Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: New study: Gut flora changes quicky in response to diet changes

  1. #1
    Senior Member Nadine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Northwestern USA
    Posts
    238
    Country: United States

    Default New study: Gut flora changes quicky in response to diet changes

    This study just came out suggesting that changes in gut flora can happen very quickly in response to diet changes.

    The study is looking at plant-based vs. meat & dairy diets, but seems like it could apply to other diet changes too. This isn't directly about rosacea, but I'm thinking it could maybe point in the direction of a better understanding of how some of the food triggers work.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...e-changes-diet

  2. #2
    Senior Member Starlite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,348
    Country: United States

    Default

    This is a very interesting study Nadine. Thanks so much for posting it. I remember seeing you had posted it and wanted to read it but got busy else where. I'm glad I hunted it down. It really does seem our bodies were designed to be able to eat either mostly fruit, and/or mostly nuts and greens, and/or animals based products. There's all this conflicting information on diet out there and for everyone there are testimonials of a return to health.

    It seems to me that it's clear that processed foods have brought an increase in disease. Some people (meaning diet experts, some medically trained, some not) say that it becomes a problem for the body to daily mix diet types. Assuming that the junk food is out of your diet... What seems to be best for people is to maybe just eat nuts and greens mostly for a week or what feels best, then go with a fruit diet for a time, then maybe fish, eggs etc..

    That seem like what a real Paleo Diet would be like.. because different foods were available at different times of the year. Maybe we can't handle to shift from meal to meal.

    The reason I am pondering this is... My clarity of the timing on this isn't great but about 4 years ago.. maybe five I began to get off all the medications they had me on, started to take out the worst things I ate like diet sodas, you know all the nasty chemicals. Went to just a whole foods diet for a while, nothing processed, then I started to eliminate wheat and dairy, then meat until I was only eating low Glycemic Index veggies and nuts. Probably about the third year I added in colloidal silver and garlic to try and get the chronic diarrhea to stop, thinking it was a gut fungal over growth. It stop the gut cramping and pain, but it didn't help with the lose stools. I also added in turmeric to help control inflammation. At one point, as much as I didn't want to, I did a two week run on Fluconazole with no help.

    A year ago this month! YEAH! I treated for mites with Nu-Stock, TTO, and Zinc Oxide and got my rosacea in remission. I had made a lot of improvements, I went from barely having the strength to take a shower, to walking miles every day and then even started physical therapy to improve my painful joint range of motion. I had however lost a lot of weight and the more demands I put on my body physically, and the less nutrition I was absorbing (it got to a point the food was just going through undigested) a monster starving appetite kicked in. As in the body screaming "Find Food" "FIND FOOD!" I am certain it is at this point I should have listened to it and added back in eggs and bone broth, like suggested for the bowel disease diet. I did not because I prefer to be a vegan and I was convinced I needed to keep the toxins to a minimum. I increased protein in as many ways as possible with out adding back in animal products.

    Anyway.. something like 6 to 8 months ago I went and found an awesome physician's assistant.. I LOVE this guy. Told him what I had read on here about SIBO and asked if he would be willing to do the recommended dose of Rifaximin 400 mg 3x a day for two weeks. He was willing and I started it. (Oh BTW I had been tested for everything and they could find nothing. I've got all the symptoms of Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, arthritic changes and painful inflammation in all my joints especially the hips and back, my asthma cleared up from the diet changes) Anyway.. within two days it was working, after years of serious bowel problems I was having normal "activity" However, two days after I stopped the Rifaximin it all came back 10'xs worse along with incredibly painful cramping. I had all the symptoms of "C. diff" but did not test positive for it. I was devastated. I mean I lost my will to live. I know malnutrition can profoundly effect your state of mind, but the hopelessness was also about the pain and loss of success.

    The new Doc put me on Metronidazole 500mg 3x's a day for two weeks and right about three days near the end of the prescription the pain left and things returned to "normal." However during this time due to the intense cravings and loss of motivation I added back in bread and yogurt.. then after a holiday event sugar. Before the meds ran out I went back in to tell him what was happening and he gave me a refill for another four weeks. As much as I do not want to be taking these meds I was greatly relived and gladly took it. So that was six weeks on that and normal bowl activity for the first time in years. I started gaining weight like crazy and feeling like such a loser, so guilty.. still no will to live. Thank goodness I found this video from this little girl about binge eating.. How I STOPPED Binge Eating and how it can be triggered from starvation like events. It's possible too that the dying bacteria population is causing the demand for the foods it needs to survive.

