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Thread: Following up on IPL after a previous IPL setback

  1. #1
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    Default Following up on IPL after a previous IPL setback

    HI all,

    I'm just wondering if there is anyone on here who was game enough to take on IPL after an initial setback from it.

    I have had 1 IPL session which caused a lot of damage. I've been to 2 derms who have basically said they don't know anything about IPL.

    My problem is that I have a little bits of permenant damage or extra redness/pinkness in parts i didn't have before. I am not confused as to whether my IPL stirred up the rosacea or damaged the skin beyond repair.

    I see the extra little red parts from my face and wonder if any sort of IPL could take away this damage or create further damage.

    Has anyone encountered IPL sessions where you had a really bad session which stirred up your skin and then you continued with your IPL and found that this damage or stirring up of the skin improved?

    I have no doubts my negligent practitioner who gave me IPL had the settings on way way too high

    B4U

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    [QUOTE=burnforyou;296115]HI all,

    I'm just wondering if there is anyone on here who was game enough to take on IPL after an initial setback from it.

    I have had 1 IPL session which caused a lot of damage. I've been to 2 derms who have basically said they don't know anything about IPL.

    My problem is that I have a little bits of permenant damage or extra redness/pinkness in parts i didn't have before. I am not confused as to whether my IPL stirred up the rosacea or damaged the skin beyond repair.

    I see the extra little red parts from my face and wonder if any sort of IPL could take away this damage or create further damage.

    Has anyone encountered IPL sessions where you had a really bad session which stirred up your skin and then you continued with your IPL and found that this damage or stirring up of the skin improved?

    I have no doubts my negligent practitioner who gave me IPL had the settings on way way too high

    B4U[/QUOTE

    I had a vbeam treatment back in February that has made my rosacea worse, flushing and burning I didn't have prior to the treatment. I too think the settings were too high and caused a flare up. It's been 9 weeks since the treatment, I'm totally bummed. I've seen a few dermatologists one thinks the treatment was too strong and the other says the laser wouldn't cause damage and could be a coincidence but I know my skin and theres no way its a coincidence. Let me know how things work out for you. I could use some advice as well.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnforyou View Post
    HI all,

    I'm just wondering if there is anyone on here who was game enough to take on IPL after an initial setback from it.

    I have had 1 IPL session which caused a lot of damage. I've been to 2 derms who have basically said they don't know anything about IPL.

    My problem is that I have a little bits of permenant damage or extra redness/pinkness in parts i didn't have before. I am not confused as to whether my IPL stirred up the rosacea or damaged the skin beyond repair.

    I see the extra little red parts from my face and wonder if any sort of IPL could take away this damage or create further damage.

    Has anyone encountered IPL sessions where you had a really bad session which stirred up your skin and then you continued with your IPL and found that this damage or stirring up of the skin improved?

    I have no doubts my negligent practitioner who gave me IPL had the settings on way way too high

    B4U

    I am confused as to what you mean by damage.

    Do you mean areas of increased redness/flushing only?
    Or do you mean you have indents, fat loss, etc?

    If you mean you have areas of increased redness/flushing/burning, but the skin structure is normal, then more IPL treatments would likely be feasible. You would have reason to hope for a reversible of your symptoms and over all improvement.

    In answer to your question, in the past, I have had treatments which worsened my rosacea, and the cause was too aggressive an approach. The energies were far too high.
    After a period of recovery, I went on to have further treatments with suitable settings and I finally achieved complete clearance of my rosacea. It was bliss and I maintained a virtual clearance for some years.
    That was years ago, before I became a severe flusher. This changed everything. In my case, I developed other health problems and they fuel the rosacea/flushing.

    Another point to consider is, were the settings used in your treatment, really gentle?
    If they were, it is possible you lack the ability to control/switch off inflammation.
    This is nearly always a result of poor gut flora. Google Tregs - Suppressor T cells.
    In my case, we have proven I have a slight deficiency of these. I also have elevated ACE, and a few other abnormalites.

    When I first started to have IPL years ago, the top machine was the Photoderm. No one had more than one pass. Reports of side effects in the form of structural damage were very rare. The crystal ( part applied to the face) never made contact with the skin. It was 'floated' in a sausage shaped strip of gel. Much like the effect you would get if you squeezed out a tube of cream. The light diffused somewhat, but the results in my opinion were good, ... as long as the settings were appropriate.
    There were no 'cooling heads' in those days, so floating in the gel was a must.
    If the energies were too high, burns could occur and I had some of these. Fortunately they didn't leave structural damage.
    Since the IPL machines have 'advanced', reports of structural damage have become frequent. I am not sure if it is due to the common triple pass technique, or the fact the crystal is now placed directly on the skin, or if the more direct and intense shot of light might have side effects that were not initially considered. Perhaps the previous light diffusion was advantageous as it reduced the possibility of intense oxidative stress? All I know is, reports of damage are frequent these days, as can be seen in this forum and many others.

