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Thread: What I'm trying...

  1. #1
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    Default What I'm trying...

    I've been trying a new regimen that, so far (and fingers crossed) has been giving me some reduction in baseline redness.

    I seem to have both type 1 and type 2. I treated the P&Ps successfully for years with spironolactone (hormonal med that reduces androgens) but my doc won't prescribe it anymore so I'm looking for OTC cures. Also would like something that reduces the redness and the flushing...internally. Multiple IPLs and Vbeams have been unsuccessful, and Mirvaso backfired.

    Here is what I've been on for the last few months.

    Thyroid
    I was diagnosed as hypothyroid. My TSH was high and my free T3 and free T4 were in range but on the very low end. Being hypothyroid makes you tired, sluggish, cold, fat, and achy in the bones.

    Right now I am on 45mg of Armor Thyroid. It has helped push my basal temperature up and I feel less sluggish in the morning (well, after I take my meds). Armor Thyroid is prescription only.

    Liver
    One doctor I went to insisted that all my symptoms pointed to a non-alcoholic liver problem. Liver issues can mean issues processing your own hormones. I didn't see the doctor again for various reasons, but I have started taking 450 - 800mg of Milk Thistle daily. I use Gaia Herbs Milk Thistle Seed Liquid Phyto-capsules.

    Progesterone
    Veins and capillaries are highly sensitive to estrogen, and women are more likely than men to have varicose veins, spider veins, leaky capillaries, and other vascular problems besides rosacea. Estrogen can promote angioneogenesis by a variety of mechanisms, including nitric oxide (Johnson, et al., 2006). "Estrogens potentiate corticosteroid effects on the skin such as striae, telangiectasiae, and rosacea dermatitis" (Zaun, 1981). Early forms of oral contraceptives, high in estrogen, were found to increase acne rosacea more than three-fold (Prenen & Ledoux-Corbusier, 1971).
    I am using bioidentical progesterone cream because it can regulate both testosterone (which can contribute to P&Ps) and bad estrogens (which can contribute to vascular problems).

    I have not been very systematic with how I use the progesterone cream. I use it when I wake up and before I go to bed but I don't really measure it out. You're supposed to use it only 2-3 weeks out of the month but I haven't been tracking my cycle so I just use it every day.

    I just get a little bit of cream between my fingers and spread it on my face and decolletage. Dr. John Lee recommended using it where you blush the most, and so that's what I've been doing. I use bioidentical Emerita Pro-gest Cream.

    Vitamin A
    Vitamin A is required for T3 production in the thyroid. I took 8,000 IU a day regularly but I think it was just not enough for my body. Currently taking 25,000 IU daily from NOW Foods Vitamin A from fish liver oil. I am also taking this because I have keratosis pilaris on my arms and legs, and this is the most popular OTC internal cure.

    Fish Oil
    The problem with fish oil is that you have to get the good stuff for it to work, and the good stuff is pricey. But I finally bit the bullet and am taking 2-4 capsules every day. Nordic Naturals Omega-3 Formula. This really helps with my chronic constipation for some reason, and for that reason alone I will keep taking it.

    Diet
    My diet is kind of a poor man's Paleo, meaning I eat Paleo except that I do add in moderate whole grains and dairy because I'm too poor to fulfill my caloric requirements with just organic meats, fruits, and veggies.


    RESULTS AS OF TODAY

    I have taken each of these ingredients separately before and have not experienced anything significantly positive. Fish oil by itself, for example, would make me flush terribly. But for some reason (again, fingers crossed) the combination seems to be doing the trick. It's been a couple months now.

    I was really pale all day today despite some emotionally stressful social situations and not so great food choices. My "clock flushing" (flushing around the same time every day in the late afternoon) has also stopped for the time being. No new P&Ps for 1.5 weeks. Skin is in a good place, not too dry, not too oily.
    Last edited by GreenGables; 20th April 2015 at 03:28 AM.

  2. #2
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    Since the original post I have only had one noticeable flush--while sitting in a very hot, stuffy room for 3 hours.

