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Thread: vbeam experience and advice

  1. #1
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    Default vbeam experience and advice

    Hey everyone, I just wanted to share my experience with using pulsed dye lasers “Vbeam” to treat rosacea. I have had vascular Rosacea since I was in my mid teens that got progressively worse over the years. At the age of 18 I decided that no topical was going to help the redness and searched for a Doctor who did pulsed dye laser treatments in Ireland.

    I found a clinic close by in Dublin city that had a Pulsed Dye Laser, I booked in for a consultation and a patch test. On the day of the patch test I asked the laser “Nurse” not Doctor to hit the spider veins around my nose, she dropped the pulse duration to 0.5ms “Cynosure Vstar Pulsed Dye Laser” and used too high of a fluence which ruptured the vessels on impact and left a deep purple bruise.

    3 days later the patch test area blistered but healed without scarring. What was left behind after the bruising went was this perfect blanched out area of redness, unfortunately the other long pulsed patch test areas did not respond.

    As I was desperate and didn’t know a lot about lasers I continued with treatments. After 3 sessions and no results I asked the laser Nurse to drop the pulse to 0.5 ms which she refused. She assured me that a 0.5ms would blister and scar the skin. When I brought published study’s in showing the safety and effectiveness of 0.45ms pulsed dye laser for rosacea I was told it was not necessary and the new laser would achieve the same effect.

    Anyway fast forward 2500 euro and nine treatments later the area around my nose did not blend in, and still had small telangiectasia all over my face. When I complained the laser Nurse told me “everybody has vessels”…. Everybody has not spent 2500 euro removing them!!

    Fast forward to 2015 I decided to look around and find a Doctor that could use a short pulse duration to treat my rosacea, and just a couple of months ago finally found one

    I just wanted to let everyone know why long Pulsed dye laser are so ineffective! The pulse duration of the laser must match the thermal relaxation time of its target. Example, small blood vessels will require a short pulse duration “this could be as short 0.45ms to effectively treat it” and a large vessel with require a longer pulse duration.

    If your Vbeam treatments are used with the appropriate settings for your blood vessels you should noticed blanching in the areas hit by the laser “AFTER ONE SESSION OR PATCH TEST!!!”
    Below …hopefully if I can get it working are pictures of blanching after my short pulse vbeam treatments 0.45ms – 1.5ms.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

  2. #2
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    Hi Carl, thanks for this! Very nice of you to help us out here by sharing your experience. Question: do you have flushing as well as permanent redness? If so, did the short pulsed duration method help/hurt/have no effect on your flushing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hg24 View Post
    Hi Carl, thanks for this! Very nice of you to help us out here by sharing your experience. Question: do you have flushing as well as permanent redness? If so, did the short pulsed duration method help/hurt/have no effect on your flushing?
    Hi Hg24,
    yes unfortunately I do flush as well as permanent redness, its really annoying. When I wake up in the morning I am perfectly pale then within a half hour of waking up the redness and flushing comes along.

    The short pulse duration method has removed the redness in the areas hit, unfortunately I do still flush in these areas, its just not as intense

    The Vbeam has a wavelength of 595nm but I have heard of others on this site that have used longer wavelength treatments eg. IPL with deep filters and ND.Yag for flushing. I personally have only ever used Pulsed Dye Lasers. Hope this helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by carllambert1993 View Post
    Hi Hg24,
    yes unfortunately I do flush as well as permanent redness, its really annoying. When I wake up in the morning I am perfectly pale then within a half hour of waking up the redness and flushing comes along.

    The short pulse duration method has removed the redness in the areas hit, unfortunately I do still flush in these areas, its just not as intense

    The Vbeam has a wavelength of 595nm but I have heard of others on this site that have used longer wavelength treatments eg. IPL with deep filters and ND.Yag for flushing. I personally have only ever used Pulsed Dye Lasers. Hope this helps
    Hi Carl, John from kilkenny here, could you recommend a good laser clinic in Ireland for me please, I suffer with type1 telangiectasia, I'd appreciate your advice, Regards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovelyhurling45 View Post
    Hi Carl, John from kilkenny here, could you recommend a good laser clinic in Ireland for me please, I suffer with type1 telangiectasia, I'd appreciate your advice, Regards.
    Hi john,
    I can only give a recommendation based on my experience. I have only ever used Pulsed Dye Lasers, I have no experience with IPL, KTP, NDyag or any other lasers.
    The first place I went to I cannot recommend, the guy im going to now is Dr. Michael Murphy in Drogheda.