    About two weeks after that six week round, the diarrhea returned and so did the painful cramping. I did not wait, but went right in. He gave me another two week prescription and three more refills for two week treatments. I have used up two of those and have one left. Have been unable to get off the wheat, dairy, and sugar, and have lost my ability to walk very far. I am so weak brushing my hair is hard. I am in so much pain I have added back in Tylenol and Ibuprofen and that doesn't even help. I have no life motivation.

    I didn't mean to dump this story in this thread, but there it is. Maybe because I trust you Nadine. I had been so incredibly disciplined and I can see where I went wrong, as in not getting the right nutrition at the right time. I know it's all about the gut at this point. I've told my body I will listen closer this time.. I will add back in the high nutrition foods before I ask it to give anything up.. not being at war with it.. but only the critters harming it. While all this was going on, I've had a whole lot of life losses too. Long story..

    Two years ago this month I quit smoking. LOL Somehow that doesn't seem to mean much but I thought I throw that out there.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Nadine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Northwestern USA
    Posts
    238
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlite View Post
    This is a very interesting study Nadine. Thanks so much for posting it. I remember seeing you had posted it and wanted to read it but got busy else where. I'm glad I hunted it down. It really does seem our bodies were designed to be able to eat either mostly fruit, and/or mostly nuts and greens, and/or animals based products. There's all this conflicting information on diet out there and for everyone there are testimonials of a return to health.
    I hear you about the conflicting info. Right now I'm going down yet another research rabbit-hole on sugar and high GI foods, and at some point I really need to take a look at gluten and figure out what I think about it. I don't have any medical training so I rely on my general critical thinking skills to try to sort through a sea of contradictory info. I think you're on to something when you point out how many different diets there are that people report feeling better on. One of my pet theories is that any time we go on any kind of restrictive diet, we turn our attention to our food and cut out a bunch of junk - paleo and vegan are very different diets, but they both tend to get people to cut back on junk!

    It seems to me that it's clear that processed foods have brought an increase in disease.
    Yes. That much seems clear at least!

    Some people (meaning diet experts, some medically trained, some not) say that it becomes a problem for the body to daily mix diet types. Assuming that the junk food is out of your diet... What seems to be best for people is to maybe just eat nuts and greens mostly for a week or what feels best, then go with a fruit diet for a time, then maybe fish, eggs etc..

    That seem like what a real Paleo Diet would be like.. because different foods were available at different times of the year. Maybe we can't handle to shift from meal to meal.
    That's an interesting thought. I might be doing myself a disservice by eating super clean, mostly vegan whole foods at home, but eating whatever people put in front of me (slight exaggeration) when I'm out. I'll think about that.

    The reason I am pondering this is... My clarity of the timing on this isn't great but about 4 years ago.. maybe five I began to get off all the medications they had me on, started to take out the worst things I ate like diet sodas, you know all the nasty chemicals. Went to just a whole foods diet for a while, nothing processed, then I started to eliminate wheat and dairy, then meat until I was only eating low Glycemic Index veggies and nuts. Probably about the third year I added in colloidal silver and garlic to try and get the chronic diarrhea to stop, thinking it was a gut fungal over growth. It stop the gut cramping and pain, but it didn't help with the lose stools. I also added in turmeric to help control inflammation. At one point, as much as I didn't want to, I did a two week run on Fluconazole with no help.
    Ohh I'm not a fan of Fluconazole! I was on that briefly and got really spooked by the liver dangers it poses. Also, it seemed to make my hair fall out (one of its documented side effects). But it was hard to tell because hair falling out was one of my pre-existing symptoms, but it seemed to return after a couple weeks of Fluconazole (after slowing down while on candida diet).

    A year ago this month! YEAH! I treated for mites with Nu-Stock, TTO, and Zinc Oxide and got my rosacea in remission.
    Smart move. It seems even with diet and oral meds, sometimes we need that topical attack.

    I had made a lot of improvements, I went from barely having the strength to take a shower, to walking miles every day and then even started physical therapy to improve my painful joint range of motion. I had however lost a lot of weight and the more demands I put on my body physically, and the less nutrition I was absorbing (it got to a point the food was just going through undigested) a monster starving appetite kicked in. As in the body screaming "Find Food" "FIND FOOD!" I am certain it is at this point I should have listened to it and added back in eggs and bone broth, like suggested for the bowel disease diet. I did not because I prefer to be a vegan and I was convinced I needed to keep the toxins to a minimum. I increased protein in as many ways as possible with out adding back in animal products.
    Oh that must have been so hard! Like you, I prefer to eat vegan from a philosophical and moral perspective. I don't mean that I think eating meat is inherently wrong, but with our industrial food system I just don't feel good about participating in milk, egg, and meat production. I wouldn't mind eating fish, but with overfishing and other environmental problems and all that...basically, where I come out is, I'll keep a vegan kitchen; that's about my comfort level. Being omnivorous when I'm out helps me socially, and also lets me relax a little, knowing I don't have to stress about missing out on something like B12 or whatever.