    My face stayed pale during and after 2.5 hours of strenuous cardio exercise despite some breathing problems I have due to a deviated septum.

    2 P&Ps did develop when I ran out of milk thistle for ~5 days.

    Also this quote was interesting about progesterone, estrogen, and veins:

    Estrogen does increase the blood flow to particular organs, but apparently less than it increases their oxygen demand, as can be seen from the color change of estrogenized tissues, toward purple, rather than pink. Measurements of oxygen tension in the tissue show that estrogen decreases the relative availability of oxygen. And when the level of estrogen is very high, metabolically demanding tissues, such as the kidney and adrenal cortex, simply die, especially under conditions that restrict blood flow. [E.g., Kocsis, et al., 1988, McCaig, et al., 1998, Yang, et al., 1999.] When estrogen's effects overlap with the stimulating effects of other hormones, such as pituitary hormones, particular organs undergo something similar to “excitotoxicity.” When estrogen overlaps with endotoxin (as it tends to do), multiple organ failure is the result.

    The simple need for more oxygen is a stimulus to increase the growth of blood vessels, and estrogen's stimulation of non-mitochondrial oxygen consumption with the production of lactic acid stimulates blood vessel formation. Progesterone, by increasing oxidative efficiency, opposes this “angiogenic” (neovascularization) effect of estrogen.

  3. #3
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    Hi GreenGables--- are you in menopause? Peri menopause? I'm taking
    Estrogen/progesterone combo and it has it's pros and cons. But severe
    Menopause symptoms have me in a tight corner. I'm interested
    In the studies you mentioned about estrogen being inflammatory. I try
    To keep this in check doing other things-- bonebroth helps a lot.

    Just a suggestion: pharmacist who compounded my progesterone
    Cream said best place to apply is inner thighs or inner arms and
    Not the face. I had read John Lee so I knew what he was saying;
    I didn't question it because I didn't want to put a cream on my face.

    Glad to hear this system is working for you. it is encouraging to
    Know fish oil is working for you. I've been reluctant to add it in.
    Thanks, birdie

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdie View Post
    Hi GreenGables--- are you in menopause? Peri menopause? I'm taking
    Estrogen/progesterone combo and it has it's pros and cons. But severe
    Menopause symptoms have me in a tight corner. I'm interested
    In the studies you mentioned about estrogen being inflammatory. I try
    To keep this in check doing other things-- bonebroth helps a lot.

    Just a suggestion: pharmacist who compounded my progesterone
    Cream said best place to apply is inner thighs or inner arms and
    Not the face. I had read John Lee so I knew what he was saying;
    I didn't question it because I didn't want to put a cream on my face.

    Glad to hear this system is working for you. it is encouraging to
    Know fish oil is working for you. I've been reluctant to add it in.
    Thanks, birdie
    I'm not close to menopause or perimenopause so I can't offer help in that regard. Based on my reading, it seems that estrogen can decline in menopause but that progesterone declines as well. So the ratio of estrogen/progesterone is significantly in favor of estrogen, even if overall estrogen is low (because the progesterone is low too, but we don't pay attention to it). In menopause estrogen also tends to be erratic, so it surges and dips causing hormonal reactions.

    Polvani and Nencioni,5 among others, found that in women, the onset of menopause (the first missed period, suddenly increased bone loss, nervous symptoms such as depression, insomnia, and flushing) corresponds to the failure to produce progesterone, while estrogen is produced at normal levels. This results in a great functional excess of estrogen, because it is no longer opposed by progesterone. Typically, it takes about four years for the monthly estrogen excess to disappear.
    There are at least three hormonal changes in perimenopause. The first and most important is higher estrogen levels.[7,11] The second major change is lower progesterone levels[7] and luteal phase lengths that are shorter with more common anovulation.[18] The final change involves disruption of the hypothalamic-pituitary-ovarian feedback system. There is less reliable suppression of FSH by higher estradiol levels and less likelihood that a luteinizing hormone (LH) mid-cycle peak will follow high estrogen levels. The practical results of these changes are higher estradiol and lower progesterone levels, but also exogenous estrogen that doesn’t reliably suppress endogenous estrogen levels.

