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Thread: Lymphatic system and rosacea

  1. #1
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    Default Lymphatic system and rosacea

    Hello. I had the thought today that maybe the redness in my complexion (and the other rosacea symptoms) is caused by a buildup of inflammatory agents in the fluid within my facial skin. I'm not sure if this is true, but I decided to start experimenting with the idea by giving my face a massage (firm but gentle, minimal friction) to facilitate lymphatic flow, i.e. to mix the fluid around and let it homogenize, and hopefully drain away or detoxify through my lymphatic and immune systems. I also did some facial stretch exercises for the same reason. My thinking was that these hypothetical agents have somehow conglomerated, and are more difficult to eliminate or drain away than when they are more dissolved. The massage and the stretching might kind of break down and stir the fluid to increase dissolution and maybe the speed of the process that eliminates the inflammatory agents. My etiology is probably wrong, but frankly, it looked like it worked somewhat to reduce the redness after just the first massage. I am going to keep doing this and see what happens, but I was also wondering if anybody else has considered or tried something like this. I am interested to hear any thoughts on this.

    Some more information about my approach to rosacea: I have very mild rosacea to begin with, but I have body dysmorphic disorder about my complexion and the redness causes me a lot of distress. I have changed my diet dramatically. I avoid sugar, carbs, caffeine, alcohol, chocolate, peanuts, meats, dairy, and processed foods. My diet is high in fruits and vegetables high in antioxidants (ex. pomegranates), nuts, beans, eggs, moderate in fish and other lean meats. I drink basically only water. I wash my face in the mornings and evenings. I also take vitamins, use metronidazole cream, stay out of the sun, and reduce stress as much as possible.

    Things I think I could be doing: maybe washing my face less, and only using lukewarm water. I might stop using metronidazole cream and see if my diet change has helped to restore my skin's natural acid mantle. We shall see.

    Thank you for reading!
    Last edited by Cf123; 25th December 2018 at 06:20 AM. Reason: More detail

  2. #2
    Senior Member dryad's Avatar
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    Be aware that some of those practices - for example, dry skin brushing, which is not exactly what you're doing - are associated with skin irritation, so be careful.

    Have you tried eliminating tomatoes, eggplant/aubergine, peppers/capsicum, and other foods believed to be rosacea triggers? They were the foods I kept reading about when I was starting my elimination diet. Although I believe that I am personally NOT affected by diet (so far I have no strong evidence of any food causing flushing, after four+ months of a strict elimination diet) there are loads of people on this forum saying that diet strongly affects them.

    As far as all the other foods you've cut out -- have you tried adding them back in one at a time to see if they ACTUALLY make a difference? I was fully expecting my skin to react when I started adding in things like gluten, sugar, cheese, nuts, etc., and I did them one at a time and nothing happened. So I can eat those things again. To my mind, a strict diet only makes sense if the eliminated foods ACTUALLY cause a problem. If you test them and find that they don't, you can eat them again. Maybe something to consider so that your diet isn't so limited.

    I wash my face morning and night as well as as soon as I can after wearing makeup (on the rare occasion that I wear it) but I use micellar solution with a cotton pad instead of actual tap water. My dermatologist forbade me from getting tap water on my face although I am allowed to use thermal spring water mists as often as I want. If tap water bothers your skin (like it does mine), micellar solution as a wash may be a good way to go. There are a lot of them out there. I use Bioderma Hydrabio but have heard good things about others including Avene, La Roche Posay, Garnier, and Simple.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cf123 View Post
    Hello. I had the thought today that maybe the redness in my complexion (and the other rosacea symptoms) is caused by a buildup of inflammatory agents in the fluid within my facial skin. I'm not sure if this is true, but I decided to start experimenting with the idea by giving my face a massage (firm but gentle, minimal friction) to facilitate lymphatic flow, i.e. to mix the fluid around and let it homogenize, and hopefully drain away or detoxify through my lymphatic and immune systems. I also did some facial stretch exercises for the same reason. My thinking was that these hypothetical agents have somehow conglomerated, and are more difficult to eliminate or drain away than when they are more dissolved. The massage and the stretching might kind of break down and stir the fluid to increase dissolution and maybe the speed of the process that eliminates the inflammatory agents. My etiology is probably wrong, but frankly, it looked like it worked somewhat to reduce the redness after just the first massage. I am going to keep doing this and see what happens, but I was also wondering if anybody else has considered or tried something like this. I am interested to hear any thoughts on this.