    Anyway.. something like 6 to 8 months ago I went and found an awesome physician's assistant.. I LOVE this guy. Told him what I had read on here about SIBO and asked if he would be willing to do the recommended dose of Rifaximin 400 mg 3x a day for two weeks. He was willing and I started it.
    Interesting. With me it has always seemed to be a yeast issue; I've never thought about SIBO for me, although when I was at my worst I did have diarrhea. Interestingly, my diarrhea didn't start until I was under treatment by a Chinese herbalist. I kept saying this one formula had caused it, and he kept saying that didn't seem true. By that point I was so confused from trying different treatment approaches, and so frustrated, and busy with other life demands, that I stopped any kind of treatment for a while and even started eating junk again - because nothing seemed to help. Later I looked back and realized no, staying away from junk was the one thing I knew did help!

    It's good that you found a practitioner who can work with you. I have a doc who has been pretty flexible and accommodating with me, but she really doesn't know what's going on with me, so I still feel sort of like I'm on my own.

    (Oh BTW I had been tested for everything and they could find nothing. I've got all the symptoms of Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, arthritic changes and painful inflammation in all my joints especially the hips and back, my asthma cleared up from the diet changes) Anyway.. within two days it was working, after years of serious bowel problems I was having normal "activity" However, two days after I stopped the Rifaximin it all came back 10'xs worse along with incredibly painful cramping. I had all the symptoms of "C. diff" but did not test positive for it. I was devastated. I mean I lost my will to live. I know malnutrition can profoundly effect your state of mind, but the hopelessness was also about the pain and loss of success.
    Oh, I have SO been there. This summer, when I was at my second low point, I got so discouraged, not only about my health but about everything else that's been going wrong in my life, that I just couldn't keep it together. I've been navigating a professional transition and this stuff with my health, combined with financial and personal stress, has just been more than I can take sometimes.

    Now that I have more of a handle on things I'm mostly focused on my face and my hair, but reading your post is reminding me how many weird, seemingly unrelated symptoms I've had at my low points - stiffness, joint pain, headaches. Losing my hair really freaked me out (and yes I was tested for thyroid function). But the diarrhea phase was probably my least favorite!

    The new Doc put me on Metronidazole 500mg 3x's a day for two weeks and right about three days near the end of the prescription the pain left and things returned to "normal." However during this time due to the intense cravings and loss of motivation I added back in bread and yogurt.. then after a holiday event sugar.
    Oh yeah. When things get really bad, it's easy to fall to temptation. Especially when eating clean doesn't even seem to be helping.

    Before the meds ran out I went back in to tell him what was happening and he gave me a refill for another four weeks. As much as I do not want to be taking these meds I was greatly relived and gladly took it. So that was six weeks on that and normal bowl activity for the first time in years. I started gaining weight like crazy and feeling like such a loser, so guilty.. still no will to live. Thank goodness I found this video from this little girl about binge eating.. How I STOPPED Binge Eating and how it can be triggered from starvation like events. It's possible too that the dying bacteria population is causing the demand for the foods it needs to survive.
    Wow, good video. I've never heard that idea, that binge eating can be followed by purging not in the bulimic sense but by returning to very restrictive eating habits. Something to think about. I can definitely relate to the experience of being overtaken by the waves of an urge to eat something, especially when I'm feeling down and depressed. No donut in sight is safe!

    About two weeks after that six week round, the diarrhea returned and so did the painful cramping. I did not wait, but went right in. He gave me another two week prescription and three more refills for two week treatments. I have used up two of those and have one left. Have been unable to get off the wheat, dairy, and sugar, and have lost my ability to walk very far. I am so weak brushing my hair is hard. I am in so much pain I have added back in Tylenol and Ibuprofen and that doesn't even help. I have no life motivation.
    Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. And you've been giving so much support to others in the forum, I had no idea you were suffering so much right now.

    So, right now you're on the Metronidazole, which seemed to stop the bowel problems and cramping and pain - but now they've returned? Reading what you wrote, it sounds like you're saying because you've started eating wheat, dairy, and sugar again, the problems have come back in spite of the Metronidazole? Does your PA agree that the wheat, dairy, and sugar are causing it? And what does he say about why the Metro doesn't seem to be clearing things this time?

