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Thread: Botox helping my flushing (!)

  1. #21
    Senior Member laser_cat's Avatar
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    Just want to update this - I had been getting botox every 3 months for the past 1.5 years. Recently I skipped my usual appt (unimportant reason), and I'd say 4 months after my last, my evening burning really deteriorated again. I have the same pulsing, pounding, sensation that I believe is more nerve based + reflects small fiber neuropathy (and less so blood vessel instability .. although this might be the unfortunate result). Comes out of the blue at night (can go from a 0 to a 10 in a few seconds), and all I can do is wait it out.

    I am trying to get another appt ASAP. But I def. took for granted how much the botox was helping me. I think it was quieting the neurogenic inflammation / making the sensory nerves less likely to spontaneously fire + dump their inflammatory / dilatory stuffs (?)

    It doesn't help much with social flushing, but a lot with the evening burning/flushing. THis was my observation when I started having it done, too.
    Last edited by laser_cat; 18th September 2018 at 02:12 AM.

  2. #22
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    I agree botox can be very helpful as long as you have a really good doctor to inject it that understands rosacea well. The main problem is if they hit larger blood vessels. The Accuvein is a good new tool available to help the injector either find or avoid veins (clearly in the case of rosacea the injector should be trying to avoid the veins!).

  3. #23
    Senior Member laser_cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    I agree botox can be very helpful as long as you have a really good doctor to inject it that understands rosacea well. The main problem is if they hit larger blood vessels. The Accuvein is a good new tool available to help the injector either find or avoid veins (clearly in the case of rosacea the injector should be trying to avoid the veins!).
    Thanks ants - never heard of accuvein. I'll ask my derm about it Yeah, I agree about that not hitting hte veins is important .. I am a little nervous each time about that! It actually concerns me much more than the pain of the needle poking...

    Botox for me has helped more than most oral medication, actually.

  4. #24
    Senior Member laser_cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antwantsclear View Post
    I agree botox can be very helpful as long as you have a really good doctor to inject it that understands rosacea well. The main problem is if they hit larger blood vessels. The Accuvein is a good new tool available to help the injector either find or avoid veins (clearly in the case of rosacea the injector should be trying to avoid the veins!).
    Ants - Curious if you've used "aquagold" or a similar needle before? I think it might be able to provide a more uniform delivery of botox, without risking any paralysis of the muscles (ensuring it is shallow enough)

    Thanks!

  5. #25
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    I'm very interested in trying botox for redness and burning sensation. I am wondering what the costs are, can somebody comment on that?

  6. #26
    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshuaweismann View Post
    I'm very interested in trying botox for redness and burning sensation. I am wondering what the costs are, can somebody comment on that?
    botoxcost.jpg

    HOW MUCH DOES BOTOX COST?, USA today
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  7. #27
    Senior Member laser_cat's Avatar
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    I just want to come back and update this.

    I don't do botox anymore. I did get it for a couple yrs full face, lots of little injections but do not think it is worthwhile overall at least in my case. The trauma each round is something to consider (although I find it less "traumatic" than laser). There is high upkeep and it did not help in an overall way - ie did not help my anxiety flushing at all (basically every time I had a thought..). Botox was a badaid at best although I was very fortunate for the botox benefit while I was doing it.

    My opinion is it is more worthwhile to treat and treat the inflammation, or at the least try for oral medication (nerve, inflammation, vasoactive). For me I think inflammation was irritating the nerves (lymphatics imbalance?) and the nerve flushing was in some ways a productive response to said inflammation. What is helping my night flushing now is cymbalta BID and what is helping my anxiety flushing now is 200 mg doxy. I've just signed papers for low dose accutane and might try that too.

    At my last appt with botox - the doctor admitted he hoped it would be a temporary solution before we found a more permanent one.
    Last edited by laser_cat; 7th December 2020 at 08:39 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by laser_cat View Post
    I just want to come back and update this.

    I don't do botox anymore. I did get it for a couple yrs full face, lots of little injections but do not think it is worthwhile overall at least in my case. The trauma each round is something to consider (although I find it less "traumatic" than laser). There is high upkeep and it did not help in an overall way - ie did not help my anxiety flushing at all (basically every time I had a thought..). Botox was a badaid at best although I was very fortunate for the botox benefit while I was doing it.

    My opinion is it is more worthwhile to treat and treat the inflammation, or at the least try for oral medication (nerve, inflammation, vasoactive). For me I think inflammation was irritating the nerves (lymphatics imbalance?) and the nerve flushing was in some ways a productive response to said inflammation. What is helping my night flushing now is cymbalta BID and what is helping my anxiety flushing now is 200 mg doxy. I've just signed papers for low dose accutane and might try that too.

