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Thread: H Pylori or Demodex may cause Rosacea subtype 1

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    Default H Pylori or Demodex may cause Rosacea subtype 1

    Med Hypotheses. 2015 Jan 31. pii: S0306-9877(15)00057-2. doi: 10.1016/j.mehy.2015.01.036. [Epub ahead of print]
    Hypothesis of demodicidosis rosacea flushing etiopathogenesis.
    Robledo MA1, Orduz M2.
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    Abstract
    Most of the patients with erythematotelangiectatic rosacea are characterized by flushing, oedema and telangiectasia. The etiopathogenesis of the flushing in rosacea patients is unknown. Clinically the flushing in rosacea is similar to the "Asian flushing syndrome". Most Asians have an overactive alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) that tends to break down alcohol into acetaldehyde faster. People with "Asians flushing syndrome" have a genetic disorder with the Aldehyde Dehydrogenase 2∗2 (ALDH2∗2) allele. This is the reason why they do not metabolize very well the acetaldehyde that comes from the alcohol, which means that acetaldehyde takes much longer to clear from their blood. ALDH2 enzyme is primarily responsible for oxidation of acetaldehyde derived from ethanol metabolism, as well as oxidation of various other endogenous and exogenous aldehydes. Acetaldehyde produces the vasodilatation in the "Asian flushing syndrome". The antibodies against the GroEl chaperonin protein, a 62-kDa heat shock protein were found in the Bacillus oleronius isolated from Demodex mites, in rosacea patients. The GroEl chaperonin protein is a protein that plays a key role in normal folding of ALDH2. If the GroEl chaperonin antibodies found in patients with rosacea, cross react with the human GroEl chaperonin protein, they will not fold normally the ALDH2, and then the enzyme will not metabolize the acetaldehyde. Many of the patients with rosacea have a concomitant infection with Helicobacter pylori in their stomach. The H.pylori produces high amounts of acetaldehyde, which comes from their metabolism of ethanol or carbohydrates. As a result, high amounts of acetaldehyde will circulate for longer time in the blood, until the liver CYP2E1(p450) enzyme system finally metabilizes the acetaldehyde, during that period of time the patients will experience a flushing as well as the people with the "Asian flushing syndrome" suffer when they drink ethanol. To prove the hypothesis it is necessary to find the cross reaction between the GroEl chaperonin antibodies against the B.oleronius and human GroEl chaperonin. Four groups of patients will be studied with or without the GroEl chaperonin antibodies, and H.Pylori. The production of acetaldehyde will be tested by the ethanol-derived microbial production method. If the hypothesis proves to be true, the treatment of Demodex mites and the H. pylori could improve the flushing in the rosacea patients and it will prevent the angiogenesis (telangiectasia), and the association of the gastric injury and carcinogenesis in those patients.

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    sounds interesting. It's the first time i hear a hypothesis including genetics, digestive and microbial causes altogether. Isn't there a way for us to test if we're high on acetyldehyde?

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    Well it is a fact,and not a hypothesis that H Pylori produce Acetaldehyde from certain food or drink. Im not sure if there is a test for Acetaldehyde but possibly a better way to find this out is to have a H Pylori blood or breath test.

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    I meant the rosacea pathogenesis hypothesis explored in the study above, because h. pylori alone surely doesn't provoke rosacea. What I find somewhat strange is that, if this theory about "asian flush" gene is right, why don't asians get rosacea? Either they don't have demodex or h.pylori? but both seem to be pretty common.

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    Rosacea is not a rare diagnosis in skin of colour and H Pylori may be the cause of Rosacea for a certain percentage of people.

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    Default demodex

    Quote Originally Posted by babadah View Post
    I meant the rosacea pathogenesis hypothesis explored in the study above, because h. pylori alone surely doesn't provoke rosacea. What I find somewhat strange is that, if this theory about "asian flush" gene is right, why don't asians get rosacea? Either they don't have demodex or h.pylori? but both seem to be pretty common.

    How does a person know if their Rosacea is caused by the demodex mites? Can you actually see them? And if so, where? Is there a test my dermatologist can do to determine if Demodex mites are the problem? Thank you.

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    dermatologist can test if you have demodex by scrubbing your face and watching it in microscope. But it's not very clear if they are rosacea's culprit. It looks more like it's demodex and other stuff combined, possibly H.pylori

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    Hi Terrieb. A Demodex test would probably be a waste of time because some forms of testing are not very accurate. An empirical test would probably be best. Youre flying the American flag and you are in the right country at the right time. Soolantra was just released recently in the States by Galderma for the topical treatment of demodex.

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    The test for demodex is called the Standard Skin Surface Biopsy. It's fairly simple: are there 5 or more demodex in a 1 cm square?

    To do this the MD takes an 11mm circle of superglue on a glass slide, which is about 1 cm squared, but a drop of superglue is round, not square. A circle of 11 mm is drawn on the back with a sharpie pen for simplicity of measurement. The superglue is then stuck to a skin lesion-area for 30 to 50 seconds (depending on humidity, it's the longer time), and then removed and stained with Fluorescein. Then the demodex are counted at 400x or 100x. There are more detailed descriptions of this on the web.

    An MD can also check eyelashes for demodex, by twirling the eyelash and teasing demodex to the surface. More than 5 on one eyelid is considered positive. But nearly all mammals have a demedex population on their skin, because it's commensal, especially with age. There is no test for the innate immune response that some individual mammals have to demodex. Counting demodex is just a busy-work because of the lack of an effective test for an allergic reaction. That's why testing is best done by treatment, as Rory suggested. You can buy equine ivermection anywhere in the US from TSC, or better yet, get a prescription for Soolantra.

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    Default new here and by no means as well versed as you guys in the science

    hi ya - thanks for all the info here makes for a very interesting read.
    I am in the process of trying to resolve my rosacea and having started researching recently in a lot more depth. I'm learning ALOT!!!
    I personally feel ( not that I am well versed in the science like yourselves) that my issues are at the core a toxicity and inflammatory issue.
    I also suspect that probs with my skin that I always put down to hormonal are now in fact to do with dermodex lice bleurgh!
    It's interesting to me that there is a link with acetaldehyde and H. bacter and also flushing.As Alcohol has long been associated with Rosacea and it is a by product, produced in abundancece when the liver has trouble processing excess alcohol. I suspect somewhere along the line when an immune system is weakened that overproduction of certain bacteria can throw many of the body's processes out of kilt, I reckon yeast may factor in somewhere along the line too. but these are just my instincts.
    What are your thoughts on natural treatments such as apple cider vinegar etc.? also I would love to know how you annihilate these naaasty little mites in terms or ridding your very pores of these horrible creatures... killing off the entire life cycle and different stages of? any suggestions .? I know I would feel a lot better if I thought my face was mite free. any more of your stimulating info would be mucho appreciated
    thanks

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