    I'm also thinking, maybe you don't need to get completely off the wheat, dairy, and sugar. Maybe just try to minimize it. I'm just thinking about what the girl in the video said about dieting, and how it can set us up for a binge, because it's so restrictive.


    I didn't mean to dump this story in this thread, but there it is. Maybe because I trust you Nadine. I had been so incredibly disciplined and I can see where I went wrong, as in not getting the right nutrition at the right time. I know it's all about the gut at this point. I've told my body I will listen closer this time.. I will add back in the high nutrition foods before I ask it to give anything up.. not being at war with it.. but only the critters harming it. While all this was going on, I've had a whole lot of life losses too. Long story..
    Oh, don't worry about it. I'm glad you shared what you've been going through. And I'm sorry to hear about the life losses. My own experience has been, these things seem to come together - health stuff and life stuff I mean. The one gift I've found in my ordeal is that I will never, ever take good health for granted again. I have a good friend who has been going through a serious health crisis for the last 5 years, and I now see how I haven't been as compassionate toward her as I could have been. I get it now. So my difficulties have made me a better friend, and I'm grateful for that.

    I'm sure you have your eye on this, but I have to ask - with all these antibiotics you've been taking, are you also taking probiotics, just to try to replenish the good guys between antibiotic doses? I hope so.

    Two years ago this month I quit smoking. LOL Somehow that doesn't seem to mean much but I thought I throw that out there.
    Hey, that's something to celebrate! That is not an easy habit to break. Maybe you can access that same strength, determination and self-care that helped you quit smoking, and bring it to your current situation. I really hope you and your PA can get this gut thing sorted out. I get nervous thinking about you being on that Metronidazole for too long - but it also seems to be the only thing that has helped you.

    And how is your skin in all of this? Do you still do the Nu-stock, TTO, etc?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Starlite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,348
    Country: United States

    Default

    Bless your heart for your kindness and being there to just *hear* what I have not been able to say. I'll reply tomorrow. It's surprising how much emotion poured out just reading your reply. It's too blurry to type right now.. but thank you so much.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Starlite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,348
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    I hear you about the conflicting info. Right now I'm going down yet another research rabbit-hole on sugar and high GI foods, and at some point I really need to take a look at gluten and figure out what I think about it. I don't have any medical training so I rely on my general critical thinking skills to try to sort through a sea of contradictory info. I think you're on to something when you point out how many different diets there are that people report feeling better on. One of my pet theories is that any time we go on any kind of restrictive diet, we turn our attention to our food and cut out a bunch of junk - paleo and vegan are very different diets, but they both tend to get people to cut back on junk!
    This Gly Index stuff matters a lot. It's a very important rabbit hole. Let me share the best info I have on wheat and why it so awful for us. Even knowing this I just has some white bread toast. Apparently it's addicting in an opiate sedating way. There are two videos here. It helps to watch them then read the study. Studies are tricky to trudge through at first. Anthony Samsel on the Effects of Glyphosate Part 1 and Anthony Samsel on the Effects of Glyphosate Part 2 Then the full study here ~> Glyphosate’s Suppression of Cytochrome P450 Enzymes and Amino Acid Biosynthesis by the Gut Microbiome: Pathways to Modern Diseases† Take your time, it's intense.


    Ohh I'm not a fan of Fluconazole! I was on that briefly and got really spooked by the liver dangers it poses. Also, it seemed to make my hair fall out (one of its documented side effects). But it was hard to tell because hair falling out was one of my pre-existing symptoms, but it seemed to return after a couple weeks of Fluconazole (after slowing down while on candida diet).
    I am not a fan of it either. It's hard on the liver, the kidneys, and it has fluoride in it and I am very fluoride sensitive. I have Dental fluorosis and the bone/joint issues may also be Skeletal fluorosis and any exposure to it increases my joint symptoms badly, but if the gut symptoms were from yeast fungus and diet was not managing it, I had to try the Fluconazole to see if it would stop the diarrhea. I was not aware hair loss was a side effect. So sorry that has been such a problem for you. My daughter too. It's very hard.



    Smart move. It seems even with diet and oral meds, sometimes we need that topical attack.
    I am fairly certain both are required until the major symptoms are under control.