    At my last appt with botox - the doctor admitted he hoped it would be a temporary solution before we found a more permanent one.
    That's really interesting that the doxycycline is helping you- I started on 50 mg/day last Thursday and it's too early to really report back, but I actually felt like it helped from the first day I took it (not sure that's even possible, but that's my experience so far). Hydroxychloroquine (which is also anti-inflammatory) has been the only other med so far that helped significantly so I think inflammation is a big part of my flushing issue as well. Ever since I did a series of IPL last year I've had edema that never completely goes away- the hydroxy. and doxy have helped with that and I hope that the doxy continues to help.

  9. #29
    Senior Member laser_cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamoverton View Post
    That's really interesting that the doxycycline is helping you- I started on 50 mg/day last Thursday and it's too early to really report back, but I actually felt like it helped from the first day I took it (not sure that's even possible, but that's my experience so far). Hydroxychloroquine (which is also anti-inflammatory) has been the only other med so far that helped significantly so I think inflammation is a big part of my flushing issue as well. Ever since I did a series of IPL last year I've had edema that never completely goes away- the hydroxy. and doxy have helped with that and I hope that the doxy continues to help.
    Yeah I think it's super interesting too. I know someone whose flushing (post-facial?) was cured with 50 mg doxy (!) What!?!?
    I have severe severe flushing so oracea didn't do anything but i have a doc now who realizes at least i need to be maxing out these drugs in terms of doses. So I'm on 200 mg doxy. I noticed a difference with the first couple doses but it has plateaued. I'm all set up to trial low dose accutane. Because the doxy indicates inflammatory rosacea pathology as per my doc which indicates accutane could help + be more powerful.
    I read somewhere on how the lymphatics might get impaired or overwhelmed from trauma. No one really knows yet how the lymphatics work but have been reading about it and really think that's the underlying root of a lot of rosacea (not able to heal possibly due to already overwhelmed lymphatics..) including ear burning.

    Anyway hope the doxy continues to help. I'm sorry that happened to you after IPL's.


    I'll come back to post accutane and what my results are. I was diagnosed with neuro rosacea but actually think I'm heading into Morbihan's (very subtle) - full dose doxy and accutane (more so accutane) being the mainstay treatments to help lymph drainage. unfortunately i have can't take doxy and accutane together. I was told doxy peaks in a couple months as far as efficacy.

    Why the F was I never rx'ed full dose doxy ... oh man. On doxy I can have a conversation and not flush or get hot. My doc told me I am going to take 100 mg doxy for life (I guess after accutane or independent of accutane) because i think he thinks it might slow down any progression. And I'm more than happy to do so honestly.
    Last edited by laser_cat; 9th December 2020 at 08:21 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by laser_cat View Post
    Yeah I think it's super interesting too. I know someone whose flushing (post-facial?) was cured with 50 mg doxy (!) What!?!?
    I have severe severe flushing so oracea didn't do anything but i have a doc now who realizes at least i need to be maxing out these drugs in terms of doses. So I'm on 200 mg doxy. I noticed a difference with the first couple doses but it has plateaued. I'm all set up to trial low dose accutane. Because the doxy indicates inflammatory rosacea pathology as per my doc which indicates accutane could help + be more powerful.
    I read somewhere on how the lymphatics might get impaired or overwhelmed from trauma. No one really knows yet how the lymphatics work but have been reading about it and really think that's the underlying root of a lot of rosacea (not able to heal possibly due to already overwhelmed lymphatics..) including ear burning.

    Anyway hope the doxy continues to help. I'm sorry that happened to you after IPL's.


    I'll come back to post accutane and what my results are. I was diagnosed with neuro rosacea but actually think I'm heading into Morbihan's (very subtle) - full dose doxy and accutane (more so accutane) being the mainstay treatments to help lymph drainage. unfortunately i have can't take doxy and accutane together. I was told doxy peaks in a couple months as far as efficacy.

    Why the F was I never rx'ed full dose doxy ... oh man. On doxy I can have a conversation and not flush or get hot. My doc told me I am going to take 100 mg doxy for life (I guess after accutane or independent of accutane) because i think he thinks it might slow down any progression. And I'm more than happy to do so honestly.

    That's super informative, thanks for this! I'll be really interested to hear how your trial with low-dose accutane goes.

    I'm going to check out more about Morbihan's as it does seem related- I've always felt that the swelling/edema I have causes my flushing (and not the other way around) for some reason. Whenever I recline (on the couch or in bed) it can trigger a flush, which seems to be caused by lymphatic fluid buildup not draining as properly as it does when I'm standing- that's my theory anyway!

    I'm going to ask about a higher dose of doxy to see if that helps- I'm still doing better on the 50 mg/day but I wonder if I can increase my results.

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