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Thread: HELP for preventing or minimising post-food FLUSHING

  1. #1
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    Default HELP for preventing or minimising post-food FLUSHING

    Hi everyone,

    I'm 36 and I've had a combination of Rosacea and Seborrheic Dermatitis on the T-Zone for 20 years now which mainly manifests as Chronic redness, Dryness, Seborrhea, Acne and Flushing.

    I have countless triggers but one trigger which has caused me absolute hell for the last 8 months is my flushing to food.

    Basically, whenever I eat pretty much any food my face goes boiling and painfully hot all over and incredibly red, blotchy and inflamed. It takes around 2-3 hours before this subsides back to my baseline.

    Right now, this pretty much happens with anything I eat, with the exception of a selection of cold fruits, vegetables and salad.

    Some foods make the flush worse than others. Hot food much worse than cold. Meats, especially red meat much worse than white meat, which is much worse than fish. I have many years ago cut out the worst rosacea food triggers like tomato, chilli, alcohol etc so those are not even in the equation any more.

    If anyone has any tips on what I can do to try and stop or minimise these flushes it would be great to know. Several years I suffered from the same for about 4 or 5 years - during which time I was virtually a hobbit - but after seeing a dietician and going gluten free, carb restricted, taking supplements, supporting the gut etc, slowly the extreme food flushing subsided.

    Unfortunately it has started again despite me maintaining this diet.

    As an FYI my current medication is Minocycline and Citalopram plus Soolantra cream. For the last 3 months I have also been seeing an Acupuncturist (until the lockdown) and been taking CHinese herbal medicine designed to try and help with this. So far it hasn't but I'm told it can take up to 6 months to help.

    Any help would be appreciated. Really at the end of my wits now.

    Thanks

    Carl

  2. #2
    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Carl,
    What do you eat for breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks during a typical day?

    It is good you are 'carb restricted' but how many grams of carbohydrate do you eat in a day, including everything you eat, i.e., cold fruits? Sugar is the fuel that burns inflammation.

    Antibiotics mess with the gut and is one of the many side effects/risks you take when you continue long term minocycline. There are many authorities who connect the gut with rosacea.

    Citalopram is listed as one of the anti-flushing drugs treatments among a long list.
    Brady Barrows
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  3. #3
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    Hi Brady,

    Thanks very much for your reply.

    Currently I have a very restricted diet as I react to so many foods. I am dairy free, Gluten free, carb restricted (for the reasons you say about inflammation, and in my case I get a lot of spots when I eat Carbs, even when they are Gluten Free), and I cut out all the standard Rosacea and flush foods like Tomato, Chilli, spicy food, foods high in histamine/salicyclates, Alcohol etc.

    Everything I eat is steamed or boiled as oven cooked, microwaved or fried food makes my flushing even worse.

    Right now I have 1. Breakfast: 1 Apple, 1 Pear, 1 Kiwi Fruit...2. Lunch: Fish with Vegetables, 3. Dinner: Chicken/meat with Red potatoes and Salad.

    I take Minocyline and Citalopram. I use Soolantra cream. I wash with plant based cleanser and use plant based moisturiser. Anything non plant based I react to on my face.

    As for the minocyline and citalopram I was taking them for about 5 years, and for the last 3 years of that I managed to get my flushing and Rosacea/SD in general under control after I went to see a dietician who proposed many of the above dietary changes.

    However, last year I tried to come off Minocyline and Citalopram - slowly cutting down and then coming off them - because I didn't want to be on medication for the rest of my life. After a number of month, my face went wild again. Redness, acne, inflammation and intense flushing (including to food) all returned. When I returned to taking them again a few months later, things didn't go back to how they were before when I had things under control. So basically, coming off the Minocyline and Citalopram in the first place was a big mistake on my part.

    For the last 8 months I have been desperately trying to find solutions to get back to where I was when I was managing the Rosacea/SD and the flushing to food/triggers. I've made improvements on the former, but no improvements on the flushing to food.

    Hence my question.

    I have since spoken to a member of this forum privately, who kindly gave me a list of things to try, including Oral Colostrum (which helped their food flushing massively) and intermittent fasting.

    But any other tips would really be appreciated.

