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Thread: Benzyl Benzoate is Working Where All Else Has Failed

  1. #31
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    Lyclear contains formaldehyde, which is antibacterial and antifungal.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_1 View Post
    Dave, I was thinking about trying using Soolantra myself but the base put me off and experience tells me that it would be a mistake in my case. I think the increased oiliness is down to all the parabens in the product. I used a cetaphil face wash a few times and the oily film it left on my face was very noticeable. Might be a couple of ingredients that feed malassezia in there too.
    You may have been wise. The dilemma I have at the moment is whether to keep pressing on (with the minimum 6-month theory in mind) or to taper down in an attempt to get the oiliness back under control (I'm favouring the latter), because I'm seriously starting to wonder if soolantra isn't doing me more harm than good at this stage, at least in daily-application quantities. I obviously can't say for sure, but I'm wondering now what might have happened if I had tapered down at 3 months when I had a virtually clear face, instead of continuing to bombard myself with an oil-inducing topical on a nightly basis. I should add that the oiliness only started to become a noticeable issue at around 3 months - it certainly wasn't before that stage. 2+2=4?

    Quote Originally Posted by MariaSt View Post
    Try Lyclear (permethrin), it's both anti-acaricidal and antifungal.
    Maria, I've been away from the online community for around 3 years until the last month or so, so I'm a little out of the loop on more recent developments. Several years back, there were reports of some severe reactions to permethrin and, I think, to its reducing effectiveness as an insecticide. Do you know anything about either of these issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by sejon View Post
    I can't offer much info on acne rosacea because I don't have rosacea at all, even though I have what I suspect is a kind of demodex-induced acne. I think one of the main distinctions between acne vulgaris and demodex acne is that the latter can appear in areas where the former wouldn't -- for instance the inflamed bump I had on my earlobe. Acne vulgaris does not present on ears. Other odd locations where I've occasionally developed bumps are: along my hairline, in my sideburns, on my scalp, in my nostrils, and on the lip itself, as I just mentioned. These instances might be quite rare compared to where i normally develop spots, but the fact that they happen even at all had piqued my suspicion that this isn't standard acne anymore.
    Thanks sejon, that was an interesting post. Your case does indeed sound similar to mine - I also develop spots in strange areas, including most of those that you mention, also inside my ears and a very significant trouble spot is the area around the hairline on the back of my neck - this last one is something I've observed in many other men. In fact, one of the most difficult and puzzling things when I first began to experience problems was that, although I clearly have some kind of facial acne-type condition, the presentation & distribution on my face looked nothing at all like any of the 'classic' photos I would find online that supposedly represented acne vulgaris or acne rosacea...

    You also mentioned your chin. This reminded me of a strange quirk of my own treatment - I've had some massive breakouts on my chin through the course of my soolantra use (thankfully thats one problem that's calmed somewhat now), and yet this is one area which, when not treating, I very very rarely get a single spot! This has been quite bizarre, as all of the other areas where soolantra is causing me to flare are my 'classic' trouble zones (nose, central forehead, inner cheeks, smile lines...).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_1 View Post
    My skin has always done best when the bare minimum of commercial products are used on it...
    Nick, ditto. Hence my thinking in my first response to you further up this post...
    Last edited by davem81; 5th October 2018 at 11:05 AM.

  3. #33
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    There isn't any new development about permethrin. As to the severe reactions, I don't think they differ much from the reactions to other topicals. Sulfur, tea tree oil, Soolantra, etc can also cause reactions, die offs, allergies or anything else. Is the frequency of reactions to permethrin higher than to other topicals?

  4. #34
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    Yes, I caught on that difference recently and edited my post. A shame for those based in the UK -- feels a bit like being short-changed when it's only a third of what the US version has!
    Just to follow up on that briefly, I emailed the company Kala Health inquiring about the concentration in their OptiMSM gel and this was their response:

    "Due to law regulations we had to downgrade our OptiMSM gel from 15% to 5%. We still have stock left with 15% but over time they all should become 5%. This is why the price of OptiMSM Gel has been lowered aswell since you now need more gel for the same effect."

    Apparently the law (in the EU, at least) is limiting the concentration of MSM in topical application? That's bizarre, considering the toxicity of MSM has been tested to be comparable to that of...water! It's one of the safest ingredients out there, so capping its use at 5% is just nonsensical to me.