    Oh that must have been so hard! Like you, I prefer to eat vegan from a philosophical and moral perspective. I don't mean that I think eating meat is inherently wrong, but with our industrial food system I just don't feel good about participating in milk, egg, and meat production. I wouldn't mind eating fish, but with overfishing and other environmental problems and all that...basically, where I come out is, I'll keep a vegan kitchen; that's about my comfort level. Being omnivorous when I'm out helps me socially, and also lets me relax a little, knowing I don't have to stress about missing out on something like B12 or whatever.
    Exactly!! It's the industrial food system that is so wrong. Most of them are fed on GMO's and given lots of antibiotics due to over crowded living situations, growth hormones, inhumane slaughter etc.. Completely unacceptable. I really wish I had at this time added back in eggs. I know I can get free range, organic fed chicken eggs and am now eating them.


    Interesting. With me it has always seemed to be a yeast issue; I've never thought about SIBO for me, although when I was at my worst I did have diarrhea. Interestingly, my diarrhea didn't start until I was under treatment by a Chinese herbalist. I kept saying this one formula had caused it, and he kept saying that didn't seem true. By that point I was so confused from trying different treatment approaches, and so frustrated, and busy with other life demands, that I stopped any kind of treatment for a while and even started eating junk again - because nothing seemed to help. Later I looked back and realized no, staying away from junk was the one thing I knew did help!

    It's good that you found a practitioner who can work with you. I have a doc who has been pretty flexible and accommodating with me, but she really doesn't know what's going on with me, so I still feel sort of like I'm on my own.
    Oh No! What was it he was giving you that caused the diarrhea? I know... it's so complicated. I had no clue about SIBO until reading about it here on the forum. It seems most with rosacea have gut problems, just at different stages. Looking back I know I had it for years it just progressed to a stage that made it undeniable. We really are on our own. The Doc is willing to help because I can speak to him in the medical language and have brought him several studies to look at. But even that, so many Docs are very "class" based in their thinking, although they would never name it that, they believe they are from a higher class.

    Oh, I have SO been there. This summer, when I was at my second low point, I got so discouraged, not only about my health but about everything else that's been going wrong in my life, that I just couldn't keep it together. I've been navigating a professional transition and this stuff with my health, combined with financial and personal stress, has just been more than I can take sometimes.

    Now that I have more of a handle on things I'm mostly focused on my face and my hair, but reading your post is reminding me how many weird, seemingly unrelated symptoms I've had at my low points - stiffness, joint pain, headaches. Losing my hair really freaked me out (and yes I was tested for thyroid function). But the diarrhea phase was probably my least favorite!
    Oh man... Maybe that's why I figured I could share this with you, because you know... you have been there. It does help you feel for others when you have been through so much. I'm glad to hear you are getting your feet under you a bit better.

    Just as aside, my thyroid tests "normal" too but I take kelp and potassium iodide anyway because I know my sensitivity to fluoride means I have been over exposed, and fluoride injures the thyroid. If I stop taking it I can sure tell because the first thing that happens is I can not get warm. Just awful bone cold. I also know hair loss is a symptom of a thyroid problem. You might try taking some supplements of kelp (for the iodine and high mineral content) and iodide. See if it helps?

    Anyway.. yes, they go hand in hand, life stress and health issues. OR at least they seem to. Not sure which one causes the other because they both have an impact on the other. It can get very overwhelming and just a tiny bit of positive movement in a better direction can make all the difference in the world.


    Oh yeah. When things get really bad, it's easy to fall to temptation. Especially when eating clean doesn't even seem to be helping.

    Wow, good video. I've never heard that idea, that binge eating can be followed by purging not in the bulimic sense but by returning to very restrictive eating habits. Something to think about. I can definitely relate to the experience of being overtaken by the waves of an urge to eat something, especially when I'm feeling down and depressed. No donut in sight is safe!
    Exactly! But, it's only when you quit eating clean that you get to see what it did help. What it helped the most was my joints and mood. It may not have been healing the gut, but now the gut is calmer (not fully healed) my joints are a mess and so is my mood/out look.

    "No doughnut in sight is safe." What I got from her wonderful video (bless her little heart again for making it) was that by her restricting her diet so strongly is what triggered her first "binge" which then causes her to try and over correct with a stricter diet and a vicious cycle sets in. To me that makes perfect sense. That part of the brain has no information about what your ideals and plans are, for all it knows we have a famine under way and it kicks into "FIND FOOD" mode in hyper gear AND it seems to also kick into "STORE FAT" mode. You know, because there could be a famine again next month. Our ancestors didn't get us this far along with out some serious survival abilities. I'm pretty sure mine kicked in due to serious malnutrition. I may have been eating mostly the right stuff but the body was not absorbing it and I also needed more protein to help heal.


    Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. And you've been giving so much support to others in the forum, I had no idea you were suffering so much right now.