    Thanks again

    Carl

  4. #4
    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Carl,

    When we think of 'rebound' with a medication we usually think Mirvaso. However, in medicine, the 'rebound effect' "or rebound phenomenon, is the emergence or re-emergence of symptoms that were either absent or controlled while taking a medication, but appear when that same medication is discontinued, or reduced in dosage. In the case of re-emergence, the severity of the symptoms is often worse than pretreatment levels."

    "Many antidepressants, including SSRIs, can cause rebound depression, panic attacks, anxiety, and insomnia when discontinued."

    There is a report that there may be rebound blood clotting when aspirin is stopped suddenly when taken over a long period. More info.

    So when you came off minocycline and Citalopram you experienced rebound. One option is to do what you are doing and take the minocycline and citalopram again to control your issues.

    However there are other risks associated with long term antibiotic treatment (not to mention long term citalopram) which many rosaceans are willing to accept. They conclude the benefits outweigh the long term effects. Everyone has to decide this alone in the final. While a doctor or other may recommend a long term treatment, you are the one that finally decides and will learn what these long term consequences are. Every medicine has risks, particularly long term risks. The risks of long term antibiotics are considerable. I haven't investigated what the long term effects of taking citalopram are, have you? These long term risks are usually published in the insert that comes with the package, but there are plenty of anecdotal reports on the internet if you googled it. It may be that the benefits outweigh the risks. More info.

    While not dismissing your dietician's recommendations, the fruit and potatoes are high in carbohydrate and if you totaled the total gram content each day you are probably eating at least 300 grams of carbohydrate a day. You may find what many in RF have discovered, that sugar is the fire that burns inflammation. As an experiment, you may try reducing your carbohydrate intake each day for thirty grams a day for just thirty days to see if this improves your skin. Eat more fat and protein which builds tissue regeneration. Carbohydrate has absolutely no essential nutrients and is simply carbon plus water, the fuel that the body cells use in the form of glucose. Many don't believe this and think carbohydrate is essential, and you may one of them. It is very difficult to reduce carbohydrate intake to less than 30 grams a day since sugar is addicitive. However, this is one option for you to consider.

    As for rosacea triggers, sugar is not listed by any other non profit organization for rosacea since they dismiss it. However the RRDi is the only non profit organization to list sugar/carbohydrate as a rosacea trigger. Rosacea triggers are listed from surveys of anecdotal reports and there has never been found one rosacea trigger that will produce a rosacea flareup in every rosacean, not one. The RRDi has accumulated enough anecdotal reports on this subject to list sugar/carbohydrate as a rosacea trigger.

    As for flushing avoidance, there is a long list of treatments to avoid flushing besides taking citalopram, but it is possible that the citalopram is helping you with this.

    Hope this helps in your search to control your rosacea flareups and flushing.

    Brady
    Last edited by Brady Barrows; 19th May 2020 at 03:24 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by since2000 View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I'm 36 and I've had a combination of Rosacea and Seborrheic Dermatitis on the T-Zone for 20 years now which mainly manifests as Chronic redness, Dryness, Seborrhea, Acne and Flushing.

    I have countless triggers but one trigger which has caused me absolute hell for the last 8 months is my flushing to food.

    Basically, whenever I eat pretty much any food my face goes boiling and painfully hot all over and incredibly red, blotchy and inflamed. It takes around 2-3 hours before this subsides back to my baseline.

    Right now, this pretty much happens with anything I eat, with the exception of a selection of cold fruits, vegetables and salad.

    Some foods make the flush worse than others. Hot food much worse than cold. Meats, especially red meat much worse than white meat, which is much worse than fish. I have many years ago cut out the worst rosacea food triggers like tomato, chilli, alcohol etc so those are not even in the equation any more.

    If anyone has any tips on what I can do to try and stop or minimise these flushes it would be great to know. Several years I suffered from the same for about 4 or 5 years - during which time I was virtually a hobbit - but after seeing a dietician and going gluten free, carb restricted, taking supplements, supporting the gut etc, slowly the extreme food flushing subsided.

    Unfortunately it has started again despite me maintaining this diet.

    As an FYI my current medication is Minocycline and Citalopram plus Soolantra cream. For the last 3 months I have also been seeing an Acupuncturist (until the lockdown) and been taking CHinese herbal medicine designed to try and help with this. So far it hasn't but I'm told it can take up to 6 months to help.

