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Thread: My SD Arsenal (also makeup for men WTF)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sejon View Post
    Status report:

    As of the past few days, I've noticed that the erythema on my face has intensified and spread to areas that were previously not red. Even my forehead, which heretofore had always remained clear, is beginning to turn a slight pink, and more so in my glabella (I like that word, glabella). There's also a very slight sensation of warmth all over my face, which I suppose would go hand in hand with this level of inflammation. I don't notice any increase in itchiness, however, but itchiness has seldom been a problem for me except on my scalp when my dandruff was especially bad, and maybe the occasional itch on my nasolabial folds.

    Under normal circumstances I'd be absolutely freaking out now, but instead of panic I just feel concern. It of course helps that I can use Dermablend to mask the redness to great effect as I have been doing, but obviously simply covering up a problem isn't solving it.

    The main reason I'm trying to maintain my cool is because I recall reading in Tom Busby's posts that an increased level of inflammation is actually showing that the anti-fungal treatment is working. The azole family of anti-fungals (of which climbazole is a member) works by eroding the fungus' cell walls. This would then cause the body's immune system to recognise the yeast as a foreign entity and react with inflammation. My guess is that the yeast's colonies are all over my face, even across areas that in the past showed no signs of erythema, which would explain why even my forehead is becoming pink now.

    There are a few things that would support this:

    1.) I've never experienced such a rapid intensification and spread of redness before. My nasolabial folds and chin crease became redder slowly over the course of several months to a year, at an imperceptible pace, but with what's happening now I've noticed a drastic escalation in just a matter of days. This doesn't seem like the natural course of my dermatitis but rather that my skin is reacting to something.

    2.) My face routine has been the same for a few months now -- just azelaic acid gel (for my acne, on a nightly basis) and Cerave PM moisturiser -- save for the inclusion of two topicals which I started two weeks ago: the anti-fungal Bioderma lotion mentioned in my first post and a 10% crotamiton lotion.

    I know, it's bad form to include more than one topical into a routine at around the same time -- it's better to space them out so you can eliminate them if you have a reaction. However, the crotamiton lotion was never intended for long-term use -- it's just a trial period of 2-4 weeks to rule out demodex involvement. As it's been two weeks I'm considering removing it because according to the study I was basing this on I should have noticed a reduction in erythema by now. Instead it has in fact worsened, so I now suspect with more certainty that the culprit is Malassezia.

    I'm concluding (with fingers crossed) that this is a sign that the climbazole in the Bioderma lotion is attacking the yeasts.

    I hope Tom Busby can weigh in on this? Is this to be expected? And if so, is it possible to guesstimate how long this initial worsening will last before my face starts to calm down?

    Thanks again for all your help! Your information has been invaluable.
    Hmm, makeup. In times of desperation I think about it, but I've never seriously considered wearing any. Your testament interests me though. The erythema also eventually spread to my forehead, which was the last place for SD to settle.

    The one reason I think I would never try makeup is that I have extremely oily skin, and have to blot it constantly throughout the day. I am afraid this will remove makeup and leave me with a streaky, noticeable residue on my face. Also, getting caught wearing makeup by my friends or family or whoever seems like a worse outcome for me than just having crummy skin. I would only consider it with some more affirmation from you.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinislife446 View Post
    Hmm, makeup. In times of desperation I think about it, but I've never seriously considered wearing any. Your testament interests me though. The erythema also eventually spread to my forehead, which was the last place for SD to settle.

    The one reason I think I would never try makeup is that I have extremely oily skin, and have to blot it constantly throughout the day. I am afraid this will remove makeup and leave me with a streaky, noticeable residue on my face. Also, getting caught wearing makeup by my friends or family or whoever seems like a worse outcome for me than just having crummy skin. I would only consider it with some more affirmation from you.
    I have extremely oily skin and have to blot often as well. The Dermablend has good staying power -- if I put it on in the morning it's still there by nighttime, although perhaps slightly more faded by then (but certainly not streaky, so it's still not obvious that I'm wearing it). They also have a setting powder designed to be used on top of the foundation, which increases its staying power and mattifies the skin a bit. So if you worry about it melting off using the powder would give you some added assurance.