    So, right now you're on the Metronidazole, which seemed to stop the bowel problems and cramping and pain - but now they've returned? Reading what you wrote, it sounds like you're saying because you've started eating wheat, dairy, and sugar again, the problems have come back in spite of the Metronidazole? Does your PA agree that the wheat, dairy, and sugar are causing it? And what does he say about why the Metro doesn't seem to be clearing things this time?

    I'm also thinking, maybe you don't need to get completely off the wheat, dairy, and sugar. Maybe just try to minimize it. I'm just thinking about what the girl in the video said about dieting, and how it can set us up for a binge, because it's so restrictive.

    I'm sure you have your eye on this, but I have to ask - with all these antibiotics you've been taking, are you also taking probiotics, just to try to replenish the good guys between antibiotic doses? I hope so.
    No, right now I am not on the Metronidazole, but I have another two week refill if I need it. I am taking garlic, colloidal silver, and oregano oil to keep the SIBO managed. If I run out of any one of those things, things start to get unstable again. I mean with in a day the pain and cramping starts then things get worse from there. I know if I could stop feeding it now (the bacteria), I would be more able to absorb the good like nutrition smoothies and things I was eating.

    And yes, I have been taking TONS of probiotics even during the years of diarrhea. I really do not want to be taking any medication because I know they have added to my health problems. They come with a price.

    Wow.. I just re-read what you said about maybe not completely getting off the wheat and sugar and my brain did not even catch that. I am thinking to much black and white, all or nothing. Instead of thing about what to take away, I need to focus on what to add. Like.. did I get my 9 servings of veggies and fruit.. did I get enough protein, enough water? Ok.. ok.. this is helping. Thank you.

    Oh, don't worry about it. I'm glad you shared what you've been going through. And I'm sorry to hear about the life losses. My own experience has been, these things seem to come together - health stuff and life stuff I mean. The one gift I've found in my ordeal is that I will never, ever take good health for granted again. I have a good friend who has been going through a serious health crisis for the last 5 years, and I now see how I haven't been as compassionate toward her as I could have been. I get it now. So my difficulties have made me a better friend, and I'm grateful for that.

    Hey, that's something to celebrate! That is not an easy habit to break. Maybe you can access that same strength, determination and self-care that helped you quit smoking, and bring it to your current situation. I really hope you and your PA can get this gut thing sorted out. I get nervous thinking about you being on that Metronidazole for too long - but it also seems to be the only thing that has helped you.

    And how is your skin in all of this? Do you still do the Nu-stock, TTO, etc?
    I seem to make my most challenging changes right bout this time of year, not New Years. I am sure it has something to do with the equinox and the sun begins returning back to us. That's good energy to ride on.

    My skin is fine. I do treat it with CCO and Nu-Stock mix at about a 25% ratio about three times a week. If a bump shows up I'll hit it with the Nu_Stock, TTO, and Zinc oxide mix. That shuts it down right away. I have had a return of mild flushing from time to time, no doubt due to the wheat and sugar, but it's not bad. And I love my Vedic Face Mask as a wash.

    I want to thank you again for your kindness, your compassion, and for just listening. I just haven't talked to anyone about this who would understand. It means the world to me.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Nadine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Northwestern USA
    Posts
    238
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlite View Post
    This Gly Index stuff matters a lot. It's a very important rabbit hole. Let me share the best info I have on wheat and why it so awful for us. Even knowing this I just has some white bread toast. Apparently it's addicting in an opiate sedating way. There are two videos here. It helps to watch them then read the study. Studies are tricky to trudge through at first. Take your time, it's intense.
    Ok, I'll hang on to those links and follow up when I have a good chunk of time to dive in. I think I've been sensing what a deep rabbit hole it is, and that's why I've been putting it off.

    I am not a fan of it either. It's hard on the liver, the kidneys, and it has fluoride in it and I am very fluoride sensitive. I have Dental fluorosis and the bone/joint issues may also be Skeletal fluorosis and any exposure to it increases my joint symptoms badly, but if the gut symptoms were from yeast fungus and diet was not managing it, I had to try the Fluconazole to see if it would stop the diarrhea. I was not aware hair loss was a side effect. So sorry that has been such a problem for you. My daughter too. It's very hard.
    Yeah, it's amazing how many areas of my life don't work when my hair is falling out in handfuls! Mine started when I was doing some extended travel and volunteer work in malaria zones...and I was taking doxycycline *every day* as a malaria prophylaxis. I shudder to think of it now, but at the time it seemed like my best bet, since I was already familiar with my body's response to it (from the years of taking it for rosacea). But I underestimated how much it could mess me up being on it continuously over several months.