    Any help would be appreciated. Really at the end of my wits now.

    Thanks

    Carl
    Hi Carl

    I'm also very sensitive to which foods I eat. There is a very good blog post which I agree with nearly all of what the guy says here about how he improved his rosacea with diet:
    https://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-...al-principles/

    Essentially, removing wheat, rice, dairy, sugar helped this guy and me. The more you adhere to this diet the better you'll do.

    I've found some supplements taken before I eat help with food - e.g. Integrative Therapeutics Similase GFCF (helps with digesting any carbohydrates e.g. potatoes or dairy that you do eat), quercetin and MSM (solgar brand I use).

    However, I've also needed to use medications to control the rosacea - the ones that help with the redness and flushing of rosacea are usually off licence and include - moxonodine, clonodine, hydroxychloroquine, mirtazapine, gabapentin.

  6. #6
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    Hi Brady, thanks again for your detailed reply.

    Re: the rebound. My dermatologist thinks that coming off the Minocyline and Citalopram and then returning may have caused H Pylori bacteria, so I’ll be having a test there next week. But

    I think it’s safe to say that my condition and flushing worsening was down to coming off the meds.

    Re: long term effects of taking the meds. This is why I tried to come off them last year. I have been on various oral meds for the best part of 20 years and hoped that the dietary changes that I made in 2016 which brought about a big improvement in my Rosacea/SD and eliminated most of my flushing would make my oral meds unnecessary. Unfortunately I paid the price for this assumption. Like most sufferers, there’s no point me thinking about the possible side effects years down the line when I will have no life at all unless I get this under control again.

    So that’s why I will have to settle with meds.

    Re: diet… I should point out that in 2016 I started seeing one of the UK’s top dieticians/natural health specialists. She completely overhauled my diet. As well as the numerous Rosacea triggers (most of which are on the trigger list antwantsclear posted below) which I was already avoiding, she put me on a Gluten Free and Dairy Free diet, as well as a very very Carb restricted diet. She also put me on a list of supplements to fight my Rosacea/support Gut health, including G.I Revive supplement, a probiotic, Vitamin D spray, Fish Oil, Aloe Vera juice, and other dietary additions such as bone broth, stewed apple. I ate lots of meat, very little carbs (as it gives me Acne)

    Within a few months of following this diet, my flushing (from food, from heat, hot baths, air conditioning, central heating) and also my ocular rosacea almost entirely disappeared while my baseline redness went down around 70%. My chronic dryness (which I have had since I went on Roaccutane 18 years ago) did not improve. But for the first time since I first got Rosacea/SD in 2000, I had the condition under control.

    I actually had my life back and this lasted until 2019 when around a year ago my dermatologist worked a plan with me to take me off my Minocyline and Citalopram. At first things were okay, but by October/November things had deteriorated badly and the baseline redness had gone very bad, my ocular rosacea was back, and I was severely flushing to all kinds of things, particularly food.

    Since then I’ve managed to improve my baseline redness a bit, but flushing has not improved at all.

    For the last 3 months I have been on a TCM regime with a Chinese TCM practitioner aimed at treating my Rosacea and the Flushing with Chinese Herbal drinks, as well as Acupuncture (which I had to stop because of this damn lockdown).

    So I guess what I am trying to say in a long, roundabout way is that I managed to work out a diet that I didn’t trigger to. Yet now I am reacting even to foods, like all meats, that I wasn’t before. Basically only fruit and vegetables I don’t react to.

    It’s no problem me cutting out all Carbs, I’ve basically been doing that for the last 4 years anyway. The problem is that I am reacting to pretty much everything else too. Also, the only way

    I could prevent not getting massively under-weight was by eating lots of meat, which I now can’t really do.

    Two points/questions...

    1.I was told by my dietician that natural sugar from fruit is fine and doesn’t really count as an inflammatory like Carbohradrates or Unnatural added sugar does. I have no problem with it. Is there any fruit that you consider okay to eat?

    2. That link you provided to the lists of treatments to avoid flushing doesn’t work…could you send the correct link please?

    Thank you so much

    And thanks Antwantsclear too. I read the link you sent, and many of those things are what I implemented after seeing my dietician and they really helped between 2016 and 2019.