    The idea that estrogen levels are dropping or low in perimenopause was so common in the past that from the 1950s to the 1990s many studies didn’t comment on the high estrogens they found in some perimenopausal women.[8] The same was true in seven studies comparing hormone levels early in the cycle and premenstrually in premenopausal versus perimenopausal women.[11] A meta-analysis of these comparative studies, which included 292 control premenopausal women and 415 perimenopausal women, showed that follicular phase estradiol levels were 175 ± 57 pmol/L compared with 225 ± 98 pmol/L in perimenopausal women. Perimenopausal estradiol levels were about 30% higher (F = 16.12, P = 0.041).[11] Higher estradiol and lower progesterone levels help explain many of women’s perimenopausal experiences.[11] For example, in a recent case-control study high estradiol levels and endometrial hyperplasia were associated with heavy flow.[17]

    Hot flushes and night sweats in menopausal women are understood to mean estrogen “deficiency.” However, women with Turner syndrome who have early menopause and have never been treated with estrogen don’t have hot flushes. Also, menopausal women being treated with estradiol implants every 6 months had severe hot flushes, irritability, and sleep disturbances at a time when their estradiol levels were higher than mid-cycle estrogen peak levels.[19] All of this evidence suggests that vasomotor symptoms arise because the hypothalamus has become used to higher estrogen levels—hot flushes develop just as readily when estrogen levels decrease from high to normal as from normal to low. Estrogen withdrawal from previously higher levels likely explains why night sweats and hot flushes occur in 37% of perimenopausal women.[20] Mood swings likely result because estradiol amplifies the stress hormone responses to life stresses.[21] Other symptoms such as waking after a few hours of deep sleep as yet have no hormonal explanation.

    See this link for more.
    So according to this study, for most women the estrogen is not really low persay, the body just gets used to excessively high levels and freaks out when the estrogen dips a little bit.

    I worry about progesterone being applied to 'fatty areas' such as the inner thighs because I read that if you have a circulatory problem (which as rosaceans, we probably do) that progesterone gets overly stored in fat instead of going where we need it. Progesterone can sit in your fat stores for years according to some research.

    When I first started progesterone cream I did apply it to the thighs and did not feel the positive effects...when I apply to a thin and venuous area like the inner wrists or the face, I feel the positive effects almost immediately.

    Did your test results show low estrogen? Any idea what your progesterone / estrogen proportion is?

    I should note that I still think the combination of the things I am trying has a net positive effect that I did not receive from any one thing on its own. I tried progesterone cream a while back and the results were not so positive. I was also on thyroid hormone without all this other stuff and the results were nill in terms of my rosacea. Something about the combination of thyroid + progesterone + vitamin A + fish oil + milk thistle is helping my body regulate itself.
    Last edited by GreenGables; 3rd May 2015 at 03:58 PM.

  5. #5
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    Well I appreciate you taking the time to post that. It
    May be very helpful for women who are perplexed
    About the estrogen/ --- hormone connection to
    Rosacea. Not that I can refute the science you
    Posted; it's just it's very individualized. The process
    Of menopause I mean. Interesting I get together
    With a group of ladies every week and we range
    In ages from 27-73. Just this last week we spent
    A lot of time laughing and talking about peri menopause
    And the M. Everyone's story out of 8 women is
    Different. I'm through menopause, read tons of
    Books etc... When I finally spent a year literally
    With foggy brain, no concentration, no memory,
    Hot flashes etc..... I could have kicked myself as
    I finally had my hormone levels tested and my
    Estrogen level was so low it didn't even register.
    Long story short, listen to your body and not so
    Much all the specific science as you get closer. Estrogen
    Dominance is a common problem as we age and
    Get closer to M. But not for all of us. It's true about
    Progesterone stored in fat. Although I think the oral
    Progesterone is not as likely to do this as the bioidentical
    Creams. Thanks for posting this.

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