    I have IPL induced damage now.In my case I have had far too many treatments, they were done too closely together and there were occasions when the energies were excessive.
    My worst damage came from one of the newer machines. I only had one pass treatments with this.

    Yet, despite damage, I would still advocate IPL as a very helpful treatment, as long as it is implemented by a seasoned operator who knows what he/she is doing. And as long as there is no known reason which would make the patient unsuitable for treatment.
    But, I think IPL is only truly useful if the vasculature is excessive and has been remodelled to such an extent is can no longer recover after localised inflammation has been reduced or eliminated.

    My advice to you would be as follows:

    Establish if you really have structural damage, or just an increase in facial redness/flushing/burning etc.

    Try and improve your gut health and if you have already tried and it is not working, consider a different gut approach.

    Perhaps try controlling facial symptoms with a sulphur based product at the same time.
    Lotions and potions often make symptoms worse.

    Find a different GP. One who is experienced in finding causes for health issues, rather than trying to suppress symptoms with useless methods.
    If I recall correctly, you live not too far from me. You could consider consulting my doctor. His entire practice is made up of 'hard basket' cases, all of whom have complex chronic disease.

    Also, you could interview other IPL operators and see what they have to say. Perhaps have some test patches done to see how your face reacts.

    I have just remembered something else. Back in the old days.... it was quite common to get a bit worse before getting better with IPL treatments. It took around 3 treatments to see any improvement. In my case I had delightful results from the first treatment. It lasted 10 days, after which burning returned, with some blotchy inflammation. I was fortunate that the majority of redness and masses of visible vessels did not return. However, it took a number of additional treatments before things settled down once and for all.
    I also had melasma at the time, which complicated matters. It was felt, if I did not have that, my recovery from the rosacea would have been quicker.
    Looking back, I am sure it would have been quicker still if I had known anything about diet and the importance of a gut based immune system. I had little clue and didn't address that side of things at all.

    Anyway, I have rambled...... but these are my thoughts. I hope they are helpful in some way
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

  4. #4
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    Mistica,

    Trust me, you did not ramble. That reply to me was gold and I think you touched on a few areas where I was concerned.

    As far as the damage is concerned, I definitely have more redness than before.

    I have no doubts that the practitioner lied to me about her experience and the heat was way way too aggressive. Originally, my rosacea was confined mostly to just one cheek. The other cheek had slight burning but was barely noticeable. If you were to see me normally, you would not know at all that i had rosacea.

    I trusted this practitioner and she gave me a full face treatment. I am now hypersensitive in every spot that she hit with IPL. When i have a shower now, my face reacts and I can see the map on my face where she hit the IPL. My face doesn't go beet red, but more a pinkish colour. I also received a burn, like a cigarette burn on my face next to my nose. When i look very closely at my skin, I can see swirl like shapes in my skin under both of my eyes. It is not noticeable unless i really pointed them out. I also have what looks like the same damage on the lower part of my cheek. Again, it looks like my skin is loose (difficult to describe).

    My skin now is very very senititive. One side when i look closely looks as though it has an orange/pink colour over my skin. Again, it is not extremely damaged and probably much more noticeable to me. But, considering i could hardly notice it before, it seems much more noticable now. Also on either side of my nose running from my nostrils up to under my eyes, i can see extra pinkness than the rest of my face after a shower. I never had this before. I am guessing she was maybe more aggressive in these areas as my burn occured in this area.

    Of course i am my own worst critic, but as you know, we notice every little change to our skin. For about six months after y IPL treatemnt my skin felt waxy and water would fel like it was just slipping off my face where i had treatment, if yo uunderstand what i mean. Now it is less of a waxy texture but the skin hasn't improved or become less reactive.

    I get no burning now like i used to which is a small plus. However, I would take the burning to be back to where i was prior to the IPL. I really feel like one side of my face is less damaged than the other. I get the feeling that after she burned me (cigarette burn) she turned down the setting slightly, but it iddn't help.

    I really appreciate your feedback. I hope you understand how i tried to describe it. Is it possible for more treatment to lessen the sensitivity?

    Oh, i asked the lady about the settings of the maching but she was very vague and just said they were normal when i called her a month after my treatment.

    I am now giving finacea a go, but have no idea if it will work. I don't have bumps or pimples which i thought it was for. My skin is smooth, just feels sensitive and looks pinker in a lot of areas.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

    Thanks again!