    Some more information about my approach to rosacea: I have very mild rosacea to begin with, but I have body dysmorphic disorder about my complexion and the redness causes me a lot of distress. I have changed my diet dramatically. I avoid sugar, carbs, caffeine, alcohol, chocolate, peanuts, meats, dairy, and processed foods. My diet is high in fruits and vegetables high in antioxidants (ex. pomegranates), nuts, beans, eggs, moderate in fish and other lean meats. I drink basically only water. I wash my face in the mornings and evenings. I also take vitamins, use metronidazole cream, stay out of the sun, and reduce stress as much as possible.

    Things I think I could be doing: maybe washing my face less, and only using lukewarm water. I might stop using metronidazole cream and see if my diet change has helped to restore my skin's natural acid mantle. We shall see.

    Thank you for reading!
    Some of the published medical journals say the lymphatic system is involved at the very early stages of developing Rosacea.
    After flushing my nose swells, also when laying down to sleep at night (8 hours of swelling every night), no other part of my face swells. Due to this I have read quite a lot about lymphatic drainage over the years but get no benefit after trying the various massaging techniques.
    When I wake up in the morning and change from laying down to walking around it takes around 2 hours for my nose swelling to go away, so the lymph system is definitely involved in my case. Alas I have found no lymph massage technique that works for my nose, it actually irritates it and makes the swelling worse.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    "Skin conditions such as acne or rosacea, among others, benefit from this same cleansing effect. Manual lymph drainage is most commonly used as a component of complex decongestive therapy to treat lymphedema. However, it is a powerful and profound stand-alone massage technique."
    Manual Lymph Drainage MLD, John Mulligan, RMT/CLT-LANA
    Lymphedema Therapy, Education & Consulting
    For more info
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    Facial massage can help with redness and swelling I think. Sometimes caution is urged with it in relation to rosacea, but Professor Frank Powell does say in his Rosacea textbook that some of his most difficult cases have used massage to help ease various rosacea symptoms such as swelling when other treatments were inadequate. There are several videos on YouTube on facial lymphatic drainage I've found helpful. You are trying not to press hard, but instead to press fairly superficially and downwards on the skin, rather than pressing inwards, otherwise you will not be manipulating the lymph glands but deeper parts of the body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    "Skin conditions such as acne or rosacea, among others, benefit from this same cleansing effect. Manual lymph drainage is most commonly used as a component of complex decongestive therapy to treat lymphedema. However, it is a powerful and profound stand-alone massage technique."
    Manual Lymph Drainage MLD, John Mulligan, RMT/CLT-LANA
    Lymphedema Therapy, Education & Consulting
    For more info
    Thank you very much. This affirms my suspicions even more. If there is a way to restore and maintain the health of our facial lymphatic systems, there may be a way to achieve lasting relief from the symptoms of rosacea. But still, if rosacea is implicated with lymphatic dysfunction and inflammatory agents, why is it typically expressed just in the face? Also does lymphatic dysfunction cause rosacea, or does "rosacea" cause lymphatic dysfunction? Or is it some kind of feedback loop? Perhaps I could stand to learn more about the lymphatic system.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cf123 View Post
    Thank you very much. This affirms my suspicions even more. If there is a way to restore and maintain the health of our facial lymphatic systems, there may be a way to achieve lasting relief from the symptoms of rosacea. But still, if rosacea is implicated with lymphatic dysfunction and inflammatory agents, why is it typically expressed just in the face? Also does lymphatic dysfunction cause rosacea, or does "rosacea" cause lymphatic dysfunction? Or is it some kind of feedback loop? Perhaps I could stand to learn more about the lymphatic system.
    There is certainly a lot to learn about the lymphatic system. I remember a long time ago someone mentioned that oriental medicine focused way more on the lymphatic system than western medicine. For example, think about this statement, "The reality is that you have twice as much lymph fluid in your body as blood. The lymph continuously bathes each cell and drains away the waste in a circulatory system powered only by your breathing and movements. If the movement of the lymph stopped entirely you would die in a matter of hours." source There is also some relationship between the Angiogenesis & VEGF and the Lymphatic with regard to the many theories on the cause of rosacea. Keep searching.
    Brady Barrows
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    I know in the UK due to NHS cuts cancer patients who need lymphatic drainage can get extra treatment privately when I was having physio privately the room next door was in constant use by someone doing this.



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