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Thread: Benzyl Benzoate is Working Where All Else Has Failed

  1. #41
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    I've removed MCT Oil for almost a week now and I'm happy to say that I'm well back on track. I'm not sure if it caused demodex related issues or just clogged my pores. I have experienced a few pimples the past week so perhaps it's the former. Worth noting that I also applied the same mixture to my trunk and had a similar outbreak.

    In all honesty, I think demodex is pretty easy to get under control. I've used a simple sulphur and zinc oxide mix, 10% sulphur left on the skin for 10 minutes, BB and also ZZ cream. They all killed the mites and stopped further outbreaks. I'm sure TTO, ivermectin and permethrin would work too. HOCL is another one to consider. I really don't think there is anything special about ZZ cream that warrants its use over the others, especially given its price and ingredients. In my case I actually preferred it the least. BB has been the best I've used because it also managed to get rid of my greasy skin too. I look forward to anyone else who will give it a go and report back, although this person will have to be from outside the USA it seems.

    I've come to the realisation that it's really my skin texture that ultimately bothers me and is my main issue. It's the reason why after having previously treated demodex, I could look at people with quite bad acne and think they had better skin than me. Underneath the acne and in areas where they have no pimples their skin texture and tone looks normal. In my quite extensive experience in treating demodex, no amount of time with sulphur, BB etc. will take care of this, although sulphur is a keratolytic so may have some effect.

    This is noticeable to varying degress depending on the lightning. The best way for me to see any skin texture issues is to stand side on to a window and look into a mirror. I can then clearly see a rough, pitted texture on the side of my face closest to the window. The skin has a kind of orange peel texture or "elephant-skin appearance" as Tom puts it, with some very small raised bumps going in all directions too (kind of like raised lines), which aren't noticeable front on. There is also a base redness to my skin.


    Climbazole dissolves fungal cell walls, although the process is very, very slow. I feel that the combination of climbazole and HA to dissolve the cell walls and excess kertain is the answer. When I used to look at my skin after breakouts from demodex stopped, I thought if only I could get rid of several of its layers I would truly be clear. This has led me on a wild goose chase for years, trying treatment after treatment with success in various symptoms like bumps, redness and flaking, but never being able to fix my ultimate problem, which is the texture of my skin. In fact, at the moment when I look at my skin it's as if I have already got rid of one thin layer after 3 weeks of having added climbazole and HA, and there are several more to go. I say this because my skin looks smoother and the base redness has gone down by a shade. It doesn't help that I started using HA and climbazole at the same time though. So I can't tell if the climbazole is dissolving fungal cell walls or if it's the HA alone that is dissolving the excess keratin and improving my skin texture.

    What of course further complicates matters is that demodex can cause similar symptoms like the flakiness in certain areas of my face and ears - even what looks like malassezia folliculitis on my body could be demodex related. I've had no excessive flaking of skin since I incorporated climbazole which makes me question malassezia to an extent.

    The mixture I use is very rudimentary but it combines the most effective demodex and malassezia killers, according to the literature, in a simple base. I've mentioned it before, but it's 9 teaspoons of hada labo lotion, 1 teaspoon of 99.9% BB and a pinch of climbazole. I use nothing else on my skin other than face wash, as past experience has told me that the less I use on my face the better. Just look at what happened with MCT oil. As far as I can tell these all mix together fine, and I make sure to shake the bottle before each use. Be warned that there is a burning sensation that you'll more than likely find uncomfortable. It's only a burning sensation and your skin isn't actually burning. I apply HMW HA in the morning and sometimes 1-2 more times throughout the day.

    Previously I was using a pre-blended BB solution with neem and lavender oil, but I've now used BB in its current form for 5 weeks, and HMW and climbazole for 3 weeks. I have noticed some irritation with my current regime (perhaps the recent pimples are irritation related) so will look to reduce the percentage of BB used. My skin is kind of weird. I can get out of the shower, wash my face and it looks quite irritated and bad. I then apply some HA and 30 minutes later it looks as good as it has looked in years.


    I also received some urea and am wondering whether to incorporate it or not. It's a powerful keratolytic that might speed things up.

    Funnily enough, in the midst of writing this post I found a post on reddit which I may as well have written. He mentioned his experience with urea and things I've experienced, right down to "I reckon it was caused by my religious use of Benzoyl Peroxide...I had friends with severe acne who still had much better skin underneath...one user here thought I had some mild form of Hyperkeratinization, which basically means my dead skin cells don't slough off like they should, forming a thick, crusty layer of skin that won't come off no matter how much I exfoliate or moisturize. An excess of keratin, in other words."


    Due to the irritation I stated above, I was looking to potentially switch to HOCL for its gentleness. I've done some research and found that HOCL is only able to kill the nymph form of the mites in addition to Bacillus oleronius - and there's a link between the two with the Bacillus oleronius being what we react to. Although for whatever reason studies have shown that rosaceans have a higher demodex count too. Killing off bacillus oleronius appears to be the reason why some antibiotics work for rosacea. HOCL interests me alone for those reasons but also because it is very, very gentle. I would probably switch to it if I was certain that malassezia wasn't involved in my condition.


