Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Facial psoriasis overlapping with rosacea

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    59
    Country: UK

    Default Facial psoriasis overlapping with rosacea

    Hi

    I was wondering does anyone else have facial psoriasis that overlaps with their rosacea and rhinophyma? if so has anyone had any luck treating both? Thanks.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Honolulu, HI, USA
    Posts
    4,738

    Default

    In all my years of investigating rosacea, psoriasis hasn't come up often as a co-existing condition with rosacea, nor is it listed in a differential diagnosis of rosacea. I googled it and this is the first result of interest. Medical News Today explains the difference.

    Maybe I am missing something, and would appreciate it if someone can point out papers indicating psoriasis is somehow related as a co-existing condition or should be differentiated.

    Dan3dwards, are you diagnosed with psoriasis, rosacea and phenotype 5 by a physician?

    What treatments are you using?
    Brady Barrows
    Join the RRDi

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    59
    Country: UK

    Default

    Hi Brady,

    Thank you so much for your reply. Sadly I do have all 3 disease I have swelling and large pores and I was briefly on low dose accutane in 2017 to treat the swelling nose but it didnít seem to work so I stopped.

    I have seen 5 dermatologists over the last 4 years and confirmed I have sebo psoriasis and rosacea. Basically I have a red swollen nose with pustules in the Centre which into psoriasis plagues as you get to Side of the nose and tip. Most of my forehead and scalp are covered in psoriasis as wells as my back, arms legs and genitals (this is a form of psoriasis) The Dermatologists have not seen anything quite like it before so I appear to be unique.

    Last year in a hope to get my psoriasis and Crohnís disease under control I had stem cell treatment in a very reputable clinic in Panama they have had some degree of success of treating Crohns and psoriasis and have published papers.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    59
    Country: UK

    Default

    Sorry forgot to list my treatments.

    I have tried.

    Doxycycline - worked at the initial stages lost it effectiveness
    Low dose Accutane - sadly didnít work
    Red light therapy - sadly didnít work
    Lutein - didnít really find it makes a difference
    Rifaxmin - for sibo sadly this didnít really work either
    Soolatanra - really irritated my skin
    Zz cream - also really irritated my skin
    I have also used uvb light for my psoriasis as well as a number of creams and made no difference.

    Currently at the moment I am taking low dose doxy, queceretin, vitamin C, HCL supplements and digestive enzymes as I have Chronic SIBO due to removal of my ileocecal valve that was structured with Crohnís disease.

    I am also using gladskin gel, face cure and kefir mask everyday.

    I personally think is is where my issues are stemming from. I have recently just come of methotrexate for my psoriasis as It made no difference. My dermatologist wants to try Stelara which is IL 12 and IL 22 antagonist and should help to reduce IL 17 inflammation. I understand SIBO and Crohns is a comorbidity of both rosacea and psoriasis, hence the possible reason I have both. Interestingly I have very low butyrate producing bacteria in my colon and also I have chronic blastocystis homminis infection, which I have read in one paper is linked with severe psoriasis, (although it is debatable whether blastocystis is a pathogen according to some Drs)

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan3dwards View Post
    Sorry forgot to list my treatments.

    I have tried.

    Doxycycline - worked at the initial stages lost it effectiveness
    Low dose Accutane - sadly didn’t work
    Red light therapy - sadly didn’t work
    Lutein - didn’t really find it makes a difference
    Rifaxmin - for sibo sadly this didn’t really work either
    Soolatanra - really irritated my skin
    Zz cream - also really irritated my skin
    I have also used uvb light for my psoriasis as well as a number of creams and made no difference.

    Currently at the moment I am taking low dose doxy, queceretin, vitamin C, HCL supplements and digestive enzymes as I have Chronic SIBO due to removal of my ileocecal valve that was structured with Crohn’s disease.

    I am also using gladskin gel, face cure and kefir mask everyday.

