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Thread: Vitamin C therapy

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    Default Vitamin C therapy

    I have been waiting for around a week before posting about my latest treatment, just to see if it stopped working or not.

    Just prior to Xmas, I was hit with MASSIVE flushing and terrible inflammation. In particular, my right upper cheek, which is the same area as my infected root canals, which I have yet to have extracted. Long story concerning that, but suffice to say, I hope to be able to have the surgery within the next few weeks.

    Root canals release a continuous flow of toxins and probably play a large role in my particular case of rosacea and severe flushing.
    I also have systemic and gut infections and other health problems.

    I was a wreck recently, so I opted for the vitamin C megadosing therapy which I have been offered before, but declined back then. I feared vitamin C in large doses would cause more flushing. The clinic I attend routinely implements IV therapy for a variety of reasons, including getting sick patients off long term steroids.

    Anyway, I decided to take the oral form first. 14 to 20 grams ascorbic acid per day. Yes, grams not mgs. Taken in divided doses over 24 hours.

    The turn around was rapid. A dramatic improvement and it was like day and night. I kept looking in the mirror expecting to see a complete inferno face, but I found the opposite.
    I feel better too.

    Next on the list is Liposomal encapsulated vitamin C ( horribly expensive, but less so than the IV form). Lipo C is combined with phospholipids and has the ability to penetrate cellular membranes. It is more bioavailable. I must admit, I fear I will react badly to that as I struggle with dietary fats, even though they are necessary and the best source of fuel.

    An interesting point. Since being on the high dose oral Vitamin C, I have been able to use a moisturizer 'Caroline's cream', which is a non greasy fatty acid topical. My skin is now much healthier. Moist, supple and NO OUTBREAKS!! ALL topicals with even the tiniest hint of oil would reduce my face to a spotty mess within 24 hours.

    I can still flush and I still have neon sign mini flushing, as obviously, the abnormal infrastructure is still there. Particularly on my right upper cheek and other areas of bad flushing. I am much less red over all, however.
    But on a day to day basis, I feel a great sense of freedom. I can shower, eat, play with my puppy without having to grab an icepack every few minutes to prevent my face from exploding in a massive torrent of blood. I can sleep AND without four pillows. I still sleep slightly raised.

    This is not a cure. It is a tool to control the high toxin load I have and helps me cope with my other prescribed treatments.

    This is an interesting video lecture by Dr Levy, a well known vitamin C enthusiast. He is a cardiologist. This particular lecture covers chronic infections.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddgLzQavQzw

    Like all patients at the clinic I attend, I have regular blood tests to monitor my condition.
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Starlite's Avatar
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    Wow Mistica, that's very exciting. Thank you for sharing your process with us. Did you experience a laxative effect taking such high oral dosages of Vit C? Liposomal is the way around that for sure. It sounds like you have found a wonderful clinic.

    I'm sorry about your set back but delighted to hear you are making a come back.

  3. #3
    Senior Member johnabetts's Avatar
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    Is the ascorbic acid you are taking in the form of the free acid or as a salt or other derivative to reduce the acidity?

    Free ascorbic acid in large doses can cause tissue erosion and burns in the mouth and oesophagus and even cause damage to teeth. It can also cause digestive upsets.

    Liposomal material would be better but, are you able to retain that quantity of ascorbic acid within your digestive tract?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    Ascorbic acid powder, not combined with salts. It is not recommended to take large doses of calcium ascorbate, for example, due to the negative impact of taking so much calcium.
    Some people take sodium ascorbate, but in my case, it was deemed ascorbic acid alone was better.

    I do worry about my teeth and acidity contact with tissues. I mix each dose with lots of water and drink it rapidly through a straw, aiming the straw at the back of my mouth.
    Followed up with plain water to wash out my mouth and to drink.
    I then chew xylitol gum, which I do several times per day anyway.

    I don't experience a laxative effect until I have had around to 16 to 18 grams. At least, that was how it was to start with, but as I have improved, my bowel tolerance has lowered. I was told this is the norm.

    Ascorbic acid has limitations. It is not overly bioavailable. That is why I am keen to try the liposomal form. While at the same time, feeling a little nervous in case I react badly to it.
    I am also keen to try the lipo form, as I don't feel comfortable about taking mega doses of Vitamin C long term, even though many other patients do it.

