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Thread: I think I found the problem! Pics included

  1. #11
    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capture531 View Post
    Are you suggesting that ivermectin does not kill the mites at all? That they simply dont like it and migrate to other areas?
    Ivermectin is 'used to treat many types of parasite infestations' and the logical conclusion is it kills demodex mites. However, if you try to find any clinical papers substantiating this with some real data showing dead mites you will be hard pressed to find it. But is seems logical that these mites are killed with ivermectin. What antwantsclear is pointing out is that the mites move at 'at a speed of 8-16 mm/h' which you can learn about here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    There are still some doctors who are not keeping up with demodectic rosacea which has a history of controversy behind it (scroll down to the subheading 'The History of the Demodex Controversy' in this article). The evidence is now overwhelming that demodectic rosacea is a rosacea variant. The NRS, the AARS, the ARSC, and the ADD do not recognize demodectic rosacea as a rosacea variant [what is a variant?], therefore, only the RRDi recognizes it. Not all rosacea is demodectic, but a significant number of rosacea sufferers respond to treatment for demodex mites.
    I actually came across a cheaper form of soolantra. Amex Pharmacy is a compounding pharmacy based out of Florida that formulates unique perscriptions with an rx from your doctor. They formulate a 15% azelaic acid, 1% metronidazole, and 1% Soolantra together in one 30g tube for 59 dollars. They ship to 44 states. They are also accredited and pharmacists compound the medication. This seems like a good approach to tackle die off symptoms from the soolantra. And a cheaper option. I called and spoke to the pharmacist and he said you just need an Rx from the derm.

  3. #13
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    Ivermectin does clear up mites on your face (although there are concerns you can become immune over time to ivermectin and Soolantra only has a low dose of it). The greater and more immediate concern is that if you kill mites on your face but not on your scalp, the scalp mites just migrate on to your face - think how close your ears and nose are to your hair! So you better treat your hair if you want to have any impact on the mites...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    Ivermectin does clear up mites on your face (although there are concerns you can become immune over time to ivermectin and Soolantra only has a low dose of it). The greater and more immediate concern is that if you kill mites on your face but not on your scalp, the scalp mites just migrate on to your face - think how close your ears and nose are to your hair! So you better treat your hair if you want to have any impact on the mites...
    So would you use a tea tree shampoo? Im kind of curious how it would even get down in the follicle to reach them though? Its almost like you would need a leave on treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    Ivermectin is 'used to treat many types of parasite infestations' and the logical conclusion is it kills demodex mites. However, if you try to find any clinical papers substantiating this with some real data showing dead mites you will be hard pressed to find it. But is seems logical that these mites are killed with ivermectin. What antwantsclear is pointing out is that the mites move at 'at a speed of 8-16 mm/h' which you can learn about here.
    So I actually did a little research that some might be interested in as far as kill times of demodex. The mechanism by which Ivermectin actually kills mites is that it interferes with their GABA neurotransmitter, which essentially paralyzes them. This in turn kills them. You can read about that here:

    http://www.ahdbonline.com/payer-pers...dr-zoe-draelos

    Like Brady mentioned there aren't really any clinical papers with data showing dead mites in relation to Ivermectin in vitro. I have found a couple studies that test 10% povidone-iodine, 75% alcohol, 50% baby shampoo, and 4% pilocarpine and varying degrees of tea tree oil. Demodex folliculorum survived for more than 150 minutes in 10% povidone-iodine, 75% alcohol, 50% baby shampoo, and 4% pilocarpine. However, the survival time was significantly shortened to within 15 minutes in 100% alcohol, 100% TTO, 100% caraway oil, or 100% dill weed oil. TTO's in vitro killing effect was dose dependent. You can read about that here:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16234455

    Terpinen-4-ol is the main component of tea tree oil that affects demodex and has been shown to be effective at 1% compared to the higher doses of tea tree oil needed (which can cause irritation). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3860352/ This component can be found in commercial Cliradex products. There is also a study comparing Cliradex to Avenova HOCL solution. T40 took 40 minutes. HOCL was no more effective than mineral oil and 79% of mites were alive after 90 minutes.