    At first I thought my hair was falling out because I was malnourished, and in a way I was right - but not in the way I thought. Thing is, for a while there I was eating a very poor diet consisting mostly of white rice, due to a combination of (a) that's mostly what people ate where I was, and (b) I developed a severe aversion to several of the other food staples after getting very sick early in my stay. Oh, and I was also drinking a fair amount of beer and sugar sodas, and eating white bread....again, because that's just what was on offer, and when I'm traveling, I like to try to eat what everyone else is eating and not cause trouble.

    So imagine...taking doxycyline every day, with a diet of white rice, alcohol, and sugar. A perfect storm if there ever was one! I'm sure I was in full on yeast overgrowth, but for some reason the only symptom was the hair loss for a good long while. (Skin was clear because of taking doxy every day, and I never got any of the other usual yeast symptoms until much later, after I was home.)

    I am fairly certain both are required until the major symptoms are under control.

    Exactly!! It's the industrial food system that is so wrong. Most of them are fed on GMO's and given lots of antibiotics due to over crowded living situations, growth hormones, inhumane slaughter etc.. Completely unacceptable. I really wish I had at this time added back in eggs. I know I can get free range, organic fed chicken eggs and am now eating them.
    Yes, eggs are one of the animal products that it's relatively easy to get from a good source. I have a good friend who is a passionate, outspoken vegan...except for what she calls "happy chicken eggs," meaning she's getting them from a friend and has personal knowledge that the chickens are being kept in a humane, responsible way.

    Oh No! What was it he was giving you that caused the diarrhea? I know... it's so complicated. I had no clue about SIBO until reading about it here on the forum.
    I have no idea whether it was a particular herb he was using, but it started right after he changed the formula he had me on. Of course, it could have just been a coincidence of timing, a new stage in my worsening systemic problem, which his herbal program seemed for a while to be helping, but ultimately I ended up worse off than when I started. Although he did cure me of my chronically cold feet, but I wouldn't have traded my cold feet for diarrhea if I'd had a choice!

    Interestingly, my gut symptoms seem to have resolved on their own since I got off the herbs, but that could also be because I've been eating better, getting better exercise, and taking milk thistle and probiotics, among other things.

    It seems most with rosacea have gut problems, just at different stages. Looking back I know I had it for years it just progressed to a stage that made it undeniable. We really are on our own. The Doc is willing to help because I can speak to him in the medical language and have brought him several studies to look at. But even that, so many Docs are very "class" based in their thinking, although they would never name it that, they believe they are from a higher class.
    Yeah, I notice that too. I'm pretty good at spotting that mindset a mile away, which is part of why I have my current doc. She doesn't put on any airs, and she trusts my intuition and respects my preferences. It feels more like a partnership than an authoritative doc laying down the law.

    Oh man... Maybe that's why I figured I could share this with you, because you know... you have been there. It does help you feel for others when you have been through so much. I'm glad to hear you are getting your feet under you a bit better.

    Just as aside, my thyroid tests "normal" too but I take kelp and potassium iodide anyway because I know my sensitivity to fluoride means I have been over exposed, and fluoride injures the thyroid. If I stop taking it I can sure tell because the first thing that happens is I can not get warm. Just awful bone cold. I also know hair loss is a symptom of a thyroid problem. You might try taking some supplements of kelp (for the iodine and high mineral content) and iodide. See if it helps?
    That's a good idea, let me think about that. Yes, I have heard that thyroid testing normal doesn't necessarily mean all is good in that department. My hair isn't falling out quite as much since I started with the TTO/Coconut scalp applications, plus the MSM and Zinc I've been taking. I've even been noticing new baby hair growing in and overall it's feeling thicker. So that's encouraging.

    Anyway.. yes, they go hand in hand, life stress and health issues. OR at least they seem to. Not sure which one causes the other because they both have an impact on the other. It can get very overwhelming and just a tiny bit of positive movement in a better direction can make all the difference in the world.
    Yep. When I feel and look sick, I can't build my business. But if I don't build my business, I can't make money. And if I don't have money, I feel stressed and scared. And if I feel stressed and scared, I get sicker. At the same time, when I'm sick and depressed, I feel alone and helpless and irritable...and I get resentful of my loved ones for not understanding or not being there in the way I want...and without meaning to, I push them away even more, and I feel more depressed and helpless and sick. It's a vicious cycle.