    I personally think is is where my issues are stemming from. I have recently just come of methotrexate for my psoriasis as It made no difference. My dermatologist wants to try Stelara which is IL 12 and IL 22 antagonist and should help to reduce IL 17 inflammation. I understand SIBO and Crohns is a comorbidity of both rosacea and psoriasis, hence the possible reason I have both. Interestingly I have very low butyrate producing bacteria in my colon and also I have chronic blastocystis homminis infection, which I have read in one paper is linked with severe psoriasis, (although it is debatable whether blastocystis is a pathogen according to some Drs)
    I would be wary of accutane in relation to psoriasis, as accutane increases the speed at which skin cells overturn. Also I'd be wary of accutane in relation to Chrons disease, as there has been legal action against the original manufacturer of accutane regarding IBS etc as a side effect.

    The best things I've found for settling the microbiome is Symprove. I was also recommended a product called Wachters Sea Klenz with Phytoenzymes by a New York dermatologist with an interest in gut issues, and I find that helpful too.

    The same dermatologist also recommended I take Integrative Therapeutics Similase GFCF with food, and I think that's very helpful as well - hard to get in the UK, but you can order it from Storkz, an international distributor.

    Solgar MSM may also be helpful in reducing the redness and any pustules/papules on the nose.
    Last edited by antwantsclear; 13th August 2019 at 07:44 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Tom Busby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,482

    Default

    Hi Dan, have you tried topical Vitamin D, at 0.005%? Studies show it's effectiveness on psoriasis. The brand names are Vertical and Dovonex. Here's some more drug info: https://mms.mckesson.com/product/956...es-00299201210

    I've been using the same concentration of topical Vitamin D for 2 months and I've found that it removes excess keratin, with no side effects. I make my own lotions and shampoos.

    My opinion is that psoriasis and seb derm are related to each other, perhaps resulting from a malabsorption of Vitamin D in the gut system. Of course there's a large degree of difference between the 2 conditions, but it appears to me that excess keratin creates a skin environment where malassezia can thrive, which triggers (or can trigger) the allergic reaction we call seb derm.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    59
    Country: UK

    Default

    Hi Ant and Tom,

    Thank you both for writing and giving out some ideas of possible ways to tackle this.

    I can understand what you mean about accutane, but according to the derm who prescribed it apparently it should have helped the psoriasis and apparently back in the olden days they use to use high doses of vitamin A to treat psoriasis (until they found out about vitamin A toxicity). I think there is even a drug similar to accutane that they use for psoriasis but I forget the name.

    I actually forgot to mention that I am already taking symprove and have tried so many different probiotics, chuckling goat Kefir, Aflorex (a strain of b.infantis that has shown to have an effect of psoriasis), Megasporbiotics (I spoke to lady on a Facebook group and she said it resolved her SIBO and rosacea) Ozona Organics Liquid organics has one specifically for psoriasis and supposedly rosacea. I have to say I have tried so many and given them at least six months, but they seem to make very little difference.

    Interestingly about symprove are that the strains L.Rhamnosus and L.Plantarum are mast cell stablizers, I read a study about how ketotifen also mast cell stabiliser can reduce symptoms of IBS so I do wonder whether both ketotifen and symprove work on IBS in the same manner. Although recent research suggests the majority of IBS is SIBO and Dr Mark Pimentel and his team seem to have found the key strains of bacteria that are causing SIBO.

    Tom in regards to vitamin D I have tried supplementing and also have used Dovenex, enstiller foam and protopic (for facial area). The problem is my psoriasis is so wide spread feet, legs, private area, buttocks back arms scalp and ears and face that treatment with topicals doesn’t really work also I get new plaques in different areas all the time. I have tried light therapy but again it is really a subtle difference if any... I think the main issue is I have no skin barrier on my face anymore and I have tried so many creams to resolve this including face cure, skinucentials epidermal cream. I have been told I have more psoriasis then seb derm as there are clear outlines and raised skin with plaques; Although I know they do overlap, the problem is I avoid all sunlight on my face as I get very red within minutes and my nose is very swollen.