    There is a laser unit in the Bons Secours hospital in Cork that uses a vbeam Pulsed Dye Laser I think you need a GP referral, but shouldn't be to hard to get.
    There is also a laser unit in St.James Hospital in Dublin which uses a Vbeam pulsed dye laser also, again a GP referral letter is needed.
    Dr David Buckley in Solas Dermatology has a N-lite Pulsed Dye Laser. He is based in Tralee.

    I have no experience with the above 3 places but if you follow my advice with just using patch tests to see how your skin responds before doing full treatments you should be ok,
    feel free to print or screen capture my images to show to the Doctor.

    From my experience I find that Doctors make excuses to not use short pulse durations example, "It will blister" " It will scar" ...... this is not true! these laser were used for years with a fixed 0.45ms pulse duration without damaging the skin.

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    Well done Carl

    Easily the best thread about vbeam this forum has ever seen .

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    Quote Originally Posted by davekelly View Post
    Well done Carl

    Easily the best thread about vbeam this forum has ever seen .
    Thanks Dave,

    It has always annoyed me looking at posts online of people using the new Long Pulsed Dye Lasers to treat rosacea redness. Some of them are red with background erythema with very small superficial blood vessels on the surface on there skin, these people require short pulse durations in order for the laser to be effective. The are wasting there time and money on these long pulsed dye lasers "I know from first hand experience" and the doctors and clinics are all too happy to go along because 1. they have an expensive laser to pay for 2. there making a fortune on the retreatment's due to the lack of results.

    For example when using a laser for tattoo removal the lasers pulse duration must be in the picosecond range, this extremely short pulse duration is needed to target the tiny ink particles.

    Same thing applies when treating blood vessels and hair follicles, the pulse needs to match the thermal relaxation time of its target.

    This is another reason IPL has a such a poor success rate, as far as I know the shortest pulse a IPL can produce is 3ms, anything that needs a shorter pulse is just going to be left behind as the IPL cannot produce the pulse duration required to remove the vessel.

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    Carl, do you believe you have to be bruised in order to get clearance with a short pulsed duration? Or can it be short pulse but a non-bruising treatment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hg24 View Post
    Carl, do you believe you have to be bruised in order to get clearance with a short pulsed duration? Or can it be short pulse but a non-bruising treatment?
    Yes!!!! you have to bruise! as the old saying goes "No pain no gain"
    I am very weary of any laser treatment that offers no downtime, I know from my own skin the areas with the worst bruising are the areas that respond the best.


    Dr Michael Murphy and I were only having this discussion at my last treatment, even he said that you have to bruise.

    Saying that I have seen published study's on long pulsed dye lasers that had an improvement without bruising, but usually these are large vessels that respond without bruising.

    I Personally think when treating small blood vessels with a pulsed dye laser you have to use peak power and short pulses which unfortunately does leave the area bruised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carllambert1993 View Post
    Hi john,
    I can only give a recommendation based on my experience. I have only ever used Pulsed Dye Lasers, I have no experience with IPL, KTP, NDyag or any other lasers.
    The first place I went to I cannot recommend, the guy im going to now is Dr. Michael Murphy in Drogheda.

    There is a laser unit in the Bons Secours hospital in Cork that uses a vbeam Pulsed Dye Laser I think you need a GP referral, but shouldn't be to hard to get.
    There is also a laser unit in St.James Hospital in Dublin which uses a Vbeam pulsed dye laser also, again a GP referral letter is needed.
    Dr David Buckley in Solas Dermatology has a N-lite Pulsed Dye Laser. He is based in Tralee.

    I have no experience with the above 3 places but if you follow my advice with just using patch tests to see how your skin responds before doing full treatments you should be ok,
    feel free to print or screen capture my images to show to the Doctor.

    From my experience I find that Doctors make excuses to not use short pulse durations example, "It will blister" " It will scar" ...... this is not true! these laser were used for years with a fixed 0.45ms pulse duration without damaging the skin.
    Hi Carl, I was with Dr Murphy last Wednesday in bryanstown, I know he suffered with rosacea himself, got laser treatment from him, Candella V beam laser, it was my first ever time to have laser treatment done, he charged me a consultation fee plus for the laser treatment as well, which lasted all of 5 minutes of treatment, I contacted a couple of other laser clinics in Dublin and cork and explained my session of laser treatment, both of them told me I was ripped off, treatment is suppose to be 40 minutes, is that correct, would not go back there again, as it was my first time, my face has spot bruising and will these bruises fade with time and how long does it take for them to dissappear, some feedback would be appreciated Carl, just to put my mind at rest, thanks, Regards john.

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