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Thread: Seborrheic Dermatitis & Folliculitis -- Review of OTC Treatments for Malassezia

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistica View Post
    I posted about the benefits of lactoferrin a while back.

    Here is an enzymic solution which contains the following ingredients:

    Lactoferrin
    Lactoperoxidase
    Lysozyme

    It is actually a product for dogs for treatment of yeast/fungal ear infections.
    I use it on my dog. He is healthy, but from time to time, he gets a mild ear infection. I wanted to avoid the steroids that most vets prescribe.

    Zymox comes with or without hydrocortisone. I use the one without.
    It works very well. I have only needed to use it a couple of times, where as with the traditional steroid treatment, the symptoms kept returning, although it was never a major infection.

    Given the fact Tom and others here are very interested in biofilm busters, I thought I would throw this option into the mix.
    http://www.vetinfo.com/zymox-otic-for-dogs.html
    Thank you for that information, Mistica.

    I wish I'd had some Zymox to hand when I had my poodle all those years ago. She certainly had itchy ears, poor thing. My mother and I lived alone and we were very naive about the care and hygiene of dogs.

    I notice this about Zymox:

    "Lactoferrin is a protein that plays a key role in the immune system. It's a natural fungicide and bactericide. It's commonly found in the colostrum that comes before the breast milk and is the reason infants gain some of their mother's immunities. It works by preventing bacteria and fungi from being able to multiply."

    I found this statement very illuminating. I do sometimes wonder if my lack of immunity against fungal diseases is, in part, due to not having been breast fed as a baby!

  2. #22
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    Crap! I just realised i have been using Hegor 50, not Hegor 150.

    Tom, I presume Hegor 50 is only .5% climbazole; in making your lotion do you think it would be okay to triple the quantity to 30mls?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Tom Busby's Avatar
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    Hi Davo, yes, it will be fine to make a 30 ml batch as far as the Climbazole is concerned. It may be a little more watery than a lotion should be, is all I can guess, but if the lotion becomes too watery, adding up to 2% Aquaphor or 2% Vaseline will thicken it. Heat the Aquaphor to 120 F and cut it 50/50 with lotion before pouring it into the main batch of lotion so it will go into solution.

    Maybe you could make a 10 ml Hegor 50 batch for use on day one, to see if the idea has merit, and then add 20 ml more of Hegor 50 on day two if the initial batch is aesthetically ok.

    Or you could make a small batch in shot glass that is proportionate to 30 ml of Hegor 50 in 170 ml of lotion to see if it's going to be useable.

  4. #24
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    Thanks Tom, I made a 30ml batch and the consistency is fine, not too watery. I've been using it for a few days now, much easier than the ACV bodywash and doesnt sting Not much to report yet, will post results in a week or two...

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    I'm not posting much due to hard drive crash on my lap top as I lost all my favorite links on this subject. I just wanted to add that after a few weeks of treating the biofilms with X & F (see yeast threads for more info) I am finding that simple topicals that did not work before are really working now. Examples like pine tar soap, sulfur soap and the Neutrogena deep clean cream wash products. Months ago I had a prescription sulfur soap wash an also used the same bar of sulfur soap I'm using now. I gave it up because it showed no results after several attempts. Now it's making the fungus die or peel away any time I use these same products. I'm also taking 2 antifunals prescriptions now from my doctor so it also may have something to do with the difference but it's mostly internal for gut/blood yeast/fungus (mycosis). As far as my skin changes I really think weakening and removing biofilms is making the topicals work now.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Tom Busby's Avatar
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    Attached is the final update of my Review of OTC Treatments. The core-information remains the same but thereís quite a bit of new information that I learned on this forum, which has been very helpful to me. Thanks everyone!

    I want to emphasize that treatment, simply to get back to a baseline of nearly normal skin, involved more than a year in my case. Extraordinary patience is necessary. For example, my Review started out as a few paragraphs in September of last year, when I first realized that there was a long road ahead. Iíve learned a lot since then. The good news is that effective treatments are inexpensive and do not require a prescription.

  7. #27
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    Tom, your sharing of the yeast/fungal knowledge is much appreciated but I still think seborrheic dermatitis (sometimes called seborrheic eczema) is a kind of immune reactional and allergic disease which should be different from simple yeast over growth from the body. I always have a few questions in my mind to which answers have not yet been found from the internet resources.

    1) Is seborrheic dermatitis caused by overgrowth of fungus/yeast or just body's intorlerance of the yeasts?

    2) What are the symptoms of allergic to fungus and what are the symptoms belong to just over growth of yeast?

    3) If the symptoms relate to allergic to fungus/yeasts which means anti fungal agents can not provide a cure since even normal amount of yeasts can cause the problem in this case.

    4) Does oil skin cause fungus or fungus cause oil skin? Since I see many people with oil skin do not have such a disease while some dry skin type poeple which have some fungal infection suddenly have crazy oily skin while the oil skin will be gone once the fungal infection is treated? Is that kind of skin oil relate to biofilm? From the blog I posted earlier, the author observed a few life stages of malassezia, the very early stage is the liquid stage which mimics skin oil/moisture but in fact the very early stage of malazessia or malazessia fed fully by skin oil. While whiteheads/blackheads (some people even think they are normal skin fillers and some derms even think it's normal for people have oily skin but in this case oily skin and whiteheads maybe caused by malassezia) were observed as later stage of malassezia.

    5) Can topicals really penetrate deep enough to kill or control the malasezzia in the root position? I guess that's why people find some topicals improve the symptoms but can not provide a complete cure. Becuase the root has not been treated and yeasts can multiply from the root again and then the symptoms appear again. Malassezia can multiply at a very fast rate especially in some faourvable environment.

    6) Oral antifungal agents should not be used to treat the symptoms if they are caused by allergic to fungal. What about if the symptoms are caused by over growth of fungal? Some people find oral fungal treatments are uselsess can this because their are symptoms relate to allergy to fungal (that is can not torlerate even little amount of them), or the dosage is not big or long enough? I understand the side effects of the oral drugs and also the chronic nature of fungals but I used itraconazole to treat my fungal nails 7 years ago and they were cured and did not return anymore (because teh root was treated?). No topicals worked before I took the oral treatment because topicals can not penetrate into the nails or even the root cause was my blood?

    7) Malassezia do not just feed on lipid but also keratins. Facial lines will appear (caused by dehydration of skin) as well as dilate pores because they live deep in pores, dehydrated skin can also be caused by inflammed cells? Many people have large pores and dehydrate and oily skin at the same time, this is because of the overgrowth of malassezia? But they never have red or other flaring up symptoms like seborrheic dermatitis.

    8) Are oily dandruffs are really seborrheic dermatitis? Many medical scientists start thinking it is not since there's no inflamaton process involved, they are simply just over growth of malassezia. Some scientists even find some dandruffs are malassezia in the solid form before hyphae is observed.

    These questions are posted for people from this forum to consider and discuss.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Tom Busby's Avatar
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    Hi imbers, your questions are all the things I have asked myself, and what everyone else is wondering too.

    This is the dilemma -- skin oil is normal and healthy. All mammals have it. Somewhere there is a niche whereby malassezia exploits the host's oils and avoids the immune system. It must be a biofilm with keratin and other skin components so that the immune system doesn't recognize the fungus. The Holy Grail would be an oil that makes malassezia obvious to the immune system, or that dissolves the biofilm formed by the hyphae phase, or that keeps the budding yeast cell from forming hyphae. As far as I know that doesn't exist.

    In the meantime, we use lotions or Aloe Vera emulsions that contain ketoconazole, climbazole, piroctone olamine, farnesol and Xylitol. I prefer a topical treatment because it has no side effects. A systemic treatment would involve tinkering with the immune system, which is a bridge too far. Yes, it takes a large amount of time for topicals to penetrate the nail plate, about 8 months or more but that's acceptable to me compared to systemic treatment. The body heals in its own time.

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    Tom, happy to see your replay. Please have a look at the link below, I just want to see your ideas on that lady's experience.

    http://malasseziayeast-mypersonal-ba...emodex-or.html

    Yes skin oil is a dilenma. Is that the immnune response to fight againt "skin dehydration". Malassezia's colonies usually turn from smooth and raised to dry and wrinkle that's why many people who are infected by Malassezia have dedydrated skin (winkle or large pores) and the body willl then release as much as oil to fight against this. Do you think this can be the processe? One of my female friends used to have dehydrated but very oily skin which was developed from just some little fresh coloured skin bumps. Her skin became rough, porus, bumps and very oily she fought against these unknown bumps for 2 years without success. Her doctors claimed that she was suffered from Seborrheic Dermatitis. All the bumps and oiliness disappeared after she applied a sulfur chinese herbs mixed cream for 7 days and her skin returned to be smooth again without visible pores. To me, she sounds like she had malassezia infection rather than Seborrheic Dermatitis since she did not have any flare up or red skin, those fresh colour bumps maybe just folliculitis. And her suddenly crazy oily skin was caused by yeast infection while her normal skin type is not oily. What do you think?


    http://malasseziayeast-mypersonal-battle.blogspot.com/
    Last edited by man_from_mars; 20th September 2013 at 02:24 PM. Reason: corrected link

  10. #30
    Senior Member Tom Busby's Avatar
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    Yes, I emailed Sonota an early version of my Review of OTC Treatments in January, 2013, and she posted it at the end of Part 3 of her Reader Contributions page. I could see that she had tried everything under the Sun and I think I helped her understand the problem -- it's not an infection, it's a condition, and it's best to describe it as seb derm induced by malassezia, which is lipid dependent.

    Your friend's use of a sulfur cream indicates she was treating a demodex condition.

    The wrinkled skin you asked about is not the result of dehydration. Wrinkled skin on a person with seb derm induced by malassezia is caused by the biofilm formed by malassezia and you own skin's keratins and saccharides. This biofilm is less elastic than regular skin, so where the skin is relatively thin (around the eyes and the crook of the arm) it wrinkles slightly, and looks like a small-scale example of the wrinkles on an elephant's skin. The good news is that this biofilm can be exfoliated with the treatments I describe, and the skin returns to normal after about 8 months (in my case).

    Malassezia eludes the body's immune system with this biofilm because it's made from your own skin. There's no evidence that malassezia increases or decreases sebum output.

    I would like to find a natural oil that destroys rather than feeds malassezia -- just today I learned that this kind of research uses the terms "ethnobotany," "ethnobotanicals," or "ethnopharmacology." I had never read these words before, and discovered them while I was looking for research about rosehip seed oil. Here's an example of very good university research being done on botanicals: http://www.epernicus.com/clq
    Last edited by Tom Busby; 20th September 2013 at 08:18 PM.

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