    Anyway, long post because I don't think I have much need to visit this forum any more. I know what I need to do and now I ultimately just need to be patient with what is currently working. I believe I simply need to follow this routine for anywhere between 1 and 6 more months for what will hopefully be complete clearance. I am doing the same for my trunk but without the use of HMW HA. I apply the same mixture to my hair 1-2 times a week and I'm sure it's having a positive effect too.

    I'll periodically post updates.

  2. #42
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    Hi Nick, glad you're continuing to make progress and appear to have found something that works for you. Just have a couple questions for you:

    How often have you been applying the benzyl benzoate? Mornings and evenings, or just once per day?

    Regarding the HMW Hyaluronic Acid you use, I'm guessing you made your own solution? If so, did it fully dissolve in water, or did you notice that it doesn't completely, in line with Tom Busby's experience?

    The mixture I use is very rudimentary but it combines the most effective demodex and malassezia killers, according to the literature, in a simple base. I've mentioned it before, but it's 9 teaspoons of hada labo lotion, 1 teaspoon of 99.9% BB and a pinch of climbazole. I use nothing else on my skin other than face wash, as past experience has told me that the less I use on my face the better. Just look at what happened with MCT oil. As far as I can tell these all mix together fine, and I make sure to shake the bottle before each use.
    It's very peculiar to me that you somehow managed to dissolve climbazole in Hada Labo lotion and BB. In my experience this definitely does not happen, because climbazole very stubbornly clumps up in the presence of water. When you pre-mix these have you been checking for precipitation at the bottom of the bottle?

    I also received some urea and am wondering whether to incorporate it or not. It's a powerful keratolytic that might speed things up.
    Urea is a great ingredient, being one of the few that can exfoliate the skin while also keeping it hydrated (Tom of course claims that HMW HA can do this, too, but his experience is a single case report whereas urea has many years' worth of research that shows it to have this effect). As a general rule, it really needs a concentration of at least 10% for the exfoliative properties to kick in -- anything below that and it just functions as a hydrator. Face creams tend to be limited to 5% or less, but there have been anecdotal reports of people using body or even foot creams, with much higher concentrations, on their face without any side effects.

  3. #43
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    Hi Sejon, thanks for the info about urea. I was originally thinking of using it at 5%.

    I apply it once a day at night. The HA I'm using is a commercial product. It's made by Cos De BAHA; only contains purified water, sodium hyaluronate and 1,2 -Hexanediol; and they actually list its molecular weight, which is 1,500 kDa.

    Your comments about climbazole's inability to dissolve interest me. When I first received it, I poured a teaspoon of BB, added some climbazole and it dissolved instantly. I just tried now and this doesn't seem to be the case. However, I checked the mixture I use and can't see or feel any precipitation at the bottom of the bottle. I also poured it out and can't see any climbazole crystals in the mixture. I haven't been washing the bottle out either, so you would think if any precipitation occurred climbazole would build up and be easier to spot at the bottom as time goes on, but this isn't the case. Strange.

  4. #44
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    Hi guys, I made some progress following a routine of using a gentle avene foaming cleanser in the evening, followed by skinoren cream for 20 mins, then lotirimin ultra, then just before bed ZZ cream.. my skin got one huge cystic acne lump on my cheek next to my nose which has nearly healed now, not sure if that was die off related or because I tried to moisturise with hada labo skin plumping and sometimes squalene which can turn non comedogenic products into comedogenic. Any how I stopped using the moisturisers and then the skinoren when that cyst went down and i think the lotirimin ultra stopped working (I've seen accounts of the malasezzia becoming resistant to it) so I was down to just using ZZ cream for the past week which has resulted in a few new pimples coming up and seb derm seems to be making a return as well. Mine is more redness than anything else I don't really get the flakiness. In the mean time ive ordered some hascofungin which i believe is is 1% ciclopirox olamine lotion to see how that does but I was thinking about prehaps a simple lotion to make as follows.

    I've seen people talk about dermasoft decalact as an easier water soluble alternative to climbazole however I couldn't find it anywhere to purchase for delivery to the UK. I managed to find dermasoft decalact sebum which I ordered because it may even be more beneficial perhaps considering I have oily skin. I was thinking about mixing this with a distilled water that contains 10% Optimsm flakes as I saw Tom Busby say this would be a preservative. I was wondering if I would only need to add 10% worth of the flakes in weight for it to be a preservative or more because the flakes contain around 37% sulphur I believe and I didn't know if the preservative was 10% sulphur or 10% Optimsm flakes? Perhaps Tom could clear that up for me. I also wanted to add HMW hyaluronic acid, niacinamide and get the PH to about 5 to make a lotion which should be water based, preserved with a moisturiser, active anti fungal and vitamins. It sounds good on paper but wondering if anyone see's any holes in it? I've never concoted anything other than climbazoil but thought this would be about as easy as it gets.

    Many thanks for reading.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_1 View Post
    Sejon, you're using Timeless HA, right? Apparently, a couple of people messaged the company and they stated that they were actually using medium molecular weight in their serum. You might want to message them yourself. It could be the reason it isn't doing anything to your skin. HMW manges to instantly make my skin look healthier after application, it's quite impressive really.
    I think there might be some truth to this regarding the Timeless HA serum. As my bottle of it was running very low (I've been using it for about a year at this point), I went ahead and bought the CosdeBAHA HA serum you mention, and was able to compare the two. The CosdeBAHA is very noticeably more viscous, i.e. "goopier", than the Timeless serum. I think comparing viscosity is useful here because both serums contain nothing more than sodium hyaluronate, water, and a preservative, without any ingredients that would affect the texture. So it does indeed seem that CosdeBAHA contains a higher molecular weight of sodium hyaluronate than the Timeless serum.

    I have yet to test its effects on my skin, but it's refreshing to have come across a company that uses HMW HA and even specifies the molecular weight in Daltons,; this is a lot more transparent than the majority of their competitors. Thanks for pointing me in their direction.

  6. #46
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    BB in its current form was starting to become irritating, so I started to look for an alternative. I think the best way to use BB would be how I was originally using it in an oil based mix and then further diluting it. I settled on Nu-Stock, which isn't exactly known to be non-irritating, but I knew what I was going to get with every other treatment I've previously used and this was one of the few left I hadn't tried.

    I was a bit nervous about using Nu-Stock because it is said to be highly irritating and burns the skin. Thankfully, I didn't experience this. I first used Nu-Stock in a 50/50 zinc oxide mix with a drop or two of tea tree oil, but this stuff was near impossible to get off my skin. I then replaced the zinc oxide cream with the hada labo lotion. This was easier to wash off with the exception of facial hair. So in total I treated my entire face for 6 days and my beard and moustache area for 3 days after I trimmed it down to better target the area.

    I'd say that there is no need to treat the face beyond 3 days, which I think was the timeline given by the originator of this treatment. The first night of treatment I felt a lot of crawling. After 3 days die-off stopped and using it any longer will just dry out your skin. In fact, my skin feels tight at the moment and is kind of creased in some places. I toyed with the idea of continuing with it to allow my skin to peel to reveal new skin underneath, but I thought that probably wouldn't be wise. After 3 days my skin probably looked its best.

    Anyway, Nu-Stock seems to be highly, highly effective. The theory goes that sulphur at 10% and under is enough to just disturb the mites and not truly eradicate them and kill them on contact. It also helps that Nu-Stock has pine oil, and this treatment has the addition of another demodex killer in TTO too. This is evidenced by reports of people only having results when they started to become more aggressive with Nu-Stock by using it at a 50/50 mix. Maintenance is also something that doesn't appear to be needed.

    I think there's something to this given this isn't exactly the first time I've treated demodex. Without daily treatment I still break out. I remember that once I pretty much went a couple of months with no breakout, I stopped using anything on my face for literally 3-4 days and I broke out in the same area that I always used to. I thought that there had to be a better way than daily lifetime treatment with topicals.

    I won't put anything else on my skin and will keep an eye on it to see if I break out. Since having stopped treatment any crawling sensations at night have been minimal, so I'm hopeful. I thinking of doing this once a week when my skin feels normal again. At the moment it's only really red marks that remain and a couple of bumps from the die-off, skin tone is also more normal as it texture.

    Could eradicating demodex in just 3 days really be so simple? Some seem to think so.

  7. #47
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    NuStock is to be used for 4-5 months. Three days aren't enough. It's good you noticed results so soon, but keep going.

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    Maria, are you sure? Have you used Nu-Stock yourself at a 50/50 mix?

    Several reports state that they used it for just a few days. The key was to use it at 50/50 so the sulphur content would be 35%. No advantage in using Nu-Stock for 4-5 months due to its harshness unless it's used perhaps once a week.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_1 View Post

    Anyway, Nu-Stock seems to be highly, highly effective. The theory goes that sulphur at 10% and under is enough to just disturb the mites and not truly eradicate them and kill them on contact. It also helps that Nu-Stock has pine oil, and this treatment has the addition of another demodex killer in TTO too. This is evidenced by reports of people only having results when they started to become more aggressive with Nu-Stock by using it at a 50/50 mix. Maintenance is also something that doesn't appear to be needed.
    This absolutely chimes with my experience.

    Several years ago I used a 10% sulfur gel on my nose, which at the time was where I almost exclusively got my symptoms. Over several weeks, I observed what I can only imagine was a massive mite 'migration' from my nose to the inner cheeks and forehead, literally ripping up what had to that point been entirely spotless skin.

    It's a legacy I live with to this day - ever since that treatment attempt, my symptoms are far more widespread than they used to be.
    Last edited by davem81; 22nd October 2018 at 03:20 PM.

  10. #50
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    I used NuStock at 50% concentration and in the end at 100%. You have to kill several generations of demodex to be sure.

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