    B4u

  5. #5
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    Default Thank you Mistica

    Mistica -

    I want to personally thank you very much for your information. I am not sure if you realize how extremely helpful it is. I too am undergoing IPl and and trying to stay optimistic. My new complication is a very swollen rosacea nose. Not red or with P&P but just very swollen. I worry about this a lot.

    Thank you again for taking the time to inform all of us.

    Wendy



    Quote Originally Posted by Mistica View Post
    I am confused as to what you mean by damage.

    Do you mean areas of increased redness/flushing only?
    Or do you mean you have indents, fat loss, etc?

    If you mean you have areas of increased redness/flushing/burning, but the skin structure is normal, then more IPL treatments would likely be feasible. You would have reason to hope for a reversible of your symptoms and over all improvement.

    In answer to your question, in the past, I have had treatments which worsened my rosacea, and the cause was too aggressive an approach. The energies were far too high.
    After a period of recovery, I went on to have further treatments with suitable settings and I finally achieved complete clearance of my rosacea. It was bliss and I maintained a virtual clearance for some years.
    That was years ago, before I became a severe flusher. This changed everything. In my case, I developed other health problems and they fuel the rosacea/flushing.

    Another point to consider is, were the settings used in your treatment, really gentle?
    If they were, it is possible you lack the ability to control/switch off inflammation.
    This is nearly always a result of poor gut flora. Google Tregs - Suppressor T cells.
    In my case, we have proven I have a slight deficiency of these. I also have elevated ACE, and a few other abnormalites.

    When I first started to have IPL years ago, the top machine was the Photoderm. No one had more than one pass. Reports of side effects in the form of structural damage were very rare. The crystal ( part applied to the face) never made contact with the skin. It was 'floated' in a sausage shaped strip of gel. Much like the effect you would get if you squeezed out a tube of cream. The light diffused somewhat, but the results in my opinion were good, ... as long as the settings were appropriate.
    There were no 'cooling heads' in those days, so floating in the gel was a must.
    If the energies were too high, burns could occur and I had some of these. Fortunately they didn't leave structural damage.
    Since the IPL machines have 'advanced', reports of structural damage have become frequent. I am not sure if it is due to the common triple pass technique, or the fact the crystal is now placed directly on the skin, or if the more direct and intense shot of light might have side effects that were not initially considered. Perhaps the previous light diffusion was advantageous as it reduced the possibility of intense oxidative stress? All I know is, reports of damage are frequent these days, as can be seen in this forum and many others.

    I have IPL induced damage now.In my case I have had far too many treatments, they were done too closely together and there were occasions when the energies were excessive.
    My worst damage came from one of the newer machines. I only had one pass treatments with this.

    Yet, despite damage, I would still advocate IPL as a very helpful treatment, as long as it is implemented by a seasoned operator who knows what he/she is doing. And as long as there is no known reason which would make the patient unsuitable for treatment.
    But, I think IPL is only truly useful if the vasculature is excessive and has been remodelled to such an extent is can no longer recover after localised inflammation has been reduced or eliminated.

    My advice to you would be as follows:

    Establish if you really have structural damage, or just an increase in facial redness/flushing/burning etc.

    Try and improve your gut health and if you have already tried and it is not working, consider a different gut approach.

    Perhaps try controlling facial symptoms with a sulphur based product at the same time.
    Lotions and potions often make symptoms worse.

    Find a different GP. One who is experienced in finding causes for health issues, rather than trying to suppress symptoms with useless methods.
    If I recall correctly, you live not too far from me. You could consider consulting my doctor. His entire practice is made up of 'hard basket' cases, all of whom have complex chronic disease.

    Also, you could interview other IPL operators and see what they have to say. Perhaps have some test patches done to see how your face reacts.

    I have just remembered something else. Back in the old days.... it was quite common to get a bit worse before getting better with IPL treatments. It took around 3 treatments to see any improvement. In my case I had delightful results from the first treatment. It lasted 10 days, after which burning returned, with some blotchy inflammation. I was fortunate that the majority of redness and masses of visible vessels did not return. However, it took a number of additional treatments before things settled down once and for all.
    I also had melasma at the time, which complicated matters. It was felt, if I did not have that, my recovery from the rosacea would have been quicker.
    Looking back, I am sure it would have been quicker still if I had known anything about diet and the importance of a gut based immune system. I had little clue and didn't address that side of things at all.

    Anyway, I have rambled...... but these are my thoughts. I hope they are helpful in some way

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnforyou View Post
    HI all,

    I'm just wondering if there is anyone on here who was game enough to take on IPL after an initial setback from it.