    I even went to the dog park this afternoon after it started to cool. I have been without anything more than a tiny bit of joint pain all day. The last time I saw my doc, I hobbled into his room and it hurt to open my mouth. I did start to overheat in the dog park and needed to apply an ice pack to my face couple of times, but over all, compared to how I have been, it was a breeze.

    I keep waiting for everything to come crashing down again. You know how it is with treatments. They have a limited life for most of us.
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

  5. #5
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    This is interesting and must be very good news for you. Congratulations on not giving up. Is there any research you know of on what the mechanism could be?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlhamcat2 View Post
    This is interesting and must be very good news for you. Congratulations on not giving up. Is there any research you know of on what the mechanism could be?
    That link I attached explains a lot.
    Vitamin C is antibacterial, antiviral and helps the body to cope with toxins. I have a high load.
    If you want to learn about the technical stuff, I advise watching the on line lectures given by Dr Levy.
    He is a good speaker and has an evangelical like quality, but if you overlook all that and just focus on the facts, he is very informative.
    Dr Powell, the Rheumatologist I often mention here, also implements high dose vitamin C in his therapies.
    His position is ( as is mine), the reason for chronic disease, including some autoimmune diseases are:

    Nutritional deficiencies
    Toxins
    Infections, including stealth infections.
    The latter take advantage if the first two are in place.
    He always says "terrain is everything. Fix that first".

    One of the most well known cases to be saved by vitamin C therapy was a very sick man, Alan Smith ( I think that's his name) from NZ. He nearly died of swine flu and the docs tried all they could to pull the plug on his life support, but his sons intervened and insisted he be given IV vitamin C. It saved his life. You can look at the before and after X-rays of his lungs on line. Initially they were known as 'white out' lungs, ie, no air pockets at all. After one or two days of IV vitamin C, he had developed a few air pockets. The hospital wouldn't acknowledge the role of vitamin C and the politics surrounding the case became complex.

    http://www.cpnaustralia.com/vitamin-c.html

    By the way, I know the authors of that above website. In fact, the lady who was safely taken off steroids with the aid of mega dose vitamin C, visited me today.

    So, in summary, in my case, vitamin C is a tool, helping my body cope with infections/toxins and probably nutritional deficiencies as well. The only proven one so far is iodine. And well, I suppose, vitamin C, even though I was taking 1500mg prior.
    Vitamin C does cause vasodilation too, but oddly, I don't seem to be experiencing this effect in my face. Thank goodness for that!
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    Oh, I should mention, in the text of that above link, where it says 20mg, it should say 20 grams. The author hasn't amended that error yet.
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

  8. #8
    Senior Member johnabetts's Avatar
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    One of the breakdown products of ascorbic acid in the body is oxalate or oxalic acid. This can form kidney stones - more likely with massive doses. Keep an eye on your urine for blood (not necessarily showing as red but can be a diffuse cloudiness, crystals which glint in the light and be aware of pain or discomfort when urinating.

    Drink plenty of fluid.

    Going back to your infected root canals, surely there would be an almost immediate relief of at least part of your problems if you had this treated. Untreated dental infections can cause all sorts of seemingly unconnected problems such as bacterial endocarditis in which organisms from the dental problems "set up residence" within the heart itself, often with disastrous consequences.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnabetts View Post
    One of the breakdown products of ascorbic acid in the body is oxalate or oxalic acid. This can form kidney stones - more likely with massive doses. Keep an eye on your urine for blood (not necessarily showing as red but can be a diffuse cloudiness, crystals which glint in the light and be aware of pain or discomfort when urinating.

    Drink plenty of fluid.

    Going back to your infected root canals, surely there would be an almost immediate relief of at least part of your problems if you had this treated. Untreated dental infections can cause all sorts of seemingly unconnected problems such as bacterial endocarditis in which organisms from the dental problems "set up residence" within the heart itself, often with disastrous consequences.
    Hi John,

    I am aware of all of the above, but thanks anyway

    It would appear, that the kidney stone formation, while still something to be considered and monitored is one of those enduring myths in the medical world.
    As I mentioned I undergo frequent tests for all sorts of things.

    Regarding the connection between dental disease, including root canals and systemic problems, I have posted about this several times.
    I am sure I have this myself.
    There is also a great connection between oral health and gut health. The pathogenic bacteria often match.

    I have been trying to get those pesky teeth extracted since last May!!! But I am a complex case and it isn't just a matter of making an appoinment and getting it done.
    In fact, I wish I had had them out some years ago during better phases, as it might have saved me some of the hell I am experiencing now.
    I couldn't open my mouth wide enough for the surgeon to get his tools in the last time I saw him. I can't have general anaesthetics, so the extraction and bone resection has to be done under locals. (Oh joy!). I am the Queen of adverse drug reactions, I don't clot properly, and my flushing can be so severe, my face can engorge in seconds, without the application of ice packs. I can't do this during the procedure, obviously, so we have had to wait.
    If my face engorges/a swollen crimson blob, it remains that way. I spent over two years like that, needing numerous IPL treatments, tons of antibiotics and other treatments to try and reverse the horrendous state. (All with side effects!) I never, ever want to get like that again. I couldn't endure it
    Yet, I know those teeth have to come out, as they are no doubt poisoning me. It is a vicious cycle.

    It should be noted I had rosacea prior to having anything wrong with my teeth, but I have always felt there was a connection with them and my development of severe flushing.
    Having said that, I have various health issues and I am sure they all play off each other.

    Vitamin C is offering me a lot of relief right now, and giving my body a chance to rest, recover, perhaps rebuild some collagen as well? But I do worry about the side effects.
    As my doc says, if anyone is going to have a side effect, it is going to be me. The fine print person.
    Still, given my state, it is worth the risk.
    And if you ask the vitamin C physicians, they consider the risk extremely low.
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    Time for a brief update.

    High dose oral Vitamin C continues to help me. I have to take the high doses throughout the day for the best effect, which can interfere with eating. I do get tired of the regimented regime, however, when in the midst of a severe flushing episode, like most people, I'd pretty much do anything to quieten things down.

    Recently I have been testing oral liposomal encapulated vitamin C. I have been really afraid of adverse reactions given the fact it contains lipids.
    I think I am having a small adverse reaction as I have times of more inflammation, but at the same time I wonder if it is doing something else, as I also feel fluish some hours later. Over all, I think I am still benefiting from it, but too soon to really decide yet.
    I am still taking the oral powder as well, but at different times during the day. And lower doses.

    I find that the vitamin C, plus my recent addition of new topical care has improved matters for me.

    All this in conjunction with my oral antimicrobials for treatment of gut infections.

    It would be great if things improved further once I have had the problematic root canals out.
    I am dreading the procedure.

    Topicals:

    I have currently stopped using my topical Sulphur/Sulfacetamide in favour of the following.

    Upon rising, gently wash face with Dr Ohirra's Kampuku Beauty Bar (supposedly contains active probiotics). I don't leave it on for more than a minute, or less.

    Apply Caroline's cream.

    Some evenings, if I feel my face is looking like the veins on upper cheeks ( in particular) are getting ready to become active, further inflamed, I will gently wash with the soap bar again.
    I have found that over using the soap can be irritating.

    If I don't use the soap in the evening, I just gently rinse my face in cool water, pat dry and apply the cream again.

    There is something in that cream which is calming. I think it might be the Golden Seal.
    I have tried topicals before with borage oil etc and they only served to inflame my face and cause lots of breakouts. This cream doesn't break me out at all.
    Perhaps it would without the soap? Who knows, but all I know is, my regime is helping keep things much calmer and Golden Seal is the only different ingredient.
    Working in conjunction with above regime.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldenseal

    I am no longer getting the inflamed area around my nose and mouth that I have often suspected is a low grade seb derm infection. Or a return of PD.
    The soap alone seems to have some positive impact on that, but the soap alone, can become irritating.

    http://www.carolineskincare.com/ingr..._benefits.html

    Even though the ingredient list show the oils to be at the top of the list, on the actual tube, the golden Seal is the main ingredient and most of the other ingredients are listed as non active.
    I like it. It soaks right in leaving my skin dewy, but NOT greasy.
    Last edited by Mistica; 11th January 2013 at 07:54 AM.
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

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