    Fortunately, if we can get even a little bit of positive movement, there's also a "virtuous circle" that happens. I guess it was about 2 months ago that I really felt at my darkest, and somehow a deep part of me recognized that I had to make a choice - between turning that corner and really going all the way down into the dark, or summoning what was left of my will to survive and doing just ONE THING to take care of myself, then another, and another. The first step I took was to admit to myself that I was not about to go running. Ok, so I'm not going running - but that doesn't mean I should sit on the couch like a lump. So I started taking daily walks, which got longer and more vigorous. I'm learning that it's about baby steps, and acceptance of where I am in this moment. Once I started with the walks, I started feeling more inspired to cook myself healthy food, and so on.

    Exactly! But, it's only when you quit eating clean that you get to see what it did help. What it helped the most was my joints and mood. It may not have been healing the gut, but now the gut is calmer (not fully healed) my joints are a mess and so is my mood/out look.

    "No doughnut in sight is safe." What I got from her wonderful video (bless her little heart again for making it) was that by her restricting her diet so strongly is what triggered her first "binge" which then causes her to try and over correct with a stricter diet and a vicious cycle sets in. To me that makes perfect sense. That part of the brain has no information about what your ideals and plans are, for all it knows we have a famine under way and it kicks into "FIND FOOD" mode in hyper gear AND it seems to also kick into "STORE FAT" mode. You know, because there could be a famine again next month. Our ancestors didn't get us this far along with out some serious survival abilities. I'm pretty sure mine kicked in due to serious malnutrition. I may have been eating mostly the right stuff but the body was not absorbing it and I also needed more protein to help heal.
    Yeah, the other great thing in the video is the way she talks about just sitting with the urge to binge, not repressing it, but not acting on it either. I'm not sure if she realizes it, but what she's describing is a basic Buddhist mindfulness practice.

    No, right now I am not on the Metronidazole, but I have another two week refill if I need it. I am taking garlic, colloidal silver, and oregano oil to keep the SIBO managed. If I run out of any one of those things, things start to get unstable again. I mean with in a day the pain and cramping starts then things get worse from there. I know if I could stop feeding it now (the bacteria), I would be more able to absorb the good like nutrition smoothies and things I was eating.

    And yes, I have been taking TONS of probiotics even during the years of diarrhea. I really do not want to be taking any medication because I know they have added to my health problems. They come with a price.

    Wow.. I just re-read what you said about maybe not completely getting off the wheat and sugar and my brain did not even catch that. I am thinking to much black and white, all or nothing. Instead of thing about what to take away, I need to focus on what to add. Like.. did I get my 9 servings of veggies and fruit.. did I get enough protein, enough water? Ok.. ok.. this is helping. Thank you.
    Yeah, that's key. Staying positive. Like in the mindfulness exercise - start by just observing. No shame or blame or denial. It really works, believe me. Notice the temptation to eat white bread, or a cookie, or whatever. Notice the times when you don't give in to temptation, but with an equally peaceful mind, notice when you do give in and eat it. Notice everything about how that feels, the physical sensations and flavors as well as what goes through your mind while you're eating it and afterwards. Just accept it: Today I ate white bread toast, even though I know it isn't good for me, because my self control is not perfect, and that's just where I'm at right now.

    I seem to make my most challenging changes right bout this time of year, not New Years. I am sure it has something to do with the equinox and the sun begins returning back to us. That's good energy to ride on.

    My skin is fine. I do treat it with CCO and Nu-Stock mix at about a 25% ratio about three times a week. If a bump shows up I'll hit it with the Nu_Stock, TTO, and Zinc oxide mix. That shuts it down right away. I have had a return of mild flushing from time to time, no doubt due to the wheat and sugar, but it's not bad. And I love my Vedic Face Mask as a wash.

    I want to thank you again for your kindness, your compassion, and for just listening. I just haven't talked to anyone about this who would understand. It means the world to me.
    Of course, of course! Amazing what a difference it makes when we don't have to fight this fight alone! I think things will get better for you. You're doing all the right things. Just remember to give yourself a little love along the way, ok?

Similar Threads

  1. Constipation, Gut Flora and PEG
    By Mistica in forum Diet, lifestyle and relationships
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 6th July 2014, 01:22 AM
  2. Antibiotics, gut flora and Acetaldehyde
    By Mistica in forum News, research articles and current affairs
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 30th July 2013, 03:58 AM
  3. Interesting article about gut flora
    By RedFaceKid in forum News, research articles and current affairs
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11th May 2013, 05:08 PM
  4. You and Your Gut Flora
    By mrsmoof in forum News, research articles and current affairs
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11th January 2012, 09:23 PM
  5. Does accutane kill gut flora?
    By flying_er in forum Prescription medications
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 9th May 2010, 05:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •