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Thread: Demodectic Rosacea - The Chicken, Not the Egg

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    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Default Demodectic Rosacea - The Chicken, Not the Egg

    Demodectic Rosacea has been a controversial subject for some time now. The main issue is whether the demodex mites are the culprit or whether pre-existing rosacea increases the mites density counts. The old chicken or egg problem, which comes first? An article that came out in epublishing in October of last year which was published in European Academy of Dermatological Venereology where a researcher said the mite may be "the missing link in understanding the onset of subtype 2 (papulopustular) rosacea, characterized by redness with bumps and pimples." The NRS today published an article, The Chicken, Not the Egg about this article. I have written an extensive article about Demodex and Rosacea. No doubt this controversy will continue.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.rosacea.org/weblog/2012/0..._egg/index.php

    http://members.rosacea-research-and-...?showtopic=885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    the mite may be "the missing link in understanding the onset of subtype 2 (papulopustular) rosacea, characterized by redness with bumps and pimples."
    Why not all types of rosacea. I saw this the other day:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22709541

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    I have no doubt that demodex plays a part in Rosacea but it's not the answer for everyone. Some people try sulfur/tea tree oil/ hydrogen peroxide/ topical ivermectin etc and see a significant improvement while others do not. I think it's worth trying this approach to rule it out but it is not the answer for all. For me, I belive Demodex contributes to my condition but is not the only cause. Topical demodex killers do provide me with some improvement but not total clearance.

    -Dave-

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    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloem View Post
    Why not all types of rosacea. I saw this the other day:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22709541
    Not all types of rosacea are demodectic. What percentage of rosacea patients suffer from demdectic rosacea remains unknown. Most dermatologists do not take demodex density counts. The prevailing assumption is that if the count is high on a rosacea patient that treatment for demodex should determine if the patient responds positively to eradicating or reducing the number. However, not all patients respond well to mite eradication or reduction. Not all rosacea patients have high demodex density counts. If we had data from testing 10,000 rosacea patients who were tested with demodex density counts over a long period of time we would know more, especially if we knew what percentage responded well to treatment for demodex. But the prevailing view is that the demodex mite is a passive player in rosacea and is an 'innocent bystander' in the minds of many dermatologists. However the papers continue to be written about demodex and rosacea, like the one in this thread from the NRS which indicates that at the very least there is a variant (or possibly a subtype) of rosacea that is demodectic. Probably as this gains acceptance in the medical community of rosacea authorities and dermatologists either test for demodectic rosacea or treat for it there will be more data and even more papers. The tide has turned toward recognizing demodectic rosacea.

    For more info:

    Demodectic Rosacea
    http://members.rosacea-research-and-...?showtopic=885

    Non-invasive in vivo detection and quantification of Demodex mites by confocal laser scanning microscopy.
    Sattler EC, Maier T, Hoffmann VS, Hegyi J, Ruzicka T, Berking C.
    Br J Dermatol. 2012 Jun 20. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2133.2012.11096.x.

    Counting Demodex Mites with a Confocal Laser Microscope
    David Pascoe
    Rosacea Support Group

    Demodectic Rosacea - Variant or Subtype?
    http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...s/message/6010
    Last edited by Brady Barrows; 6th July 2012 at 06:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flying_er View Post
    I have no doubt that demodex plays a part in Rosacea but it's not the answer for everyone. Some people try sulfur/tea tree oil/ hydrogen peroxide/ topical ivermectin etc and see a significant improvement while others do not. I think it's worth trying this approach to rule it out but it is not the answer for all. For me, I belive Demodex contributes to my condition but is not the only cause. Topical demodex killers do provide me with some improvement but not total clearance.

    -Dave-
    Hi Dave,

    I'm one of those "some people" to an extent. I simultaneously started a Paleo diet (very strict) with my topicals. The results were swift.

    I thought my skin couldn't get better [than it became under these disciplines].

    Lately, I had official word that I am very allergic to dairy (it's a delayed response, that is key). I cold turkeyed and my skin is even better. If not for the old scarring it would be perfect.

    You're right -- demodex contributes, it is not the cause. But certain things make the conditions right for demodex to do their evil.

    I have said that [in my case] the diet does it all. The topicals I recommend turbo-charge the relief. (Caveat: you have to know what NOT to eat. I got lucky guessing dumping carbs and such.)

    G
    "It's all illusion anyway."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Hi Dave,

    I'm one of those "some people" to an extent. I simultaneously started a Paleo diet (very strict) with my topicals. The results were swift.

    I thought my skin couldn't get better [than it became under these disciplines].

    Lately, I had official word that I am very allergic to dairy (it's a delayed response, that is key). I cold turkeyed and my skin is even better. If not for the old scarring it would be perfect.

    You're right -- demodex contributes, it is not the cause. But certain things make the conditions right for demodex to do their evil.

    I have said that [in my case] the diet does it all. The topicals I recommend turbo-charge the relief. (Caveat: you have to know what NOT to eat. I got lucky guessing dumping carbs and such.)

    G
    Hi Ghost,

    So currently can you stay clear just using the diet or do you also need to use the mite killer routine?

    -Dave-

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    Quote Originally Posted by flying_er View Post
    Hi Ghost,

    So currently can you stay clear just using the diet or do you also need to use the mite killer routine?

    -Dave-
    Dave, I am pleased to report that since I dropped all dairy in addition to the usual suspects I have not needed a bug-killing topical. So, no simple carbs (you know the list), no dairy.

    G
    Last edited by Ghost; 6th July 2012 at 11:04 PM.
    "It's all illusion anyway."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Dave, I am pleased to report that since I dropped all dairy in addition to the usual suspects I have not needed a bug-killing topical. So, no simple carbs (you know the list), no dairy.

    G
    Hi Ghost

    So glad to hear the Paleo diet is working for you. I know grains can lead to inflammation (lectin) so it's a good idea to cut those out.

    Can you eat potatoes? I think sweet potatoes are ok, but the 'white' sort are not. Too much starch or something.

    Sally

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally View Post
    Hi Ghost

    So glad to hear the Paleo diet is working for you. I know grains can lead to inflammation (lectin) so it's a good idea to cut those out.

    Can you eat potatoes? I think sweet potatoes are ok, but the 'white' sort are not. Too much starch or something.

    Sally
    Sally, I have not eaten many potatoes since I went paleo. I admit the only ones I did were served as french fries with my big paleo burger (I'd like to hear Jimmy Buffet sing about that!). I did not eat the bun, however. This sort of thing only happens on vacation.

    I don't know re sweet potatoes (or yams -- or even which is which), because I see conflicting info on them, and I don't like 'em, anyway.

    Are you doing Paleo?

    G
    "It's all illusion anyway."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Sally, I have not eaten many potatoes since I went paleo. I admit the only ones I did were served as french fries with my big paleo burger (I'd like to hear Jimmy Buffet sing about that!). I did not eat the bun, however. This sort of thing only happens on vacation.

    I don't know re sweet potatoes (or yams -- or even which is which), because I see conflicting info on them, and I don't like 'em, anyway.

    Are you doing Paleo?

    G
    Not yet, but thinking about it. Definitely giving up grains. I love porridge but I feel it does cause inflammation.

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