    I have had 1 IPL session which caused a lot of damage. I've been to 2 derms who have basically said they don't know anything about IPL.

    My problem is that I have a little bits of permenant damage or extra redness/pinkness in parts i didn't have before. I am not confused as to whether my IPL stirred up the rosacea or damaged the skin beyond repair.

    I see the extra little red parts from my face and wonder if any sort of IPL could take away this damage or create further damage.

    Has anyone encountered IPL sessions where you had a really bad session which stirred up your skin and then you continued with your IPL and found that this damage or stirring up of the skin improved?

    I have no doubts my negligent practitioner who gave me IPL had the settings on way way too high

    B4U
    Hi burnforyou, I agree with the other poster, find a reputable IPL practitioner that can advise you on the best method forward. That said, it was a highly qualified and reputable dermatologist that caused my problems. Unlike your damage which occured immediatley, I seemed to be making good progress with continued treatments but underlying damage was being done in the process. More IPL to repair IPL damage does not sound advisable to me though if I can express my honest opinion. Excuse this but a silly thought that comes to my mind is that it's like wanting to heal a gun shot wound with another gun shot. Stupid but that's just me being overly cautious, I'm no expert and hopefully you can find a practitioner that will give you real advice and not just try push another treatment for the sake of it. If it's just redness and not structural or texture damage then perhaps it will be easier to resolve. Iowa David has mentioned that low level red light can assist in repairing damage done by IPL/laser and I'm looking into that, maybe you could chat to him. All the best.

  7. #7
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    Hi ShaunD,

    Yeah, I have those same fears about taking on IPL again. I have gone through a really tough time accepting all of this and the negligence of the practitioner. But, i have no other choice than to accept it even though I have been in a terrible place mentally.

    I'm going to take a long term patient view on it all. Even though I don't have acne rosacea, I am going to give finacea a try for about 6 months to a year. Then I think i will try RLT or use it while I am putting on finacea. If all of that fails, I may try IPL again. But, i do think the same way as you trying to fix IPL with IPL.

    But, Mistica has given me some hope and I will definitely go to the best derm/IPL person i can find who will have my best interests at heart. And, if i chose to do it , I would get a test patch on a very low setting. I am still sceptical because i just don't think my skin may be right for it. On the other hand, I am desperate to get back to where I was prior to my IPL. I'm also a little sceptical of RLT because it seems like I am using a source of heat to fix a problem I have got from too much heat applied to my face through IPL.

    It has been a tough year and a bit for me, as you can probably understand. How are you handling it mentally?

    B

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by burnforyou View Post
    Hi ShaunD,

    Yeah, I have those same fears about taking on IPL again. I have gone through a really tough time accepting all of this and the negligence of the practitioner. But, i have no other choice than to accept it even though I have been in a terrible place mentally.

    I'm going to take a long term patient view on it all. Even though I don't have acne rosacea, I am going to give finacea a try for about 6 months to a year. Then I think i will try RLT or use it while I am putting on finacea. If all of that fails, I may try IPL again. But, i do think the same way as you trying to fix IPL with IPL.

    But, Mistica has given me some hope and I will definitely go to the best derm/IPL person i can find who will have my best interests at heart. And, if i chose to do it , I would get a test patch on a very low setting. I am still sceptical because i just don't think my skin may be right for it. On the other hand, I am desperate to get back to where I was prior to my IPL. I'm also a little sceptical of RLT because it seems like I am using a source of heat to fix a problem I have got from too much heat applied to my face through IPL.

    It has been a tough year and a bit for me, as you can probably understand. How are you handling it mentally?

    B
    burnforyou, mentally it's very tough, it has ups and downs. The fact that I chose to have IPL and even extended treatments makes it worse at times, being sort of self inflicted damage to an extent rubs salt into the wounds. But I try not think about that and hopefully you don't either, you must just do your best to stay positive and if at all possible learn from the experience. Great that we can chat here and share our feelings and frustrations. Give the finacea a go but just be extra cautious if your skin is tender and inflamed, listen to your skin. I don't know how effective it is but hopefully it can help you. Less is more is sometimes the best approach to take, and obviously patience. I must add that I have been taking a Grape seed complex supplement (grape seed, vit E, vit C, bioflavonoids) and my skin definitely feels a bit stronger in the damaged areas. By no means has it solved the problem but I feel and see a difference. I've read that alpha lipoic acid is another great antioxidant that can assist in protecting and moderately repairing the skin. And don't forget to drink lots of great water, it really does help!! Looking after the gut helps inflammation on the outside and it's wise to take that approach as well during healing or just always. Stay positive and I'm sure you'll see improvement.

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