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Thread: Trigeminal sensory malfunction theory on the cause of rosacea

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    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Default Trigeminal sensory malfunction theory on the cause of rosacea

    Now there is a new clinical paper by Mascarenhas et al. (2017) of a new pathogenesis theory on rosacea. The "link between chronic facial skin inflammation in rosacea, constitutive facial innervation by the trigeminal system, and possible involvement of trigeminal neuroinflammation and neural sensitization mechanisms in rosacea should prompt one to think more proactively about why the presence and severity of rosacea could act as a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease, as recently reported (Egeberg et al., 2016)." For more information.
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    I know in my case rosacea is definitely a nerve dysfunction. I'm in my 50's have a red burning face since I was 15yrs.old tried everything under the sun to cure it.
    I have had several concussions way back in the day most by playing ball. Im positive this knocked my nervous system right of wrack-This disease has 100% ruined my life.
    Always believed that when a cure is found its going to be how they stabilize the dysfunction in the nerves. I still have hope there's a cure that will be found-don't have acne bumps cleared decades ago with Accutane only red burning cheeks and a weak stomach.

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    yay great ...

    if they're just understanding nerves implication in rosacea and, wait for it... in every autoimmune sh**, we're far from a cure.

    Sorry to be sceptical and sorry for the pessimistic behaviour, but it should be already assessed from a long time now. What else but nervous system more generaly could be in charge of immunity driving ? If we're correct to think immunity is something like a reflex, the same one that makes you breathe or makes your heart beat, what else could it be but a nervous component ? I am by no means a scientist, but I figured that out years ago. How can they only shed this new light now ?

    Let's try to sound more friendly and less like an ass : Wouhou ! great ! and what do we do now ? Should we all be waiting for Alzeihmer ? Parkinson ? Anything brighter ?

    Thanks Brandy anyway to share.
    Last edited by Des Esseintes; 6th August 2017 at 04:27 PM.

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    The idea of trigeminal nerve involvement isn't really new. Has anyone got the full text? Is there something interesting or it's the same old "we hypothesise .. more research needs to be done "

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    Senior Member nat007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Des Esseintes View Post
    yay great ...

    if they're just understanding nerves implication in rosacea and, wait for it... in every autoimmune sh**, we're far from a cure.

    Sorry to be sceptical and sorry for the pessimistic behaviour, but it should be already assessed from a long time now. What else but nervous system more generaly could be in charge of immunity driving ? If we're correct to think immunity is something like a reflex, the same one that makes you breathe or makes your heart beat, what else could it be but a nervous component ? I am by no means a scientist, but I figured that out years ago. How can they only shed this new light now ?

    Let's try to sound more friendly and less like an ass : Wouhou ! great ! and what do we do now ? Should we all be waiting for Alzeihmer ? Parkinson ? Anything brighter ?

    Thanks Brandy anyway to share.
    I agree. If we're talking about subtype 1 rosacea with flushing and burning, then it seems simply impossible to have the symptoms without the central nervous system and auto immune activity being involved. Unless someone just has couperose and broken blood vessels. The rest, the on and off switch of red face to pale face again, goes through the nervous/immune system I am convinced. Either through extra adrenaline induced blood vessel dilation, or through blood pressure changes, inflammation from auto immunity, histamine induced blood vessel dilation, etc etc. Meds that calm the central nervous system down (some antidepressants for instance) calm down subtype 1 rosacea often, which is another clue about its involvement. Given all this complex stuff involved with rosacea (and it not being a straight forward bacterial skin infection for instance), I see no light at the end of the tunnel any time soon
    Uses: 22,5 mg mirtazapine, clonidine and propranolol, Xyzal at times.
    Diet: trying low sugar, no gluten and dairy, high protein diet.
    Link to my rosacea blog:http://scarletnat.blogspot.com

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    Thanks badabah not to let a "compatriot" alone in this issue. It is indeed not new and I've been reading about it pretty much in the past. But we french gonna sound sufficient (has it got the same meaning in english ?) again ... lol

    And thanks to nat, as you are far more precise than me to explain the desperation out of this non discovery...