    One thing is that I don't know how well it would stay if I'm sweating a lot, but since it's the winter here and I only exercise at home while I'm not wearing it I haven't tested that out.


    Another status report:

    When I woke up this morning I discovered that the increased redness all over my face has calmed down. I'm still quite pink, to be sure, but it's nowhere near as bad as it was the past 2-3 days where I looked like I had fallen asleep on a beach in the Caribbean for a few hours (when in fact I'm in England and it's winter). I'm still a bit clueless as to what caused it, but my supposition remains that it's my immune system finally beginning to identify the Malassezia yeast after having incorporated the Bioderma cream (with climbazole and piroctone olamine) into my routine.

    However, during the days of heightened inflammation I was developing a bothersome itchy burning sensation which compelled me to look for any kind of fast-acting treatment for relief. I rummaged through my assortment of creams I had stored away, came across a tube of hydrocortisone, exclaimed "No way José!" because I avoid topical corticosteroids on my face at all costs due to the horror stories I've heard, and as I threw it aside triumphantly I noticed a tube of Lotrimin Ultra (with the antifungal ingredient butenafine). I had bought it a while back after reading Jeff's posts in this forum raving about it, yet had never gotten around to trying it, partly because climbazole was brought to my attention and my focus shifted to that, but also because previous use of other antifungal creams was not only ineffective but also clogged my pores and made a mess of my face wherever I applied them. But I checked the ingredients of the Lotrimin Ultra tube and was ecstatic to see that the dreaded "isopropyl myristate" (the highly comedogenic ingredient found in most antifungal creams that my skin simply does not approve of) was nowhere to be found. Hooray!

    So, in addition to my regular routine of applying Bioderma cream nightly, I've been applying Lotrimin Ultra morning and night for the past 3 days. I don't know if that's responsible for my skin calming down, but I'm going to keep using it regardless for at least another week or two, or perhaps even longer with the hope that I can eradicate my visible symptoms almost entirely and fall back on climbazole/piroctone olamine for the long-term "maintenance mode".

    The only issue is that I find the Lotrimin Ultra cream too thick and difficult to spread, so I'm going to get my hands on some MCT oil (and xylitol for good measure, since it's so cheap) and with that compound a very basic butenafine-based antifungal lotion. The relative amounts for my first mixture will probably be 15% MCT, 2% Xylitol, and the rest the Lotrimin Ultra.

    I like this approach because after years of trial and error dealing with acne I've learnt the importance of combination therapy, especially in the treatment phase (when you're in maintenance phase you're better positioned to rely on just one thing). If I'm using the Bioderma cream and Lotrimin Ultra concurrently I'm attacking SD with climbazole, piroctone olamine, and butenafine, each of which employs a different mechanism of action. Malassezia will cower before my might.

    I'll continue to use this thread for my status updates so I can let everyone know how things develop with this regimen. Here's to hoping the inclusion of butenafine will speed up the healing process that (presumably) the climbazole and piroctone olamine have started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sejon View Post
    Hey everyone, I wanted to just give a status report on what I'm doing to tackle my SD problems in case it proves useful to anyone else.

    To give a quick overview, my SD started as dandruff on my scalp which eventually migrated to my sideburns and beard and moustache. Flakiness was a fairly bad problem -- I remember how rubbing my sideburns would precipitate a heavy never-ending snowfall of flakes. It was not pleasant. However, that was months ago, and I'm relieved to report that now flakiness has been pretty much a non-issue for me ever since I switched to more heavy duty anti-dandruff shampoos (first to one that contained selenium sulphide, then ketoconazole, and finally settled on one with climbazole).

    The only symptom of my SD that remains a problem is erythema (i.e. redness). It manifests itself as a diffuse pinkness emanating from my central face (minus the forehead), and is more intense on the sides of my nose and the crease of my chin. Basically it looks like I have a permanent mild sunburn. While flakiness/dandruff was treated with stunning results after a matter of days, the erythema lingers. My hope is that consistent application of a topical anti-fungal lotion will relieve it over time, though I have no clue how long that might be. From what I've read of Tom Busby's findings it could be a matter of months to a year.

    However, I'm at least content to have found a system that tides me over in the meantime and allows me to be patient. I've attached a photo of the things I'm using.