    I recently prepared a slide with demodex mites that I obtained from myself (I seem to have a lot!) and tested 1% Ivermectin on them. I have a tube of Soolantra. Demodex can't live for very long off of their host but in the above studies they have survived for up to at least 150 minutes on a slide. I experimented with 2 mites. I applied the Soolantra directly to the first sample under the microscope and let the other demodex alone to just go about its merry way. Kill time in demodex is basically defined as the cessation of movement of the body, legs, and mouth. All of this is very visible if I use 250X magnification. The first demodex was unable to remove itself from the Ivermectin and died in about 25-30 minutes. The second demodex mite actually made its way over to the Ivermectin, became trapped and died in about 30 minutes. I have tested other solutions such as Briotech HOCL spray and alcohol. The mites continued to move freely and didn't die. There is some speculation that Ivermectin works because it is anti-inflammatory. My dermatologist mentioned that very little product from topicals can penetrate the hair follicle to where the mites actually reside. However, if applied at night my only assumption is that it could have an effect when they emerge from follicles to reproduce lol which is just lovely.

    Anyway...that's my science project for today
    I will update this thread with any other solutions that I decide to try.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capture531 View Post
    So I actually did a little research that some might be interested in as far as kill times of demodex. The mechanism by which Ivermectin actually kills mites is that it interferes with their GABA neurotransmitter, which essentially paralyzes them. This in turn kills them. You can read about that here:

    http://www.ahdbonline.com/payer-pers...dr-zoe-draelos

    Like Brady mentioned there aren't really any clinical papers with data showing dead mites in relation to Ivermectin in vitro. I have found a couple studies that test 10% povidone-iodine, 75% alcohol, 50% baby shampoo, and 4% pilocarpine and varying degrees of tea tree oil. Demodex folliculorum survived for more than 150 minutes in 10% povidone-iodine, 75% alcohol, 50% baby shampoo, and 4% pilocarpine. However, the survival time was significantly shortened to within 15 minutes in 100% alcohol, 100% TTO, 100% caraway oil, or 100% dill weed oil. TTO's in vitro killing effect was dose dependent. You can read about that here:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16234455

    Terpinen-4-ol is the main component of tea tree oil that affects demodex and has been shown to be effective at 1% compared to the higher doses of tea tree oil needed (which can cause irritation). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3860352/ This component can be found in commercial Cliradex products. There is also a study comparing Cliradex to Avenova HOCL solution. T40 took 40 minutes. HOCL was no more effective than mineral oil and 79% of mites were alive after 90 minutes.

    I recently prepared a slide with demodex mites that I obtained from myself (I seem to have a lot!) and tested 1% Ivermectin on them. I have a tube of Soolantra. Demodex can't live for very long off of their host but in the above studies they have survived for up to at least 150 minutes on a slide. I experimented with 2 mites. I applied the Soolantra directly to the first sample under the microscope and let the other demodex alone to just go about its merry way. Kill time in demodex is basically defined as the cessation of movement of the body, legs, and mouth. All of this is very visible if I use 250X magnification. The first demodex was unable to remove itself from the Ivermectin and died in about 25-30 minutes. The second demodex mite actually made its way over to the Ivermectin, became trapped and died in about 30 minutes. I have tested other solutions such as Briotech HOCL spray and alcohol. The mites continued to move freely and didn't die. There is some speculation that Ivermectin works because it is anti-inflammatory. My dermatologist mentioned that very little product from topicals can penetrate the hair follicle to where the mites actually reside. However, if applied at night my only assumption is that it could have an effect when they emerge from follicles to reproduce lol which is just lovely.

    Anyway...that's my science project for today
    I will update this thread with any other solutions that I decide to try.
    Nice project well done ���� so in theory applying soolantra in the day is a waste of time.
    I’m on week 11 and have broken out a bit this week . I only apply it at night but all over .
    Surely these buggers should dead by now. ��
    Last edited by Rubydo1; 15th November 2019 at 05:53 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capture531 View Post
    So would you use a tea tree shampoo? Im kind of curious how it would even get down in the follicle to reach them though? Its almost like you would need a leave on treatment.
    You will be lucky to get rid of every single demodex mite. But using a tea tree oil shampoo, maybe 2-3 times a week will reduce the scalp population significantly in my experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    You will be lucky to get rid of every single demodex mite. But using a tea tree oil shampoo, maybe 2-3 times a week will reduce the scalp population significantly in my experience.
    Yeah I use a tea tree shampoo have done for months

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    You will be lucky to get rid of every single demodex mite. But using a tea tree oil shampoo, maybe 2-3 times a week will reduce the scalp population significantly in my experience.
    Gotcha! Is there a good one you would suggest?

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