    And noted regarded the supplements. I’ve also been recommended Oral Colostrum to stop/minimise flushing from food

    Carl

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by since2000 View Post
    Hi Brady, thanks again for your detailed reply.

    Re: the rebound. My dermatologist thinks that coming off the Minocyline and Citalopram and then returning may have caused H Pylori bacteria, so I’ll be having a test there next week. But

    I think it’s safe to say that my condition and flushing worsening was down to coming off the meds.

    Re: long term effects of taking the meds. This is why I tried to come off them last year. I have been on various oral meds for the best part of 20 years and hoped that the dietary changes that I made in 2016 which brought about a big improvement in my Rosacea/SD and eliminated most of my flushing would make my oral meds unnecessary. Unfortunately I paid the price for this assumption. Like most sufferers, there’s no point me thinking about the possible side effects years down the line when I will have no life at all unless I get this under control again.

    So that’s why I will have to settle with meds.

    Re: diet… I should point out that in 2016 I started seeing one of the UK’s top dieticians/natural health specialists. She completely overhauled my diet. As well as the numerous Rosacea triggers (most of which are on the trigger list antwantsclear posted below) which I was already avoiding, she put me on a Gluten Free and Dairy Free diet, as well as a very very Carb restricted diet. She also put me on a list of supplements to fight my Rosacea/support Gut health, including G.I Revive supplement, a probiotic, Vitamin D spray, Fish Oil, Aloe Vera juice, and other dietary additions such as bone broth, stewed apple. I ate lots of meat, very little carbs (as it gives me Acne)

    Within a few months of following this diet, my flushing (from food, from heat, hot baths, air conditioning, central heating) and also my ocular rosacea almost entirely disappeared while my baseline redness went down around 70%. My chronic dryness (which I have had since I went on Roaccutane 18 years ago) did not improve. But for the first time since I first got Rosacea/SD in 2000, I had the condition under control.

    I actually had my life back and this lasted until 2019 when around a year ago my dermatologist worked a plan with me to take me off my Minocyline and Citalopram. At first things were okay, but by October/November things had deteriorated badly and the baseline redness had gone very bad, my ocular rosacea was back, and I was severely flushing to all kinds of things, particularly food.

    Since then I’ve managed to improve my baseline redness a bit, but flushing has not improved at all.

    For the last 3 months I have been on a TCM regime with a Chinese TCM practitioner aimed at treating my Rosacea and the Flushing with Chinese Herbal drinks, as well as Acupuncture (which I had to stop because of this damn lockdown).

    So I guess what I am trying to say in a long, roundabout way is that I managed to work out a diet that I didn’t trigger to. Yet now I am reacting even to foods, like all meats, that I wasn’t before. Basically only fruit and vegetables I don’t react to.

    It’s no problem me cutting out all Carbs, I’ve basically been doing that for the last 4 years anyway. The problem is that I am reacting to pretty much everything else too. Also, the only way

    I could prevent not getting massively under-weight was by eating lots of meat, which I now can’t really do.

    Two points/questions...

    1.I was told by my dietician that natural sugar from fruit is fine and doesn’t really count as an inflammatory like Carbohradrates or Unnatural added sugar does. I have no problem with it. Is there any fruit that you consider okay to eat?

    2. That link you provided to the lists of treatments to avoid flushing doesn’t work…could you send the correct link please?

    Thank you so much

    And thanks Antwantsclear too. I read the link you sent, and many of those things are what I implemented after seeing my dietician and they really helped between 2016 and 2019.

    And noted regarded the supplements. I’ve also been recommended Oral Colostrum to stop/minimise flushing from food

    Carl
    I think the Integrative Therapeutics Similase GFCF is a particularly high quality supplement - it was recommended to me by a dermatologist, Dr Alan Dattner, who specialised in holistic approaches to dermatology. I think he may have fully retired now but if you're interested in a non medicine approach he may still be doing remote consultations.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    You seem to have gone through it all, and understand rosacea triggers well, and diet. I 'feel for you.' Wish I could fix your issues. All I can be is empathetic.

    The link for the flushing avoidance treatments.

    In my Rosacea Diet I list the fruits that are lowest in sugar content. Here is the list:

    acerola, apricots, avocados, kumquat, lemon, lime, grapefruits, plums, prune

    You may have a free ebook copy if you join the RRDi. Just ask for it during the registration process and I will email it to you.

