasn't really been any progress in getting ivermectin, and it's not looking too bright. I think I will have to start treating this myself Which really sucks, because Borax isn't allowed to buy and use in my country, and I have found no sulphur creams etc. Most available effective products seem to be manufactured outside the EU, and I don?t want to risk breaking the law by importing anything that could be classified as medication.

    Anyhow, I have collected some things that I hope will be effective in mite-killing, but I haven't planned the exact methods of how and when I'll use them. 1. a 10% sulphur soap, that I'm planning to see if I can mix with a carrier of some kind so that I can leave it on my skin overnight. Weird I know but it's the only sulphur product I can get my hands on. 2. a brand of tea tree oil called Plameca with extra high terpinen-4-ol content. I have struggled to find effective TTOs but this one works, I made an experiment under the microscope, and Plameca killed the demodex mite in 10-15 minutes. It also seems from what I have read that selenium sulfide is effective against demodex, so I'm planning to get a shampoo. Then I have the Soolantra prescription of course, which I'll use when I've gotten this somewhat under control again. Also, in case anyone wondered, due to covid I?ve only been at home so I haven?t risked spreading this further.

    I have three questions for anyone who might have the answers. 1. Is there any acaricidal agent that could be used in the bath, except for Borax? I have read some people claim that Himalayan pink salt kills mites, but I don't know if it's true. 2. Does castor oil actually kill demodex, like some people claim, or will they just feed on it? What are your experiences? The only study I've found is one where they tried castor oil for blepharitis, but they didn't specify anything about demodex mites. 3. Does anyone have a clue how fast sulphur is able to kill the mites? I mean, has anyone had any effect with using sulphur soap (as just soap, not leaving it on like i'm planning) and just leaving it on the skin for less than 10 minutes? Couldn't find any study demonstrating sulphur's kill-time in vitro. Hmm, maybe I?ll do my own experiment (i?ll let y?all know)
    Good questions. I have started a post stimulated by your first question you can read here. The other two questions will have to wait for the answers. Maybe someone else can respond.
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