    Oh well, at least it's water-soluble and even acts as a preservative above 10%, which means concocting a simple MSM toner would be pretty straightforward even for those of us who are more averse to the DIY approach.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sejon View Post
    ...However I do mix it half-and-half with a moisturiser that I already know my skin tolerates well, because by itself it is just a complete mess that doesn't spread or absorb easily (as if no consideration whatsoever had been put into these aspects)...
    You should be diluting it with water. Less is more with ZZ Cream. My maintenance dose is about 1:10 - 1:20 ZZ Cream to water. All in the palms of my hands, and easily applied to my face.
    How I was cured from Demodectic / Demodex Rosacea (Types 1 & 2 & nearing 3), Seborrhoeic Dermatitis and Eczema

    Got a smartphone? Then please post a non-revealing pic of your face/skin to www.imgur.com, instead of using walls of text to describe it to us. It may be the best thing you've ever done!

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    Quick update: Only been a day since I removed MCT oil and my skin is already looking better. Importantly, it might be the first time I haven't experienced any breakouts over the past few days.

    Sejon, you're using Timeless HA, right? Apparently, a couple of people messaged the company and they stated that they were actually using medium molecular weight in their serum. You might want to message them yourself. It could be the reason it isn't doing anything to your skin. HMW manges to instantly make my skin look healthier after application, it's quite impressive really.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_1 View Post
    Sejon, you're using Timeless HA, right? Apparently, a couple of people messaged the company and they stated that they were actually using medium molecular weight in their serum. You might want to message them yourself. It could be the reason it isn't doing anything to your skin. HMW manges to instantly make my skin look healthier after application, it's quite impressive really.
    Yes that's the serum i use. I'm almost finished with my bottle, and once I'm done with it I've already decided that I'll try concocting my own simple HMW hyaluronic acid serum, with just water and a preservative. It's more economical and takes out the guesswork of whatever kind of HA a company is using (seeing as none ever seem to explicitly state it).

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Busby View Post
    Hi Nick, you asked about hyaluronic acid -- in my experience, it's the single best ingredient to remove excess keratin, aka the "extra layer" of skin that is produced in response to irritation. The irritation can be anything, for example, malassezia, demodex, or simply friction from shoes, gloves, exercise, or sports.

    Even after controlling malassezia and demodex, I found that I had an extra layer of keratin, the medical term for which is hyper-keratinization. This was on my face, slightly, and a medium amount on the palms of my hands, and heavily on the bottom of my feet. Accordingly, for this problem, I'm a good test subject. After using sodium hyaluronate, high molecular weight, for about a year the extra keratin has been flaking off and is almost gone. Before treatment, the extra layer of keratin created an effect that I'd call slightly like an elephant-skin appearance. Now, my skin looks plumper, feels softer, and a lot of wrinkles have filled in and vanished.

    I've found that when properly made, a HMW sodium hyaluronate concentration of 0.30% works as well as higher concentrations -- but you can't just dump it into water and expect such a low concentration to work -- I tried that early on, and it was not good.

    I've found that I don't need to use climbazole anymore -- this is great, as it suggests that malassezia-problems can be eradicated. However, that's not true for demodex-problems, as I still need to use piroctone olamine.

    I also found that tocophersolan (water-soluble Vitamin E) and retinyl palmitate (oil soluble Vitamin A) were helpful, but not to the same extent as sodium hyaluronate. Caution -- retinyl palmitate should never be used topically at more than 0.05%, so don't go cracking a Vitamin A cap onto your skin, because the results will be horrible. At low concentrations though, it's great.

    As for ZZ Cream, here is the German-language label, which looks like it has a lot of irritating and occlusive ingredients, and it doesn't even appear to be in a correct INCI-order, but anyway:
    Inhaltsstoffe: Aqua, Stearyl alcohol, Propylene glycol, Glycerol, Stearic acid, Zinc oxide, Sulfur, Isopropyl myristate, Petrolatum, Glyceryl stearate, Dimethicone, Menthol, Sorbitan stearate, Polysorbate 80, Wheat germ oil, Azone, Salicylic acid, Sodium lauryl sulfate.

    Looking at the label, it seems like ZZ Cream is going to lead to irritation and malassezia-based problems -- just my opinion though. Anyone who wants to test the effectiveness of sulfur against demodex would be better off, in my opinion, using organic water-soluble sulfur from Opti-MSM: http://www.optimsm.com/

    Opti-MSM is very pure, and is easily dissolved in water up to 20% weight to volume. Any concentration above 10% is a preservative, so it would be safe formulate this. http://www.nutritionaloutlook.com/be...e-preservative . It's about 34% sulfur, so to imitate the 7.1% sulfur in ZZ Cream, you would need to use about 21% Opti-MSM, but I'm not sure if it's soluble over 20%. I haven't tried a 20% concentration in a topical, but it seems logical to suggest it. I have made a sunless tanning lotion (aka a bronzer, with cacao powder for the tanning-colorant) with 10% Opti-MSM, and this is completely fine for anyone's skin, as far as I can determine.
    Do you mean that long term use of zz cream is going to lead to skin irritations and malassezia problem ?
    I wonder if there is any sides effect from a long term use because until now i find it the most effective cream for my rosacea type 2 ,finally after more than 5 years i can see my face in the mirror without being shamed
    I hope if there is any new or sientific research regarding this cream long term use and safety to tell us and share it with us


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #39
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    Hi asm, I'm saying only that the label makes ZZ cream look like it has ingredients that might cause problems, because the "base" appears to be too occlusive and pore-clogging (petrolatum and zinc oxide), wheat germ oil can be metabolized by malassezia, SLS is a skin irritant for some people, and menthol will make your eyes red so you shouldn't use it above or around my eyes (but inorganic sulfur will also make your eyes red, so I suppose menthol by itself doesn't really make any difference).

    Sejon has reported that it looks to him like the base is not made with much attention to aesthetics, or something like that, in one of his posts above, and I was making a similar observation, based only on reading the label. I also wanted people to consider trying MSM, since it should have very similar results (probably identical results) to ZZ cream, but without any of the problems that can occur with inorganic sulfur.

    I'm not aware of any EU or FDA regulations that would require MSM to be limited to a 5% concentration, especially since it's only 34% sulfur to begin with, and it's so safe it's edible -- you can put it on your cereal in the morning without any side effects whatsoever. That being said, as I stated above, I have tried a maximum of 10% MSM in a topical lotion (a sunless tanning lotion), and have seen no side effects at all. Plus, I've used it around my eyes and on my eyelids, with zero burning, which is a simple "acid-test" for any cosmetic.

    Inorganic sulfur at 7.1% in ZZ Cream is allowed by the FDA (up to 10% is allowed), but 5% is recommended by the FDA -- accordingly, I was not saying this is the potential problem with ZZ cream, but I was saying the label makes the base looks problematic, but Red Recluse has reported good results with ZZ cream, and he stated above he is currently diluting it with 10 to 20 parts water and still getting good results. As have you, apparently. Right?

    Sejon, high molecular weight sodium hyaluronate (HMW SA) does not completely dissolve in water, at least in my experience. Therefore, I make it with a multi-step process and formulate it into the hot emulsion-phase, so the sodium hyaluronate is incorporated into the micelles of the oil-in-water emulsion -- it's most likely this is the primary reason why I found HMW SA to be extremely useful for improving my skin texture and softness. I buy HMW SA powder from Lotioncrafter -- I believe that all the other sources of HMW SA sell a lower molecular weight, even if it's still in the "high" range of weights, as far as nomenclature is concerned, and this may another source of variation for peoples' experience with HMW SA.

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    I'm not aware of any EU or FDA regulations that would require MSM to be limited to a 5% concentration, especially since it's only 34% sulfur to begin with, and it's so safe it's edible -- you can put it on your cereal in the morning without any side effects whatsoever.
    I'm likewise confused as to why there would be a regulatory limit on MSM, but it looks like if anyone wants to try a concentration higher than 5% they'll have to concoct their own, because I can no longer find any available products that exceed this amount (if anyone does, please feel free to let us know). At least the DIY route is fairly straightforward with MSM considering it's water-soluble and works as a preservative above 10%, as you pointed out.

    I buy HMW SA powder from Lotioncrafter -- I believe that all the other sources of HMW SA sell a lower molecular weight, even if it's still in the "high" range of weights, as far as nomenclature is concerned, and this may another source of variation for peoples' experience with HMW SA.
    This is one of the frustrations I've come across with hyaluronic acid -- there appears to be no general consensus on what is considered "high", "medium", "low", "super low", etc. molecular weights. The categorisations seem quite arbitrary, so the only really useful information is when it's actually expressed in units of atomic mass (Daltons).

    I remember when I used the Hada Labo Hyaluronic Acid "Premium" Lotion, which had a mixture of low, super-low, and their patented "nano" weights of hyaluronic acid. After using it for a couple of months, my face developed a thin layer of keratinised skin, even up to my upper cheeks, which was mostly unnoticeable except that whenever I used my electric trimmer some of this extra layer would shed and flake off in large amounts, so that almost my whole face looked like a flaky mess. When I quit using it, this no longer became a problem. Ever since then I've been convinced that low molecular weights of HA can cause low-grade inflammation and irritate the skin. The Timeless HA serum doesn't cause this problem, so it seems to be a safer type, but if as you say the high molecular weight sodium hyaluronate doesn't completely dissolve in water, then I'm even more sceptical that their serum has this type.

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