    Attachment 3873

    1.) The first is Bioderma Sensibio DS+ Cream. Here are the ingredients:

    Aqua, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Propylene Glycol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Dimethicone, Glycyrrhetinic Acid, Sorbitan Sesquioleate, Piroctone Olamine, Glyceryl Undecylenate, Climbazole, Mannitol, Xylitol, Rhamnose, Fructooligosaccharides, Laminaria Ochroleuca Extract, Cetyl Alcohol, Carbomer, Sclerotium Gum, Sodium Hydroxide, Phenoxyethanol

    The positive is that it contains several ingredients touted on these boards as being helpful: piroctone olamine, xylitol, and, most of all, climbazole. In fact it's the only face lotion I've come across that has climbazole. On the other hand there is the concern that it also contains coconut oil. Maybe the fact that it contains two potent anti-fungal actives (climbazole and piroctone olamine) will outweigh the potential setback of it also containing an oil that theoretically feeds the Malassezia yeast? Only time will tell whether that's true or not. If it fails I will probably fall back on the Ducray Kelual DS cream, which has piroctone olamine but lacks climbazole (however it also lacks any problematic oils). If only the Bioderma cream removed the coconut oil or the Ducray cream added climbazole. *sigh*

    The inclusion of coconut oil also made me sceptical at first because I thought it would give it a very viscous texture. As I also suffer from acne, I tend to avoid thick lotions at all costs because they might clog my pores and wreak havoc on my face (previous use of other anti-fungal creams has confirmed this). However the Bioderma cream is surprisingly not creamy at all and rubs in like a light gel. Regardless, to err on the side of caution I did a patch-test in case it proved to be comedogenic for me, so I just applied it around my nose for the first week, and as I didn't notice any clogged pores after that I deemed it safe enough to start applying to my entire face.

    I apply it on a nightly basis. I don't apply it in the morning because I fear that it might make my face a bit shinier during the day (though I can't tell if that's true especially as it's so much lighter than I was expecting), and I have an oily face as is. But at night right before bed I don't really care about that.

    2.) The second is E45 Dry Scalp Anti Dandruff Shampoo, which I'm sure most people here are already familiar with as it's mentioned on this board as a gentler climbazole-based alternative to Hegor shampoos. I use this 2-3 times a week, mostly for my scalp but I also bring some of the lather to my beard/moustache, and occasionally as a body wash as well since I very occasionally get a small rash on my central chest which I assume is also SD. I haven't gotten that rash since doing this. *knocks on wood that it stays that way*

    (There's a big piece of tape wrapped around my E45 bottle because the dog bit into it when the postman delivered it. Such a stereotypical dog.)

    3.) The third is a konjac sponge. I find these little guys to be quite useful to exfoliate with, and this is coming from someone who tries to be so gentle with his skin that any kind of physical exfoliation seems blasphemous. They're rock solid when dry but when soaked with water they become very soft. I very gently rub starting from the central face outwards. As I said, flakiness is generally no longer a problem for me but I think the konjac sponge helps get rid of whatever few flakes there might be hiding in my facial hair. I only use it once a week -- any more often than that and I'd worry about possible irritation.

    4.) The fourth might seem slightly odd coming from a heterosexual male (though it is the 21st century...) because it's makeup. I prefer to call it "tinted sunscreen" as that sounds a bit more masculine, heh. It's called Dermablend Corrective Fluid Foundation (with SPF 35). Honestly, it has been a godsend for me because it masks the redness and makes me look normal again. Just as importantly, it looks very natural so I don't end up looking like I'm wearing makeup (which, let's face it, for most guys would be considerably more embarrassing than a slightly ruddy complexion).

    It comes in a small 30 ml tube but I already know that this is going to last me ages because I only use a very small amount (half a pea size). I squeeze it out on to the back of my hand, rub it around a bit to warm it up and thin it out, and then start dabbing it very thinly on my face mostly where redness is the issue. Then I use a wedge sponge and start patting all over my face with it to even it out -- I find this works far better and faster than just using my fingers. The whole process literally takes just a couple of minutes and I'm done. Then just some quick eyeliner and lipstick... *joking*

    It took a bit of trial and error with sample sizes of different shades (which I ordered off ebay), but once I found the shade that was right for me and tried it out for the first time I ended up staring at the mirror for several minutes gawking in sheer astonishment that something so quick and simple could make such a dramatic difference. And with added sun protection to boot!

    I don't know how useful this would be to everyone. Obviously if flakiness is your concern then covering it up isn't going to help. But for those who are suffering from redness like myself, I'd urge you to consider it (yes, even men). It's given me my confidence back, so societal gender norms be damned.


    Hope this information helps! I also hope that after a few months of regular usage of the Bioderma cream I will be able to report back with positive results concerning the erythema. Until then, *quickly kisses his Dermablend tube and tucks it away furtively* >_>
    I can back this guy's claim on DermaBlend. Been part of my seb derm arsenal for years, a pea drop can be very effective. My skin was finally normal looking again. And hey he's right, it is tinted sunscreen! I have been called out on it twice in the 4 years I've used it, so remember rub that **** in and don't get carried away. A little goes a long way.
    Last edited by vinnyt; 24th January 2016 at 03:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyt View Post
    I can back this guy's claim on DermaBlend. Been part of my seb derm arsenal for years, a pea drop can be very effective. My skin was finally normal looking again. And hey he's right, it is tinted sunscreen! I have been called out on it twice in the 4 years I've used it, so remember rub that **** in and don't get carried away. A little goes a long way.
    Hi vinnyt, glad to hear I'm not the only one who's come across this little gem. And you're right -- minimalism is the key here. That's why I said my little 30 ml tube is going to last me ages, because I try to use as little as possible. Even spread out thinly it still manages to cover really effectively.


    Status report:

    I'm going to reduce my use of Lotrimin Ultra to only at night, because I find it too thick and greasy to have on during the day. During the day really all I want on my face is a light moisturiser (like a pea-sized amount of Cerave PM) and the Dermablend (if I find it necessary). But nighttime is treatment time, so that's when I apply azelaic acid (for acne) and the Bioderma and Lotrimin Ultra (for SD).



    I don't know if anyone else here has tried out the Bioderma Sensibio DS+ Cream that I'm using and had any success with it? Or does the fact that it includes a food-grade oil for Malassezia (the coconut oil) put people off? I understand that, thanks to Tom Busby's research, we've learnt that we ought to avoid oils that feed the yeast, and with this knowledge it makes sense to view any topicals with these offending ingredients with a sceptical eye, but the pressing question that remains is: given that the selection of SD-fighting lotions available to us is already extremely limited, should we even avoid those that in addition to their anti-fungal ingredients also might contain a food source for Malassezia? To put it another way -- two steps forward, one step backward isn't ideal, but it's still progress.

    (This of course applies only to those of us who for various reasons don't consider compounding their own lotion an option and instead must rely on commercially available lotions.)

    I guess with the Bioderma cream I'm acting as a guinea pig to find out if the "step forward" of the anti-fungals it includes will ultimately outpace the "step backward" of the coconut oil. If it does work in my case, then at least we have one commercially available climbazole lotion that we can recommend, which is better than none at all.

    On the subject of Bioderma, I was also looking at their Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel which has the following ingredients:

    AQUA/WATER/EAU, SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE, COCOBETAINE, SODIUM LAUROYL SARCOSINATE, MANNITOL, XYLITOL, RHAMNOSE, FRUCTOOLIGOSACCHARIDES, LAMINARIA OCHROLEUCA EXTRACT, ZINC GLUCONATE, PEG-90 GLYCERYL ISOSTEARATE, SODIUM CHLORIDE, COCO-GLUCOSIDE, GLYCERYL OLEATE, CAPRYLOYL GLYCINE, DECYLENE GLYCOL, CAPRYLIC/CAPRIC TRIGLYCERIDE, LAURETH-2, AMMONIUM GLYCYRRHIZATE, LYSINE AZELATE, PYRIDOXINE HCL, UNDECYL ALCOHOL, CITRIC ACID, DISODIUM EDTA, SODIUM HYDROXIDE.

    Can anyone, particularly Tom, identify what ingredients have been included here that are potentially useful against SD? To my untrained eye only xylitol seems to stand out, which makes me wonder if simply adding xylitol to my current cleanser (Cerave Foaming Cleanser) would work just as well?

    Thanks for the help!
    Last edited by sejon; 24th January 2016 at 11:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sejon View Post
    Hi vinnyt, glad to hear I'm not the only one who's come across this little gem. And you're right -- minimalism is the key here. That's why I said my little 30 ml tube is going to last me ages, because I try to use as little as possible. Even spread out thinly it still manages to cover really effectively.


    Status report:

    I'm going to reduce my use of Lotrimin Ultra to only at night, because I find it too thick and greasy to have on during the day. During the day really all I want on my face is a light moisturiser (like a pea-sized amount of Cerave PM) and the Dermablend (if I find it necessary). But nighttime is treatment time, so that's when I apply azelaic acid (for acne) and the Bioderma and Lotrimin Ultra (for SD).



    I don't know if anyone else here has tried out the Bioderma Sensibio DS+ Cream that I'm using and had any success with it? Or does the fact that it includes a food-grade oil for Malassezia (the coconut oil) put people off? I understand that, thanks to Tom Busby's research, we've learnt that we ought to avoid oils that feed the yeast, and with this knowledge it makes sense to view any topicals with these offending ingredients with a sceptical eye, but the pressing question that remains is: given that the selection of SD-fighting lotions available to us is already extremely limited, should we even avoid those that in addition to their anti-fungal ingredients also might contain a food source for Malassezia? To put it another way -- two steps forward, one step backward isn't ideal, but it's still progress.

    (This of course applies only to those of us who for various reasons don't consider compounding their own lotion an option and instead must rely on commercially available lotions.)

    I guess with the Bioderma cream I'm acting as a guinea pig to find out if the "step forward" of the anti-fungals it includes will ultimately outpace the "step backward" of the coconut oil. If it does work in my case, then at least we have one commercially available climbazole lotion that we can recommend, which is better than none at all.

    On the subject of Bioderma, I was also looking at their Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel which has the following ingredients:

    AQUA/WATER/EAU, SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE, COCOBETAINE, SODIUM LAUROYL SARCOSINATE, MANNITOL, XYLITOL, RHAMNOSE, FRUCTOOLIGOSACCHARIDES, LAMINARIA OCHROLEUCA EXTRACT, ZINC GLUCONATE, PEG-90 GLYCERYL ISOSTEARATE, SODIUM CHLORIDE, COCO-GLUCOSIDE, GLYCERYL OLEATE, CAPRYLOYL GLYCINE, DECYLENE GLYCOL, CAPRYLIC/CAPRIC TRIGLYCERIDE, LAURETH-2, AMMONIUM GLYCYRRHIZATE, LYSINE AZELATE, PYRIDOXINE HCL, UNDECYL ALCOHOL, CITRIC ACID, DISODIUM EDTA, SODIUM HYDROXIDE.

    Can anyone, particularly Tom, identify what ingredients have been included here that are potentially useful against SD? To my untrained eye only xylitol seems to stand out, which makes me wonder if simply adding xylitol to my current cleanser (Cerave Foaming Cleanser) would work just as well?

    Thanks for the help!

    Good post. I would be interested in hearing your results and answers to your questions. I currently use coconut oil in the morning and salcura zeoderm at night. It has been working pretty well for me, but I'm always willing to experiment to improve my regimen.

  6. #16
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    Hi sejon, about a year ago, Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel was reformulated to remove climbazole and pitoctone olamine.

    The old version of Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel is shown here: http://www.amazon.com/Bioderma-Sensi.../dp/B0061WJOXA and it shows these ingredients:
    water (aqua), sodium laureth sulfate, lauryl glucoside, glycerin, propylene glycol, peg-150 distearate, sodium lauroyl oat amino acids, polysorbate 20, climbazole, piroctone olamine, glyceryl undecylenate, lactic acid, mannitol, xylitol, rhamnose, fructooligosaccharides, disodium edta, sodium hydroxide, phenoxyethanol.

    Both old and new versions contain plant sugar alcohols, (mannitol, xylitol, rhamnose, and fructooligosaccharides). You asked about xylitol. We’ll need to try to figure out how much xylitol is found in Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel. An analysis follows.

    The new version, lacking climbazole and piroctone olamine, also doesn’t have propylene glycol, which was probably used to solubilize climbazole and piroctone olamine. However, propylene glycol is “bad” in a foaming cleanser because it kills the foam, even at low concentrations. Therefore, reasoning from the old version, and knowing that propylene glycol would kill all foaming action if it were greater than 1%, we can assume everything that follows propylene glycol is less than 1%, and can therefore be listed in any order and still comply with cosmetic labeling regulations. Further assuming that the plant sugar concentrations in the old and new versions remain the same, therefore, the amount of xylitol in both the old and the new formula is less than 1% -- not very much.

    More significantly, xylitol is different from other plant sugar alcohols because xylitol is non-fermentable. Fermentation is the nutritional term for the growth of yeasts (fungi), and reasoning by analogy from candida studies, the hypothesis is that xylitol prevents fungal growth by malassezia, because it prevents single-celled free-floating (sessile) malassezia from transforming into the 2nd stage of rooted-branching (hyphal) colonies.

    I had previously applied the term biofilm to describe this hyphal colony-adhesion to the skin, but I now believe that the adhesiveness of malassezia colonies is best described as the hyphal phase becoming rooted into the stratum corneum -- Occam’s razor, because there doesn’t seem to be any bacterial component -- malassezia colonies in the hyphal phase are simply extremely sticky.

    To answer your question about using Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel, your observation is correct -- it would be simpler to add 2% Xylitol to any product, because xylitol is water soluble, and the remaining ingredients in Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel aren’t important to an anti-malassezia topical treatment program, in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Busby View Post
    Hi sejon, about a year ago, Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel was reformulated to remove climbazole and pitoctone olamine.

    The old version of Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel is shown here: http://www.amazon.com/Bioderma-Sensi.../dp/B0061WJOXA and it shows these ingredients:
    water (aqua), sodium laureth sulfate, lauryl glucoside, glycerin, propylene glycol, peg-150 distearate, sodium lauroyl oat amino acids, polysorbate 20, climbazole, piroctone olamine, glyceryl undecylenate, lactic acid, mannitol, xylitol, rhamnose, fructooligosaccharides, disodium edta, sodium hydroxide, phenoxyethanol.

    Both old and new versions contain plant sugar alcohols, (mannitol, xylitol, rhamnose, and fructooligosaccharides). You asked about xylitol. We’ll need to try to figure out how much xylitol is found in Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel. An analysis follows.

    The new version, lacking climbazole and piroctone olamine, also doesn’t have propylene glycol, which was probably used to solubilize climbazole and piroctone olamine. However, propylene glycol is “bad” in a foaming cleanser because it kills the foam, even at low concentrations. Therefore, reasoning from the old version, and knowing that propylene glycol would kill all foaming action if it were greater than 1%, we can assume everything that follows propylene glycol is less than 1%, and can therefore be listed in any order and still comply with cosmetic labeling regulations. Further assuming that the plant sugar concentrations in the old and new versions remain the same, therefore, the amount of xylitol in both the old and the new formula is less than 1% -- not very much.

    More significantly, xylitol is different from other plant sugar alcohols because xylitol is non-fermentable. Fermentation is the nutritional term for the growth of yeasts (fungi), and reasoning by analogy from candida studies, the hypothesis is that xylitol prevents fungal growth by malassezia, because it prevents single-celled free-floating (sessile) malassezia from transforming into the 2nd stage of rooted-branching (hyphal) colonies.

    I had previously applied the term biofilm to describe this hyphal colony-adhesion to the skin, but I now believe that the adhesiveness of malassezia colonies is best described as the hyphal phase becoming rooted into the stratum corneum -- Occam’s razor, because there doesn’t seem to be any bacterial component -- malassezia colonies in the hyphal phase are simply extremely sticky.

    To answer your question about using Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel, your observation is correct -- it would be simpler to add 2% Xylitol to any product, because xylitol is water soluble, and the remaining ingredients in Sensibio DS+ Cleansing Gel aren’t important to an anti-malassezia topical treatment program, in my opinion.
    Such a thorough analysis! Thanks so much, Tom. It's good to know that I'd probably be better off sticking with my Cerave Foaming Cleanser -- since I've sworn by it as a non-irritating cleanser for a while now -- and simply adding xylitol into it to give it some anti-Malassezia oomph.

    I'll let you all know of my progress using the Bioderma cream. It's the only climbazole lotion one can find at the moment so I think it deserves a proper trial.

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    Status report:

    Been roughly 2 weeks since I started applying the Bioderma lotion to my face nightly.

    Redness around my face is gradually fading. Just over a week ago it looked like a bad sunburn and I felt a lot of heat on my face -- now it's just a bit pink. Such a drastic recovery, which is a relief.

    I've noticed a bit of flakiness happening on my nose creases and the sides of my mouth. As mentioned before, flakiness has hardly been a problem for me (it used to be in my scalp, sideburns, and beard but I've kept that under control by using anti-dandruff shampoo) but the fact that it's happening a bit more on these areas of my face could mean that what I'm doing is working and that the yeast colonies are slowly sloughing off.

    Overall I am very optimistic.

    Here's my routine:

    AM

    • Cleanse wih Cerave Foaming Cleanser (mixed with 2% xylitol)
    • Sebamed Clear Face Gel*
    • Dermablend (if I'm going out)


    PM

    • Cleanse wih Cerave Foaming Cleanser (mixed with 2% xylitol)
    • Skinoren 15% Azelaic Acid Gel
    • Bioderma cream mixed with Cerave PM
    • Lotrimin Ultra (only for next couple weeks)


    And every other day I use the E45 shampoo (also mixed with 2% xylitol).

    *I use the Sebamed Clear Face Gel as a daytime moisturiser because it's by the far the lightest moisturiser I've found (I have an oily face so the lighter the better). It has a very simple ingredients list and shouldn't aggravate SD. Here are the ingredients for anyone who's interested:

    Aqua, Aloe barbadensis leaf gel, Propylene Glycol, Glycerin, Sorbitol, Panthenol, Sodium Hyaluronate, Allantoin, Sodium Carbomer, Sodium Citrate, Phenoxyethanol, Sorbic Acid.
    Last edited by sejon; 29th January 2016 at 12:52 PM.

  9. #19
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    Aug 2014
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    Country: United States

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    Quote Originally Posted by sejon View Post
    Status report:

    Been roughly 2 weeks since I started applying the Bioderma lotion to my face nightly.

    Redness around my face is gradually fading. Just over a week ago it looked like a bad sunburn and I felt a lot of heat on my face -- now it's just a bit pink. Such a drastic recovery, which is a relief.

    I've noticed a bit of flakiness happening on my nose creases and the sides of my mouth. As mentioned before, flakiness has hardly been a problem for me (it used to be in my scalp, sideburns, and beard but I've kept that under control by using anti-dandruff shampoo) but the fact that it's happening a bit more on these areas of my face could mean that what I'm doing is working and that the yeast colonies are slowly sloughing off.

    Overall I am very optimistic.

    Here's my routine:

    AM

    • Cleanse wih Cerave Foaming Cleanser (mixed with 2% xylitol)
    • Sebamed Clear Face Gel*
    • Dermablend (if I'm going out)


    PM

    • Cleanse wih Cerave Foaming Cleanser (mixed with 2% xylitol)
    • Skinoren 15% Azelaic Acid Gel
    • Bioderma cream mixed with Cerave PM
    • Lotrimin Ultra (only for next couple weeks)


    And every other day I use the E45 shampoo (also mixed with 2% xylitol).

    *I use the Sebamed Clear Face Gel as a daytime moisturiser because it's by the far the lightest moisturiser I've found (I have an oily face so the lighter the better). It has a very simple ingredients list and shouldn't aggravate SD. Here are the ingredients for anyone who's interested:

    Aqua, Aloe barbadensis leaf gel, Propylene Glycol, Glycerin, Sorbitol, Panthenol, Sodium Hyaluronate, Allantoin, Sodium Carbomer, Sodium Citrate, Phenoxyethanol, Sorbic Acid.

    Nose creases are the worst for me when it comes to flakiness. I just about never goes away and itches. That area is how I know I have not gotten rid of my SD just because I'm having a good week on other areas of my face.

    So I ordered the makeup samples off Ebay like you said. It hasn't come yet, but I already regret doing it because 1. I have flaky skin and I've been doing tons of research on makeup and found that foundation can make flakes stand out and turn orange and 2. I read that foundation alone can make pimples stand out more sometimes. I don't think I could pull off the makeup while having pimples. It would be too obvious that I'm wearing foundation when people see bumps with no redness and I really don't want to have to apply concealer under it. IDK, but that's what I think. I'm also worried it might break me out. I have very acne-prone, oily skin.

    I got 5 shades, so I'm still going to try it. I've been reading into tinted moisturizers, which seem more up my alley. They are almost like foundation but milder.

    How do you remove the makeup? Cleanser? I use a DIY oatmeal cleanser in the morning (which I know won't remove it) and the e45 at night. I'm hoping the e45 would remove it, because I really don't want to use a commercial cleanser or makeup remover.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinislife446 View Post
    Nose creases are the worst for me when it comes to flakiness. I just about never goes away and itches. That area is how I know I have not gotten rid of my SD just because I'm having a good week on other areas of my face.

    So I ordered the makeup samples off Ebay like you said. It hasn't come yet, but I already regret doing it because 1. I have flaky skin and I've been doing tons of research on makeup and found that foundation can make flakes stand out and turn orange and 2. I read that foundation alone can make pimples stand out more sometimes. I don't think I could pull off the makeup while having pimples. It would be too obvious that I'm wearing foundation when people see bumps with no redness and I really don't want to have to apply concealer under it. IDK, but that's what I think. I'm also worried it might break me out. I have very acne-prone, oily skin.

    I got 5 shades, so I'm still going to try it. I've been reading into tinted moisturizers, which seem more up my alley. They are almost like foundation but milder.

    How do you remove the makeup? Cleanser? I use a DIY oatmeal cleanser in the morning (which I know won't remove it) and the e45 at night. I'm hoping the e45 would remove it, because I really don't want to use a commercial cleanser or makeup remover.
    Your issue with the nose creases is very similar to mine, except replace "flakiness" with "redness". The redness around my face seems to fluctuate, but the sides of my nose (and the crease of my chin) are permanently red. Granted, flakiness in these two areas has reemerged as an issue as of late, but I continue to interpret that as a positive sign that the fungal colonies are being sloughed off. I just have no clue how long this "sloughing" phase will last, but judging from what Tom Busby's said I need to expect a few months of this at least.

    I haven't noticed this slight flakiness becoming more conspicuous after applying the Dermablend -- certainly the flakes don't turn orange. I'd say that the Dermablend makes these white flakes slightly less obvious just because they blend into my skin more if my skin is lighter and not so red or pink. However if flakiness is a much larger issue for someone I have my doubts that foundation is going to help. Again, my issue by far remains the redness and Dermablend addresses this exceedingly well.

    I don't have any personal experience with using Dermablend on skin with pimples because my acne had completely cleared up shortly before I started using it (I mostly thank the Skinoren gel for that -- it's been a godsend for my acne woes and I wish I had replaced benzoyl peroxide with azelaic acid years ago). However, the company claims that covering acne up is one of its purposes, so it's probably worth a shot to see how you find it.

    The first time I tried Dermablend it was a shade or two too light, I used too much, and I patted it on with my fingers. It looked awful, and I had almost decided to give up thinking the whole "foundation" idea was a fool's errand. Obviously getting the shade wrong is a big mistake, but I also couldn't seem to apply it evenly enough with my fingers so it'd just cake up in areas. Once I had found a more appropriate shade, the other important discoveries were:

    1.) Be very sparing with the amount you use, because a little goes a loooong way. I barely squeeze any of it out of the tube.
    2.) The tiny amount you use should be squeezed onto the back of your hand and rubbed around to thin it out and warm it up. Then I thinly dab some of it on the redder, central parts of my face.
    3.) Then I use a makeup sponge and start patting away. I discovered that using the sponge distributes it much more evenly and quickly than you'll ever be able to do with your fingers. I use a disposable wedge sponge for this and it makes a huge difference.

    Clearly you'll need to experiment and see for yourself, but I suspect that with an extremely minimalist approach it ought to be okay with acne, because your goal would be to simply tone down their redness rather than completely cover them up.

    My Cerave Foaming Cleanser seems to be sufficient to remove it -- maybe because I apply the foundation conservatively. If I did have any problems with removing it, I'd use a couple drops of the MCT oil I had bought. Oils are supposedly extremely good at removing makeup, and MCT oil is the only oil us SD sufferers can use with the peace of mind that it won't aggravate the condition.

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