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Thread: Subtype 1 is spreading: Is 22yo too young to consider laser?

  1. #1
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    Default Subtype 1 is spreading: Is 22yo too young to consider laser?

    I thought my subtype 1 (redness + flushing) wouldn't progress beyond my cheeks but it definitely has been expanding its surface. Noticing more redness (though it depends on the time of the day) on the side of my face too. I was planning to consider v-beam down the line, hoping 10-20+ years from now, but I'm wondering if it's best to start now.

    Just this week, maybe because I've been sick, I noticed another random red mark underneath my eye. My skin is very thin (I even have bags under my eye) so I guess it was just a matter of time for blood vessels to become visible beyond my cheek area. However, it looks very noticeable because it's separated from my cheeks and I'm thinking v-beam might need to be considered now.

    Is 22 too young to consider v-beam? I hate the idea that I'd have to do this consistently and the possibility of bruising, fat loss, marks, etc. Since my skin is so thin I do get the feeling that I'll be left with abnormal marks, especially if I do it annually for the rest of my life. Another question: How do you guys manage the bruising? I've seen some gnarly photos of bruising that people have for a few weeks. Do you take off work that long? I have a roommate and I definitely wouldn't want to be walking around my place like that. I could go home for a few weeks but even then there's bound to be people coming and going through my house and I know they would be super critical about it. It does look very strange..

    Would highly appreciate any advice. This forum is a gem and I'm glad I found it. I currently use Avar face wash, vanicream, beta blocker 1-3 times a week. Should I explore more options before considering laser? I've tried soolantra though also accompanied by rhofade which caused rebound redness, keto diet, some supplements. But I might keep trying other diets / supplements first. I have metrogel sitting around but haven't tried it because I read its mostly for inflamation.
    Last edited by tobyg; 25th April 2019 at 07:46 PM.

  2. #2
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    I would try a lot before laser:
    -Soolantra for some months
    -Climbazole for some months
    -sulphur mixed in cream as Sejon etc are doing
    -zz cream
    -oat groat

    Just anything before laser. And have patience. This is gonna be a rough journey, we all know. It’s like studying for the worst exam ever. In the beginning it seems hopeless, even seems hopeless before a few days is left, and then something just clicks and you understand everything. Now, everytime I go through something really horrible, I apply the knowledge I have gaines through studying for countless of these worst exams, its gonna click in the end. Just keep the faith up. You are allowed to be depressed, but never lose the will to try to figure out your case!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobyg View Post
    I thought my subtype 1 (redness + flushing) wouldn't progress beyond my cheeks but it definitely has been expanding its surface. Noticing more redness (though it depends on the time of the day) on the side of my face too. I was planning to consider v-beam down the line, hoping 10-20+ years from now, but I'm wondering if it's best to start now.

    Just this week, maybe because I've been sick, I noticed another random red mark underneath my eye. My skin is very thin (I even have bags under my eye) so I guess it was just a matter of time for blood vessels to become visible beyond my cheek area. However, it looks very noticeable because it's separated from my cheeks and I'm thinking v-beam might need to be considered now.

    Is 22 too young to consider v-beam? I hate the idea that I'd have to do this consistently and the possibility of bruising, fat loss, marks, etc. Since my skin is so thin I do get the feeling that I'll be left with abnormal marks, especially if I do it annually for the rest of my life. Another question: How do you guys manage the bruising? I've seen some gnarly photos of bruising that people have for a few weeks. Do you take off work that long? I have a roommate and I definitely wouldn't want to be walking around my place like that. I could go home for a few weeks but even then there's bound to be people coming and going through my house and I know they would be super critical about it. It does look very strange..

    Would highly appreciate any advice. This forum is a gem and I'm glad I found it. I currently use Avar face wash, vanicream, beta blocker 1-3 times a week. Should I explore more options before considering laser? I've tried soolantra though also accompanied by rhofade which caused rebound redness, keto diet, some supplements. But I might keep trying other diets / supplements first. I have metrogel sitting around but haven't tried it because I read its mostly for inflamation.
    Propranolol and other beta blockers (e.g. atenolol) were only of marginal benefit to me. Moxonodine (an alpha blocker) taken twice or three times a day worked a lot better. You often need a combination of medications to control moderate to severe redness and flushing, that is a blood pressure medication such as moxonodine and a anti-inflammatory medication (e.g. hydroxychloroquine or mirtazapine). But you certainly have a wide range of medications you can still try - just because one medication does not work for you does not mean others won't provide a significant benefit.