    For myself, I can't tell about the light at the end of the tunnel as maybe, MAYBE, something that acts on this nervous level already exists in a medicated way. Well I hope so because if not, we do seem screwed...

    Good luck as to all.
    (But for myself, I always had the best success with whatever calm somewhat down my nerves state).

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    Ive read recently that 4 companies have just finished phase 3 trials for anti CGRP drugs (with positive results). These drugs are geared for migraine (CGRP is released by the trigeminal nerve ... or something like that ... the details elude me) but I am hopeful that they will be helpful for sub 1 rosacea, as CGRP is a neuropeptide implicated in rosacea as well, causing vasodilation. These drugs have nearly 0 side effects because of the antibody specificity. These drugs are too large to cross the blood brain barrier and so work by peripheral mechanisms, as a prophylactic.

    Interestingly, propranolol, botox, and imitrex -- which are migraine meds -- have all been helpful for my rosacea. (The botox has different injection mechanism though). One former member on here I know takes Maxalt (a migraine med) for her severe type 1 rosacea/erythromelalgia.

    Anyway i could be completely off-base. But : "If CGRP fulfills its promise as a blockbuster pain target, that success could signal to drug developers that effective treatments for other complex and seemingly intractable pain disorders, such as fibromyalgia, are also within reach"

    quote from
    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/...-end-migraines

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    Senior Member nat007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laser_cat View Post
    Ive read recently that 4 companies have just finished phase 3 trials for anti CGRP drugs (with positive results). These drugs are geared for migraine (CGRP is released by the trigeminal nerve ... or something like that ... the details elude me) but I am hopeful that they will be helpful for sub 1 rosacea, as CGRP is a neuropeptide implicated in rosacea as well, causing vasodilation. These drugs have nearly 0 side effects because of the antibody specificity. These drugs are too large to cross the blood brain barrier and so work by peripheral mechanisms, as a prophylactic.

    Interestingly, propranolol, botox, and imitrex -- which are migraine meds -- have all been helpful for my rosacea. (The botox has different injection mechanism though). One former member on here I know takes Maxalt (a migraine med) for her severe type 1 rosacea/erythromelalgia.

    Anyway i could be completely off-base. But : "If CGRP fulfills its promise as a blockbuster pain target, that success could signal to drug developers that effective treatments for other complex and seemingly intractable pain disorders, such as fibromyalgia, are also within reach"

    quote from
    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/...-end-migraines
    Very interesting Laser_cat and there is also a patent to be found online, for the use of a CGRP antagonist for the treatment of rosacea: https://www.google.com/patents/US6509014
    "The administration of compositions containing one or more CGRP antagonists permits eliciting a marked decrease or even complete disappearance of skin redness, which is manifested both in rosacea and in discreet erythema."

    From what I can understand, they are looking for a topical that can block vasodilation. It might have to be topical perhaps, as in the interesting article you shared, it was claimed that "Safety also concerns him because of CGRP’s natural role in dilating arteries and maintaining blood supply to the heart and brain. “Theoretically, if you block CGRP you could translate a minor stroke or cardiac ischemia … into a full blown stroke or heart attack."
    Uses: 22,5 mg mirtazapine, clonidine and propranolol, Xyzal at times.
    Diet: trying low sugar, no gluten and dairy, high protein diet.
    Link to my rosacea blog:http://scarletnat.blogspot.com

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    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babadah View Post
    The idea of trigeminal nerve involvement isn't really new. Has anyone got the full text? Is there something interesting or it's the same old "we hypothesise .. more research needs to be done "
    TRPV4 Moves toward Center-Fold in Rosacea Pathogenesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    Thanks Brady. After first quick reading, my impressions : when you google TRPV4 and inflammation, many other diseases come in results. So it's more like "something that participates in inflammation in other areas, does that in rosacea too" . The trigeminal nerve involvement looks unclear, it is associated to rosacea but they are not even sure what came first ( am i right on that ? )
    What does sound interesting is that an administration of a toxin blocked mast cell degranulation. Maybe that could bring another topical (in what, 10 years from here ?) Then again, another topical, another rebound effect concerns..

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