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Thread: Dr Chu Retirement

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    I will also be going to see Dr Charakida soon and so am interested if anyone has any experience of being treated by her?
    Hi Ant, I am going to see her in February. Slightly nervous about seeing someone new, but Prof Chu says she is good. Keep me posted on your visit to see her and what you think.

    How is your rosacea at the moment? I am getting more permanent redness and blotches. the veins are now visible. G

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginaisred View Post
    Hi Ant, I am going to see her in February. Slightly nervous about seeing someone new, but Prof Chu says she is good. Keep me posted on your visit to see her and what you think.

    How is your rosacea at the moment? I am getting more permanent redness and blotches. the veins are now visible. G
    Hi Gina

    Have you tried Zhongzhou cream (available at www.demodex.co.uk)? I would say Prof Chu had the best understanding of the medications for rosascea of any dermatologist in the UK. However, he probably didn't discuss topical, dietary and psychological approaches to treatment as much as some of the best younger dermatologists who treat rosacea. I really wish he'd recommended Zhoungzhou cream when I first wen to see him! Unfortunately he doesn't believe in the demodex mite theory (but active researchers in rosacea like Professor Powell in Ireland do, so we should take treating demodex mites very seriously). You can see, for example, from Judy's recent experience trying Zhongzhou cream on the forum how much benefit it can give for redness, and reducing the appearance of veins (much more safely than lasers/IPL).

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    Hi Gina

    Have you tried Zhongzhou cream (available at www.demodex.co.uk)? I would say Prof Chu had the best understanding of the medications for rosascea of any dermatologist in the UK. However, he probably didn't discuss topical, dietary and psychological approaches to treatment as much as some of the best younger dermatologists who treat rosacea. I really wish he'd recommended Zhoungzhou cream when I first wen to see him! Unfortunately he doesn't believe in the demodex mite theory (but active researchers in rosacea like Professor Powell in Ireland do, so we should take treating demodex mites very seriously). You can see, for example, from Judy's recent experience trying Zhongzhou cream on the forum how much benefit it can give for redness, and reducing the appearance of veins (much more safely than lasers/IPL).
    Hi ant

    No I've never used it. I quite like soolantra. It's been good at reducing bumps. The meds help the flushing somewhat but they're not perfect. I still flush a lot.

    I'll ask her about that cream though. Thanks for letting me know.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginaisred View Post
    Hi ant

    No I've never used it. I quite like soolantra. It's been good at reducing bumps. The meds help the flushing somewhat but they're not perfect. I still flush a lot.

    I'll ask her about that cream though. Thanks for letting me know.
    I used Soolantra initially and it was a little helpful, but I've found Zhongzhou cream a lot more helpful. I'm not sure any dermatologists recommend Zhongzhou cream (you just buy it online), but it is worth trying. I just wish I had tried it earlier (even with the various medications that Prof Chu recommends).

  5. #15
    Senior Member mirradodga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    Hi Gina

    Have you tried Zhongzhou cream (available at www.demodex.co.uk)? I would say Prof Chu had the best understanding of the medications for rosascea of any dermatologist in the UK. However, he probably didn't discuss topical, dietary and psychological approaches to treatment as much as some of the best younger dermatologists who treat rosacea. I really wish he'd recommended Zhoungzhou cream when I first wen to see him! Unfortunately he doesn't believe in the demodex mite theory (but active researchers in rosacea like Professor Powell in Ireland do, so we should take treating demodex mites very seriously). You can see, for example, from Judy's recent experience trying Zhongzhou cream on the forum how much benefit it can give for redness, and reducing the appearance of veins (much more safely than lasers/IPL).
    Hi Antwantsclear

    Are you saying that ZZ cream can actually treat facial broken threadveins by breaking them down to athropy and back into the bloodstream OR it just diminshes the look of them i.e a camoflauge much like a liquid foundation ?
    Thanks
    MD

  6. #16
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    I have been using ZZ cream since 2013, although I briefly dabbled in it a year or two prior.

    I am a severe flusher beyond the scope of what is thought to be 'rosacea'.
    I have managed to rein it in over the years and along with diet, supplements, Ice packs, ZZ cream has been a major contributor to my improvement.

    It did indeed help reduce my redness, but using lots of it, increased my redness.
    There certainly seems to be a fine line between enough and too much.
    Having said that when my flushing was extreme, I used ZZ cream to dry out my skin like an old leather boot, so that the superficial veins and capillaries on my face could not as easily dilate.
    I was flashing on and off like a neon sign prior to that and by physically reining in the ability of this process, the receptors which induce flushing must have been able to down regulate. (In conjunction with the rest of my regime).

    Baseline redness, reduced a lot. Much of my face is now pale. That is a considerable improvement considering back in the day I could have got a job at the port as a beacon, warning ships off the rocks. (During flushing and swelling).

    When I started to mix it with my topical niacinamide gel, further improvements were achieved rather quickly.

    Telangietasia.
    ZZ Cream did not cause these to vanish.
    However, those which lay just beneath the surface of the skin and become more prominent with flushing, did eventually become far less visible, but it took years.
    Very pleasing results however.

    But those which sit right on the surface. Those which were caused by my severe adverse rebound reactions to topical brimonidine and then oral metronizadole, did not reduce.
    In addition, when I foolishly took an oral vitamin A supplement for a period of time around late 2016, telangiectasia grew here and there like weeds including around my nostrils.
    These have failed to reduce at all despite spot applications of ZZ cream.

    I rarely get breakouts these days, but if I change my diet or ingest something known to interact with the TRPV receptors, I will develop them and if apply ZZ Cream thickly and several times per day, I am usually, but not always able to prevent more telangiectasia from developing.
    I often apply a daub of Hydrogen peroxide first.

    I suspect ZZ cream works by modifying nerve function in addition to any anti demodex/microbial action it has.
    Initially it seemed to increase my potential for flushing. Especially when exposed to heat and that fits in with the way menthol works. Menthol reduces the threshold to heat tolerance according to some articles I have read.

    ZZ cream used to have a different consistency and I used it alone.
    Then in 2014, when I made another purchase it had changed and I was horrified to see it dried like poster paint on my face.
    At that point I started mixing it with niacinamide gel and it worked well. Far better than the old version used alone.
    I feel confident in saying that these two products work synergistically and the results for me have been superior to using ZZ cream alone.

    I would advise any rosacean or flusher to give ZZ Cream a whirl and if necessary mix it with a topical you can tolerate.
    Keeping in mind that dietary modification, supplements and the avoidance of excessive heat, and cooling the face down quickly when heated are necessary.
    Last edited by Mistica; 6th January 2020 at 10:17 AM.
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

  7. #17
    Senior Member mirradodga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistica View Post
    I have been using ZZ cream since 2013, although I briefly dabbled in it a year or two prior.

    I am a severe flusher beyond the scope of what is thought to be 'rosacea'.
    I have managed to rein it in over the years and along with diet, supplements, Ice packs, ZZ cream has been a major contributor to my improvement.

    It did indeed help reduce my redness, but using lots of it, increased my redness.
    There certainly seems to be a fine line between enough and too much.
    Having said that when my flushing was extreme, I used ZZ cream to dry out my skin like an old leather boot, so that the superficial veins and capillaries on my face could not as easily dilate.
    I was flashing on and off like a neon sign prior to that and by physically reining in the ability of this process, the receptors which induce flushing must have been able to down regulate. (In conjunction with the rest of my regime).

    Baseline redness, reduced a lot. Much of my face is now pale. That is a considerable improvement considering back in the day I could have got a job at the port as a beacon, warning ships off the rocks. (During flushing and swelling).

    When I started to mix it with my topical niacinamide gel, further improvements were achieved rather quickly.

    Telangietasia.
    ZZ Cream did not cause these to vanish.
    However, those which lay just beneath the surface of the skin and become more prominent with flushing, did eventually become far less visible, but it took years.
    Very pleasing results however.

    But those which sit right on the surface. Those which were caused by my severe adverse rebound reactions to topical brimonidine and then oral metronizadole, did not reduce.
    In addition, when I foolishly took an oral vitamin A supplement for a period of time around late 2016, telangiectasia grew here and there like weeds including around my nostrils.
    These have failed to reduce at all despite spot applications of ZZ cream.

    I rarely get breakouts these days, but if I change my diet or ingest something known to interact with the TRPV receptors, I will develop them and if apply ZZ Cream thickly and several times per day, I am usually, but not always able to prevent more telangiectasia from developing.
    I often apply a daub of Hydrogen peroxide first.

    I suspect ZZ cream works by modifying nerve function in addition to any anti demodex/microbial action it has.
    Initially it seemed to increase my potential for flushing. Especially when exposed to heat and that fits in with the way menthol works. Menthol reduces the threshold to heat tolerance according to some articles I have read.

    ZZ cream used to have a different consistency and I used it alone.
    Then in 2014, when I made another purchase it had changed and I was horrified to see it dried like poster paint on my face.
    At that point I started mixing it with niacinamide gel and it worked well. Far better than the old version used alone.
    I feel confident in saying that these two products work synergistically and the results for me have been superior to using ZZ cream alone.

    I would advise any rosacean or flusher to give ZZ Cream a whirl and if necessary mix it with a topical you can tolerate.
    Keeping in mind that dietary modification, supplements and the avoidance of excessive heat, and cooling the face down quickly when heated are necessary.
    Wow Mistica, that is very helpful and I always note you to give an honest review. I think I am going to try ZZ cream amd mix it with a little non-comedegenic moisturisor and see how it goes

    Thanks again
    MD

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistica View Post
    I have been using ZZ cream since 2013, although I briefly dabbled in it a year or two prior.

    I am a severe flusher beyond the scope of what is thought to be 'rosacea'.
    I have managed to rein it in over the years and along with diet, supplements, Ice packs, ZZ cream has been a major contributor to my improvement.

    It did indeed help reduce my redness, but using lots of it, increased my redness.
    There certainly seems to be a fine line between enough and too much.
    Having said that when my flushing was extreme, I used ZZ cream to dry out my skin like an old leather boot, so that the superficial veins and capillaries on my face could not as easily dilate.
    I was flashing on and off like a neon sign prior to that and by physically reining in the ability of this process, the receptors which induce flushing must have been able to down regulate. (In conjunction with the rest of my regime).

    Baseline redness, reduced a lot. Much of my face is now pale. That is a considerable improvement considering back in the day I could have got a job at the port as a beacon, warning ships off the rocks. (During flushing and swelling).

    When I started to mix it with my topical niacinamide gel, further improvements were achieved rather quickly.

    Telangietasia.
    ZZ Cream did not cause these to vanish.
    However, those which lay just beneath the surface of the skin and become more prominent with flushing, did eventually become far less visible, but it took years.
    Very pleasing results however.

    But those which sit right on the surface. Those which were caused by my severe adverse rebound reactions to topical brimonidine and then oral metronizadole, did not reduce.
    In addition, when I foolishly took an oral vitamin A supplement for a period of time around late 2016, telangiectasia grew here and there like weeds including around my nostrils.
    These have failed to reduce at all despite spot applications of ZZ cream.

    I rarely get breakouts these days, but if I change my diet or ingest something known to interact with the TRPV receptors, I will develop them and if apply ZZ Cream thickly and several times per day, I am usually, but not always able to prevent more telangiectasia from developing.
    I often apply a daub of Hydrogen peroxide first.

    I suspect ZZ cream works by modifying nerve function in addition to any anti demodex/microbial action it has.
    Initially it seemed to increase my potential for flushing. Especially when exposed to heat and that fits in with the way menthol works. Menthol reduces the threshold to heat tolerance according to some articles I have read.

    ZZ cream used to have a different consistency and I used it alone.
    Then in 2014, when I made another purchase it had changed and I was horrified to see it dried like poster paint on my face.
    At that point I started mixing it with niacinamide gel and it worked well. Far better than the old version used alone.
    I feel confident in saying that these two products work synergistically and the results for me have been superior to using ZZ cream alone.

    I would advise any rosacean or flusher to give ZZ Cream a whirl and if necessary mix it with a topical you can tolerate.
    Keeping in mind that dietary modification, supplements and the avoidance of excessive heat, and cooling the face down quickly when heated are necessary.
    Excellent review this is what we need great reviews of long term rosacea suffers.

    Which niacinamide gel ?

    I am struggling with the zz cream big time......although it’s helping with the spots.

    My face and skin is beginning to flake and dry out with the zz cream and I’m using it 50/50

    with distilled water. And I’m only using it at night. Flakes are coming off and skin seems to

    be splitting in fine cracks.


    My skin is dry all over my body I’m still trying to work out vitamins as I struggle with diet as I’m on lowfodmaps at the moment and my stomach reacts to a lot of things .
    I’m just taking this multivitamin
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Multivitami...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
    And this probiotic
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bio-Culture...dDbGljaz10cnVl
    Can I ask what diet changes you have made ?
    My skin itches and burns .
    Last edited by Rubydo1; 6th January 2020 at 12:27 PM.

  9. #19
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    I don't use a multivitamin because some vitamins cause me to flush e.g. Vitamin C. I use individual supplements that are very helpful with flushing and redness e.g. Solgar MSM and Integrative Therapeutics GFCF (imported from US).

    I concur with what Mistica says about the practical impact of ZZ on type 1 redness - it gradually reduces redness and the appearance of veins (and this process can be multiplied using diet, anti-flushing medications etc). Zhongzhou cream reduces demodex mites hence reduces the redness - a lot of people still seem to think that demodex mites only cause the lumps and bumps and associated redness, but the latest research and my and other people's experience on the forum is that they also impact type 1 rosacea (e.g. on the ears where I have never had any pustules or papules). You're right that you have to manage the drying effect, by applying a very light layer with a watery finger, or it can be too drying. I think combining it with some kind of moisturising element is very helpful - I use Skinceuticals Epidermal Repair cream as I'm intolerant to every moisturiser - for me using the two products combined gives me the best benefits from the ZZ cream (and this cream never causes me pustules or papules unlike every moisturiser I've tried).

    (Also avoiding getting chlorinated tap water on your rosacea areas will reduce dryness a lot - was a big breakthrough for me only using mineral water on those areas.)

    I'm also interested in the n. gel mentioned? There is a brand available of it from the Ordinary - but perhaps there is a better one for rosacea? Have you looked at the erythromelalgia literature - they also have some interesting ideas for managing extreme flushing?
    Last edited by antwantsclear; 6th January 2020 at 01:16 PM.

  10. #20
    Senior Member mirradodga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    I don't use a multivitamin because some vitamins cause me to flush e.g. Vitamin C. I use individual supplements that are very helpful with flushing and redness e.g. Solgar MSM and Integrative Therapeutics GFCF (imported from US).

    I concur with what Mistica says about the practical impact of ZZ on type 1 redness - it gradually reduces redness and the appearance of veins (and this process can be multiplied using diet, anti-flushing medications etc). Zhongzhou cream reduces demodex mites hence reduces the redness - a lot of people still seem to think that demodex mites only cause the lumps and bumps and associated redness, but the latest research and my and other people's experience on the forum is that they also impact type 1 rosacea (e.g. on the ears where I have never had any pustules or papules). You're right that you have to manage the drying effect, by applying a very light layer with a watery finger, or it can be too drying. I think combining it with some kind of moisturising element is very helpful - I use Skinceuticals Epidermal Repair cream as I'm intolerant to every moisturiser - for me using the two products combined gives me the best benefits from the ZZ cream (and this cream never causes me pustules or papules unlike every moisturiser I've tried).

    (Also avoiding getting chlorinated tap water on your rosacea areas will reduce dryness a lot - was a big breakthrough for me only using mineral water on those areas.)

    I'm also interested in the n. gel mentioned? There is a brand available of it from the Ordinary - but perhaps there is a better one for rosacea? Have you looked at the erythromelalgia literature - they also have some interesting ideas for managing extreme flushing?
    Hi Antwantsclear
    Can I ask how long Skinceuticals Epidermal Repair cream lasts as it seems expensive, would you say a couple of months or so ?
    Thanks
    MD

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