    Reading back on an old post from the early 2000’s on this forum it does seem very little progress has been made in the mechanics behind rosacea and the more medical literature I read I think we have a long way to go. When you can compare the mechanism behind psoriasis and rosacea. Psoriasis seems much more straightforward as they have isolated il 17a as the main culprit. However rosacea has il 17 and many other aspects involved TLR2 mmps, TRVP4 and cathelicidins... it seems like a complete cascade of wiring going wrong in the immune system. Sadly I think we will still be having the same discussions and theories about this in 15 years time. As reading all the medical trials there is almost no innovation happening in this area of medicine.
    Last edited by Dan3dwards; 14th August 2019 at 08:02 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan3dwards View Post
    Hi Ant and Tom,

    Thank you both for writing and giving out some ideas of possible ways to tackle this.

    I can understand what you mean about accutane, but according to the derm who prescribed it apparently it should have helped the psoriasis and apparently back in the olden days they use to use high doses of vitamin A to treat psoriasis (until they found out about vitamin A toxicity). I think there is even a drug similar to accutane that they use for psoriasis but I forget the name.

    I actually forgot to mention that I am already taking symprove and have tried so many different probiotics, chuckling goat Kefir, Aflorex (a strain of b.infantis that has shown to have an effect of psoriasis), Megasporbiotics (I spoke to lady on a Facebook group and she said it resolved her SIBO and rosacea) Ozona Organics Liquid organics has one specifically for psoriasis and supposedly rosacea. I have to say I have tried so many and given them at least six months, but they seem to make very little difference.

    Interestingly about symprove are that the strains L.Rhamnosus and L.Plantarum are mast cell stablizers, I read a study about how ketotifen also mast cell stabiliser can reduce symptoms of IBS so I do wonder whether both ketotifen and symprove work on IBS in the same manner. Although recent research suggests the majority of IBS is SIBO and Dr Mark Pimentel and his team seem to have found the key strains of bacteria that are causing SIBO.

    Tom in regards to vitamin D I have tried supplementing and also have used Dovenex, enstiller foam and protopic (for facial area). The problem is my psoriasis is so wide spread feet, legs, private area, buttocks back arms scalp and ears and face that treatment with topicals doesn’t really work also I get new plaques in different areas all the time. I have tried light therapy but again it is really a subtle difference if any... I think the main issue is I have no skin barrier on my face anymore and I have tried so many creams to resolve this including face cure, skinucentials epidermal cream. I have been told I have more psoriasis then seb derm as there are clear outlines and raised skin with plaques; Although I know they do overlap, the problem is I avoid all sunlight on my face as I get very red within minutes and my nose is very swollen.

    Reading back on an old post from the early 2000’s on this forum it does seem very little progress has been made in the mechanics behind rosacea and the more medical literature I read I think we have a long way to go. When you can compare the mechanism behind psoriasis and rosacea. Psoriasis seems much more straightforward as they have isolated il 17a as the main culprit. However rosacea has il 17 and many other aspects involved TLR2 mmps, TRVP4 and cathelicidins... it seems like a complete cascade of wiring going wrong in the immune system. Sadly I think we will still be having the same discussions and theories about this in 15 years time. As reading all the medical trials there is almost no innovation happening in this area of medicine.
    What is a typical day's diet for you? For me, changes to diet are more beneficial than probiotics/supplements etc and provide the most benefit. Supplements are only an adjunct or extra help. I find kefir makes my rosacea worse. I did find those various supplements mentioned above helped with the processing of foods, including small amounts of dairy and potatoes, that I was otherwise intolerant to.

    If you do have bad IBS or IBD symptoms I would be wary of accutane. Dermatologists are sometimes quite gung-ho with accutane despite its risks, though other dermatologists use it very sparingly.
    Last edited by antwantsclear; 14th August 2019 at 09:18 AM.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    59
    Country: UK

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    What is a typical day's diet for you? For me, changes to diet are more beneficial than probiotics/supplements etc and provide the most benefit. Supplements are only an adjunct or extra help. I find kefir makes my rosacea worse. I did find those various supplements mentioned above helped with the processing of foods, including small amounts of dairy and potatoes, that I was otherwise intolerant to.

    If you do have bad IBS or IBD symptoms I would be wary of accutane. Dermatologists are sometimes quite gung-ho with accutane despite its risks, though other dermatologists use it very sparingly.
    Hmm Good question, I havent been on accutane since January 2018, I didnt experience any crohns related problems whilst on it to be honest. My crohns as been quite good since my resection in 2009 (Although I think the resection and removal of my ileocecal valve is perhaps the root of this problem.) My diet consists of one meal a day (as I fast for the rest of day) which is normally like a chicken breast, kale, carrots and cucumber I stick to only low FODMAPs. Even eating this simply gives me gas and intermittent diarrhoea, I think the reason kefir makes my skin worse is the histamine issue.

    Something I found interesting though after going to the functional gut clinic in Manchester I had glucose breath test (I had previously had lactulose breath tests but these can give false readings for SIBO). The test was positive for SIBO so I decide to try an elemental diet using absorb plus vanilla unsweetened you can get this in the UK from Amrita nutrition. So I went on a strict diet of only the elemental diet for 3 months, during this period all of my psoriasis and rosacea pretty much cleared up. Bearing in mind this was in the middle of the winter (worse time for psoriasis) and also I live on the west coast of wales and was able to walk on windy beach and although my skin was a little red in the cold temperatures there were no pustules and it had improved about 90 percent.

    I think the most impressive aspect was the psoriasis had cleared up where all other treatments had failed. I understand other factors could be at play but I do find it interesting. I would suggest to anyone who does have sibo and rosacea to try the elemental diet (There are various forms of the liquid diet online) to see if it does help.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    826

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan3dwards View Post
    Hmm Good question, I havent been on accutane since January 2018, I didnt experience any crohns related problems whilst on it to be honest. My crohns as been quite good since my resection in 2009 (Although I think the resection and removal of my ileocecal valve is perhaps the root of this problem.) My diet consists of one meal a day (as I fast for the rest of day) which is normally like a chicken breast, kale, carrots and cucumber I stick to only low FODMAPs. Even eating this simply gives me gas and intermittent diarrhoea, I think the reason kefir makes my skin worse is the histamine issue.

    Something I found interesting though after going to the functional gut clinic in Manchester I had glucose breath test (I had previously had lactulose breath tests but these can give false readings for SIBO). The test was positive for SIBO so I decide to try an elemental diet using absorb plus vanilla unsweetened you can get this in the UK from Amrita nutrition. So I went on a strict diet of only the elemental diet for 3 months, during this period all of my psoriasis and rosacea pretty much cleared up. Bearing in mind this was in the middle of the winter (worse time for psoriasis) and also I live on the west coast of wales and was able to walk on windy beach and although my skin was a little red in the cold temperatures there were no pustules and it had improved about 90 percent.

    I think the most impressive aspect was the psoriasis had cleared up where all other treatments had failed. I understand other factors could be at play but I do find it interesting. I would suggest to anyone who does have sibo and rosacea to try the elemental diet (There are various forms of the liquid diet online) to see if it does help.
    Kale does cause intolerance in several autoimmune conditions - broccoli or rocket work better for me. I find kale doesn't help my rosacea. Do you eat any wheat or rice or dairy or sugar? The Wachters Seaklenz product mentioned above is very good for a regular digestion system, with neither constipation nor loose stools - I take a spoon in water in the morning. The Integrative therapeutics GFCF product reduces the effects of foods I'm intolerant to, so may help to give you a more similar situation to the liquid diet. The dermatologist who can advise best on these issues I think is Dr Alan Dattner - he actually gave me advice on exercising the i. valve, so is aware of its digestive function. He does skype consultations.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 18th June 2018, 11:52 PM
  2. Facial piercings with Rosacea
    By Jenn in forum General rosacea questions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 17th January 2009, 10:47 AM
  3. Rosacea, or just facial blushing?
    By baguiar in forum Newbie questions / Introduction
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 30th May 2008, 01:21 PM
  4. Extra-facial Rosacea?
    By Drummergirl in forum Similar and co-existing conditions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 18th May 2008, 10:53 PM
  5. Facial Flushing vs Facial Blushing
    By red47 in forum General rosacea questions
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 24th January 2007, 11:27 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •