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Thread: Flushing when eating... anything

  1. #11
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    I think you'll be fine. Dr Crouch is an expert at this - so I'm sure he'll make sure your skin is well protected and cooled. Since this is your first treatment, he'll likely used gentle settings. So your test patch should be just fine. But I would impress upon him what you're flushing is like - so he can treat accordingly.

    If I remember correctly, Dr Crouch does a three-pass protocol - using three different settings. So hopefully this should work well for you.

    I know the waiting is a real drag. I have my next laser on the 20th and feel like - hurry up already! I can't stand the down time in between treatments.

  2. #12
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    Hi hg24 -

    Would you mind telling me about your experience with IPL and or/laser? I a wondering if done in the proper hands, if it would help me again. But right now I am far too afraid.

    wendykay

    Quote Originally Posted by hg24 View Post
    I think you'll be fine. Dr Crouch is an expert at this - so I'm sure he'll make sure your skin is well protected and cooled. Since this is your first treatment, he'll likely used gentle settings. So your test patch should be just fine. But I would impress upon him what you're flushing is like - so he can treat accordingly.

    If I remember correctly, Dr Crouch does a three-pass protocol - using three different settings. So hopefully this should work well for you.

    I know the waiting is a real drag. I have my next laser on the 20th and feel like - hurry up already! I can't stand the down time in between treatments.

  3. #13
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    I know it doesn't seem like a gastric issue but I really think a lot of rosacea is tied to that. I am seeing a naturopath and she ordered a stool test that can be used to see if you secrete enough digestive enzymes, if you have enough beneficial bacteria or are colonized with pathogenic bacteria or parasites, etc. If you are they can change the permeability of your gut lining and basically you eventually would show allergic response to every food as it gets worse and worse. Diet changes might help but might not completely eradicate the culprit if you have something like that going on. Though it might seem like a wild goose chase, I think it would benefit you to at least rule it out by having some tests done. The tests may be expensive but potentially less than laser treatments especially if you have to get multiple sessions. Something to think about.

  4. #14
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    Hi Ellys,

    I used to have the same. Flushing upon eating and clearly not linked to what I was eating. I could never really understand the cause of it though I feel it was linked to sort of a digestive strain induced by the very fact of eating. I got rid of it with clonidine. I've been taking it for almost years and though I feel it does not really help me anymore with flushing (though who knows how I would do without it) i keep taking it because it keeps this eating flush at bay.

  5. #15
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    Hi wendykay, I'm a severe flusher, so I've had a lot of lasers and IPL over the years. Most of my treatments for my rosacea include medications and supplements - and most importantly, a good diet and good hydration.

    Our flushing and conditions can be so different that it's hard to recommend a laser or IPL to you. I've had purpura Vbeam. I've also had non-purpura. For me, I didn't see a big difference between the two with my particular rosacea. Both helped. IPL helped with my flushing and burning. A little bit with redness, but I hit a wall on progress. So I recently went to a KTP laser - Cutera Excel V. It was great. Really responded well. I'll be getting another one soon.

    I think the lasers/IPL can help significantly. But I also think that they can't do it all. So keeping a good diet, getting help from meds/supplements, skincare etc - all important tools. No sense having a treatment if you're going to trigger your condition with other things post laser.

    I've learned through trial and error that the person doing the treatment is everything. So experienced doctors have always delivered results for me.

    I definitely think lasers and IPL can be overwhelming. It's such a difficult recovery after first - until you're used to it. Now, it's like whatever. I've got the whole recovery thing down pat.

    All you can do is try it and see what you think. But for me it's been worth it. Hope this helped!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwemm View Post
    I know it doesn't seem like a gastric issue but I really think a lot of rosacea is tied to that. I am seeing a naturopath and she ordered a stool test that can be used to see if you secrete enough digestive enzymes, if you have enough beneficial bacteria or are colonized with pathogenic bacteria or parasites, etc. If you are they can change the permeability of your gut lining and basically you eventually would show allergic response to every food as it gets worse and worse. Diet changes might help but might not completely eradicate the culprit if you have something like that going on. Though it might seem like a wild goose chase, I think it would benefit you to at least rule it out by having some tests done. The tests may be expensive but potentially less than laser treatments especially if you have to get multiple sessions. Something to think about.
    Hi lwemm, thanks for the suggestions. I really wish I had your faith in the role of the gut flora, etc, but after lots of urine and stool and blood tests, and seeing Ayuverdic and Chinese practitioners and trying to eat healthily and using probiotics and supplements, etc, etc, and seeing no positive results, I no longer think diet is an issue for me. The problem is surely just skin barrier and blood vessel damage? It sounds like you have seen positive results though - and I envy you for that! ;). The one thing i do try to limit is sugar in the diet, so perhaps I contradict myself when I say it is irrelevant...

    One thing I observed this morning is that breakfast doesn't seem to generate so much heat in my face. Perhaps as the day wears on, the heat just builds up, and any eating exacerbates it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllyS View Post
    Hi lwemm, thanks for the suggestions. I really wish I had your faith in the role of the gut flora, etc, but after lots of urine and stool and blood tests, and seeing Ayuverdic and Chinese practitioners and trying to eat healthily and using probiotics and supplements, etc, etc, and seeing no positive results, I no longer think diet is an issue for me. The problem is surely just skin barrier and blood vessel damage? It sounds like you have seen positive results though - and I envy you for that! ;). The one thing i do try to limit is sugar in the diet, so perhaps I contradict myself when I say it is irrelevant...

    One thing I observed this morning is that breakfast doesn't seem to generate so much heat in my face. Perhaps as the day wears on, the heat just builds up, and any eating exacerbates it?
    EllyS,
    I apologize for assuming you hadn't gotten tests done re. gut issues to rule them out. I know from experience how it might be difficult to see the possibility of a gastrointestinal connection when your face gets into an almost constant flush mode and starts reacting to anything and everything and that is where I was coming from. You said you had used Mirvaso? It does seem then it has damaged your skin barrier and somehow the blood vessels and nerves just go wonky-- I do wish scientists could figure out exactly what is happening there. I do think our bodies become more reactive to stimuli as the day wears on. If you rest during the day does it help bring down the heat? I do hope the IPL will bring you relief and break the flushing cycle to start your face on the right track. You have my very best wishes.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwemm View Post
    EllyS,
    I apologize for assuming you hadn't gotten tests done re. gut issues to rule them out. I know from experience how it might be difficult to see the possibility of a gastrointestinal connection when your face gets into an almost constant flush mode and starts reacting to anything and everything and that is where I was coming from. You said you had used Mirvaso? It does seem then it has damaged your skin barrier and somehow the blood vessels and nerves just go wonky-- I do wish scientists could figure out exactly what is happening there. I do think our bodies become more reactive to stimuli as the day wears on. If you rest during the day does it help bring down the heat? I do hope the IPL will bring you relief and break the flushing cycle to start your face on the right track. You have my very best wishes.
    No need to apologise! I wish it were a gut flora thing.

    It's a curious thing about skin barrier: when I use a mild cream like Cetaphil lotion, my skin doesn't react badly to it, but I feel it is not doing any restoring of the barrier, yet when I use a cream with active ingredients, like CeraVe PM or another one with ceramides, etc, they irritate my skin after about a week's use, and I assume that is hardly the way to restore the barrier! Should I be persevering with these creams, nevertheless, in the hope my skin adapts to them? Or might the skin restore itself - over months - just be being shielded from irritants, and treated gently?? In the last four months my skin has not improved - in fact it has deteriorated (rosacea has spread to chin and upper chest). How long should/might it take for the skin barrier to be restored?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllyS View Post
    No need to apologise! I wish it were a gut flora thing.

    It's a curious thing about skin barrier: when I use a mild cream like Cetaphil lotion, my skin doesn't react badly to it, but I feel it is not doing any restoring of the barrier, yet when I use a cream with active ingredients, like CeraVe PM or another one with ceramides, etc, they irritate my skin after about a week's use, and I assume that is hardly the way to restore the barrier! Should I be persevering with these creams, nevertheless, in the hope my skin adapts to them? Or might the skin restore itself - over months - just be being shielded from irritants, and treated gently?? In the last four months my skin has not improved - in fact it has deteriorated (rosacea has spread to chin and upper chest). How long should/might it take for the skin barrier to be restored?
    I feel my skin barrier has become greatly restored over the course of the past 4 months. I've used mostly only natural ingredients so I can't offer thoughts on Cetaphil or CeraVe but I have waited for my skin to have some moisture before trying things like niacinamide, vit C or other harsher active ingredients and have stayed away from anything that causes any irritation in favor of those products that soothed. I could tell within a day or two if something was irritating or helping. Originally rich natural creams would soak into my skin immediately but now that my skin barrier is better I notice they sit on the surface longer and some of the oiliness that was characteristic of my skin previously is returning.

    Zinc oxide and colloidal oatmeal are two ingredients that have been soothing for me. I think when the skin is severely dried out and sensitive a less-is-more attitude is helpful rather than a no-pain-no-gain approach and so yes, I do think your skin will heal gradually if you shield it from irritants and bring down some of the inflammation. I don't believe in pushing through with irritation of any sort. What I noticed with my condition was a cycle of my triggers causing inflammation, which then led to dry cracked skin (skin barrier impairment) which caused the skin to be more reactive. Once I reduced the inflammation so it wasn't as great, nor as constantly occurring, the skin was able to retain moisture and heal itself. The colloidal oatmeal and zinc oxide seemed to help keep the skin less reactive.

    Have you tried that Neosporin Eczema Essentials cream that Hg is using? I used one that is similar called Aveeno Skin Relief Healing Ointment but it was more like vaseline than a moisturizer so it was better for emergency relief of areas of skin rather than something to smear over your whole face. The colloidal oatmeal definitely helps ease the stinging.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwemm View Post
    I feel my skin barrier has become greatly restored over the course of the past 4 months. I've used mostly only natural ingredients so I can't offer thoughts on Cetaphil or CeraVe but I have waited for my skin to have some moisture before trying things like niacinamide, vit C or other harsher active ingredients and have stayed away from anything that causes any irritation in favor of those products that soothed. I could tell within a day or two if something was irritating or helping. Originally rich natural creams would soak into my skin immediately but now that my skin barrier is better I notice they sit on the surface longer and some of the oiliness that was characteristic of my skin previously is returning.

    Zinc oxide and colloidal oatmeal are two ingredients that have been soothing for me. I think when the skin is severely dried out and sensitive a less-is-more attitude is helpful rather than a no-pain-no-gain approach and so yes, I do think your skin will heal gradually if you shield it from irritants and bring down some of the inflammation. I don't believe in pushing through with irritation of any sort. What I noticed with my condition was a cycle of my triggers causing inflammation, which then led to dry cracked skin (skin barrier impairment) which caused the skin to be more reactive. Once I reduced the inflammation so it wasn't as great, nor as constantly occurring, the skin was able to retain moisture and heal itself. The colloidal oatmeal and zinc oxide seemed to help keep the skin less reactive.

    Have you tried that Neosporin Eczema Essentials cream that Hg is using? I used one that is similar called Aveeno Skin Relief Healing Ointment but it was more like vaseline than a moisturizer so it was better for emergency relief of areas of skin rather than something to smear over your whole face. The colloidal oatmeal definitely helps ease the stinging.
    Helpful - and hopeful, thanks lwemm. In fact, I have a tube of Neosporin and started patch testing it yesterday. I also have Kalme day cream with Zinc Oxide that I have been testing on part of my face for over a week: no results either way (yet). What did you use apart from Aveeno, and what do you cleanse your face with?

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