    Brady






    Quote Originally Posted by since2000 View Post
    Hi Brady, thanks again for your detailed reply.

    Re: the rebound. My dermatologist thinks that coming off the Minocyline and Citalopram and then returning may have caused H Pylori bacteria, so I’ll be having a test there next week. But

    I think it’s safe to say that my condition and flushing worsening was down to coming off the meds.

    Re: long term effects of taking the meds. This is why I tried to come off them last year. I have been on various oral meds for the best part of 20 years and hoped that the dietary changes that I made in 2016 which brought about a big improvement in my Rosacea/SD and eliminated most of my flushing would make my oral meds unnecessary. Unfortunately I paid the price for this assumption. Like most sufferers, there’s no point me thinking about the possible side effects years down the line when I will have no life at all unless I get this under control again.

    So that’s why I will have to settle with meds.

    Re: diet… I should point out that in 2016 I started seeing one of the UK’s top dieticians/natural health specialists. She completely overhauled my diet. As well as the numerous Rosacea triggers (most of which are on the trigger list antwantsclear posted below) which I was already avoiding, she put me on a Gluten Free and Dairy Free diet, as well as a very very Carb restricted diet. She also put me on a list of supplements to fight my Rosacea/support Gut health, including G.I Revive supplement, a probiotic, Vitamin D spray, Fish Oil, Aloe Vera juice, and other dietary additions such as bone broth, stewed apple. I ate lots of meat, very little carbs (as it gives me Acne)

    Within a few months of following this diet, my flushing (from food, from heat, hot baths, air conditioning, central heating) and also my ocular rosacea almost entirely disappeared while my baseline redness went down around 70%. My chronic dryness (which I have had since I went on Roaccutane 18 years ago) did not improve. But for the first time since I first got Rosacea/SD in 2000, I had the condition under control.

    I actually had my life back and this lasted until 2019 when around a year ago my dermatologist worked a plan with me to take me off my Minocyline and Citalopram. At first things were okay, but by October/November things had deteriorated badly and the baseline redness had gone very bad, my ocular rosacea was back, and I was severely flushing to all kinds of things, particularly food.

    Since then I’ve managed to improve my baseline redness a bit, but flushing has not improved at all.

    For the last 3 months I have been on a TCM regime with a Chinese TCM practitioner aimed at treating my Rosacea and the Flushing with Chinese Herbal drinks, as well as Acupuncture (which I had to stop because of this damn lockdown).

    So I guess what I am trying to say in a long, roundabout way is that I managed to work out a diet that I didn’t trigger to. Yet now I am reacting even to foods, like all meats, that I wasn’t before. Basically only fruit and vegetables I don’t react to.

    It’s no problem me cutting out all Carbs, I’ve basically been doing that for the last 4 years anyway. The problem is that I am reacting to pretty much everything else too. Also, the only way

    I could prevent not getting massively under-weight was by eating lots of meat, which I now can’t really do.

    Two points/questions...

    1.I was told by my dietician that natural sugar from fruit is fine and doesn’t really count as an inflammatory like Carbohradrates or Unnatural added sugar does. I have no problem with it. Is there any fruit that you consider okay to eat?

    2. That link you provided to the lists of treatments to avoid flushing doesn’t work…could you send the correct link please?

    Thank you so much

    And thanks Antwantsclear too. I read the link you sent, and many of those things are what I implemented after seeing my dietician and they really helped between 2016 and 2019.

    And noted regarded the supplements. I’ve also been recommended Oral Colostrum to stop/minimise flushing from food

    Carl
    Brady Barrows
    Blog - Join the RRDi



  9. #9
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    Thank you Antwantsclear. Sounds interesting re: Integrative Therapeutics Similase GFCF ... does it only help with regards to Gluten and Dairy or does it also help with (all) other foods too? And how do you find it helps? Does it specifically help with flushing to food? Or just your Rosacea in general?

    And Thanks Brady also for your words and kind help again. I've registered on RRDI - just waiting for the email to be received so I can complete it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since2000 View Post
    And Thanks Brady also for your words and kind help again. I've registered on RRDI - just waiting for the email to be received so I can complete it.
    Check your spam/junk folder.
    Brady Barrows
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