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    All the topicals (soolantra, metrogel, etc etc) seem to be solely geared toward subtype 2. Haven't seen any reports or solutions for persistent redness/flushing aside from laser :/

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    I have subtype-1, and only get «pimples» when demodex dies. I answered your PM

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobyg View Post
    All the topicals (soolantra, metrogel, etc etc) seem to be solely geared toward subtype 2. Haven't seen any reports or solutions for persistent redness/flushing aside from laser :/
    I don't think there is much benefit from Metrogel for redness and flushing. However, if you look through this forum there are plenty of people who have found benefit from Soolantra and Zhongzhou cream (for which you don't need a prescription) for type 1 rosacea. Initially, it was thought that demodex was more associated with type 2 rosacea - hence why it Soolantra was initially proposed for type 2 rosacea. However, now Professor Powell's latest research (the leading researcher on demodex mites, who leads a team in this area) has found a strong link between type 1 rosacea and the mites (e.g. a high population). From personal experience of rosacea on the ears (where you will rarely find people complaining of pustules and papules), Soolantra and Zhongzhou cream have been very helpful to me for type 1 rosacea. Zhongzhou cream can be ordered from Amazon, and for me was far more helpful than IPL or laser - I only wish I'd tried it earlier.

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    Hi Antwantsclear! Thanks for the tip of Soolantra + ZZ Cream together. Do you mind if I ask how you use these two (is it Soolantra in the morning and then ZZ Cream at night)? And do you find this works better than tea tree oil mask or any other anti-demodex treatment?

    TobyG - is there a reason you are considering Vbeam instead of IPL? I would strongly suggest you consider IPL. I don't think there is any studies or anecdotal evidence that vbeam is more effective for Subtype 1 than IPL. Also, most folks have very little down time on IPL (the next day my face was a little sensitive and that's about it). You might want to read this pamphlet for some very helpful info about Subtype 1 and IPL:

    https://rosacea-support.org/wp-conte...-Warm-Room.pdf

    Also I would suggest you consider Red Light therapy. You can do some searching on these forums and some say it was the best treatment they found. For me it did help a lot, I still use my red light every day. Here's an article about IPL + Red light together:

    https://rosacea-research.org/wiki/in...._Goldberg,_MD

    Cheers,
    Matt

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    In retrospect I wish I could have nipped this in the bud with Vbeam and topical tranexamic acid rather than experimenting with off-label uses of prescription medications that never provided more than symptomatic relief. Finding the right Vbeam practitioner can be difficult though.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP1985 View Post
    Hi Antwantsclear! Thanks for the tip of Soolantra + ZZ Cream together. Do you mind if I ask how you use these two (is it Soolantra in the morning and then ZZ Cream at night)? And do you find this works better than tea tree oil mask or any other anti-demodex treatment?

    TobyG - is there a reason you are considering Vbeam instead of IPL? I would strongly suggest you consider IPL. I don't think there is any studies or anecdotal evidence that vbeam is more effective for Subtype 1 than IPL. Also, most folks have very little down time on IPL (the next day my face was a little sensitive and that's about it). You might want to read this pamphlet for some very helpful info about Subtype 1 and IPL:

    https://rosacea-support.org/wp-conte...-Warm-Room.pdf

    Also I would suggest you consider Red Light therapy. You can do some searching on these forums and some say it was the best treatment they found. For me it did help a lot, I still use my red light every day. Here's an article about IPL + Red light together:

    https://rosacea-research.org/wiki/in...._Goldberg,_MD

    Cheers,
    Matt
    I tend to use only one at a time (always at night) - normally Zhongzhou cream. There is some concern that demodex mites can become immune to one treatment if you use it too regularly, though there seems to be less concern around that with Zhongzhou cream than with Soolantra cream.

    I would caution that the standard of evidence required for laser and IPL treatments is lower than for drug treatments in the UK. There are some Vbeam studies by a UK dermatologist, Vishal Madan - but it is sponsored by the device company, so it's important to compare it against a number of negative experiences with Vbeam in the laser section of this forum. I was advised by the top UK expert in IPL and laser, that neither was suitable for ear rosacea for example.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for that info Antwantsclear. Very helpful as always

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