Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 34

Thread: Worries about rlt and angiogenesis

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    218

    Default Worries about rlt and angiogenesis

    I am considering buying a red led device but i see research suggests that it promotes angiogenesis. Does anyone think this may be why some people experience flares when starting treatment.I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that after 2 weeks it switches off the angiogenesis but I can't seem to find that site anymore.
    Would it be best to wait a couple of weeks after ipl to start this treatment?Do the anti inflammatory benefits outweigh the risk of angiogenesis?
    I'm finding this all so confusing and desperately want to avoid anything that might make the redness and flushing worse. My flushing is mainly stress and heat related and I also find my face burning in bed for no apparent reason ( not menopausal)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Twickle Purple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    2,270

    Default

    Sorry this post was missed.

    Melissa recently posted something that could be useful for you to read. I am just going to copy her post here:

    http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosa...&postcount=122

    I'm not sure if this has been posted yet but I don't think there's any harm in posting it again in any case. Here is some info pertaining to LLLT and rosacea and healing.

    from
    http://rosacea-research.org/wiki/ind..._Light_Therapy


    Multi-color LEDsMany rosaceans find that treatment with all-red LED lamps provides relief from their rosacea symptoms. Studies suggest that low-level light in certain ranges, particularly the red and near-infrared range, from LED lamps and also from low-level lasers, has an anti-inflammatory effect.

    From the following article discussing the inflammatory theory of rosacea:

    Examining Inflammation as a Common Factor in Theories of Rosacea Pathophysiology

    Recent research has shown an increase of specific proinflammatory cytokines, including tumor necrosis factor (TNF-α) and interleukin (IL-1β), in biopsies of inflammatory lesions from acne patients.9 These cytokines trigger a chain of chemical responses in the body, including the release of certain matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs); specifically, MMP-1, -3, and -9.10,11 These MMPs are involved in collagen matrix degradation and inflammatory damage. The likely result is the development of papulopustular lesions. Owing to the similarities between these lesions in acne and rosacea, this evidence offers insight into the inflammatory nature of rosacea.
    Two additional inflammatory mediators thought to incite the symptoms of rosacea are reactive oxygen species (ROS) and nitric oxide (NO). Clinical trial evidence reports that patients with severe rosacea have a reduced capacity to counter the negative effects of ROS; thus, experiencing an increased inflammatory response.11,12 This may also explain the connection between photodamage and rosacea since sun exposure is known to induce the release of ROS which subsequently activates MMPs.13 The role of NO involves vascular changes and is believed to be partially responsible for the erythema, edema, and telangiectatic symptoms of rosacea.11,13 Vasodilation plausibly results in vascular instability leading to increased vessel permeability, edema, and fixed vessels. This may worsen with increased sun exposure as an increase of NO in the keratinocytes has been linked with UVB rays.



    Thus, according to the inflammatory theory of rosacea, since TNF-a (tumor necrosis factor) stimulates many of the other cytokines and enzymes involved in the inflammatory process and also in much of the tissue destruction we see with rosacea, decreasing TNF-a levels should theoretically help minimize the increased symptoms of inflammation we see with rosacea. Studies seem to support claims that low-level light therapy reduces levels of TNF-a.

    Also, according to the inflammatory theory of rosacea, since rosaceans have a reduced capacity to counter the negative effects of reactive oxygen species (ROS), increasing levels of superoxide dismutase (SOD), which is key in the process of clearing ROS, should theoretically help to prevent or even reduce some of the damaging effects ROS has on rosacea affected tissues. Studies so far indicate that low-level light therapy increases levels of SOD. (See the page on GliSODin for more information about the effects of SOD on ROS).
    and

    LED helps recovery after IPL, reduces redness
    February 13th, 2008, by Digital Davo | IPL, LED Therapy


    This paper is good news for both those undergoing IPL treatments and those interested in Light Emitting Diode (LED) therapy as a anti-redness treatment. Patients treated immediately after IPL with a LED device showed that their post-treatment redness subsided faster compared to not also being treated with LED.

    Use of light-emitting diode photomodulation to reduce erythema and discomfort after intense pulsed light treatment of photodamage, J Cosmet Dermatol. 2008 Mar;7(1):30-4., Khoury JG, Goldman MP., La Jolla SpaMD, La Jolla, CA, USA.

    Objectives: This study evaluates the use of light-emitting diode (LED) photomodulation therapy to accelerate resolution of post-intense pulsed light (IPL) erythema.

    Methods: In this split-face study, 15 subjects were randomized to receive LED treatment to one side of the face as determined by computer-generated randomization numbers. All 15 subjects received a single IPL treatment for facial photodamage. Immediately after IPL treatment, one side of the face was treated for 35 s with the LED device. The other side was not treated. Subjects returned 24 h later for a second LED treatment on the same side of the face. Post treatment erythema was rated on both sides of the face by the blinded investigator and by subjects immediately after IPL treatment, 24 h later, and 1 week later on a scale of 0% (no erythema) to 100% (severe erythema). Patients commented on post treatment discomfort immediately after IPL treatment.

    Results: Mean erythema scores on the first visit were significantly higher (P = 0.0054) on the side not treated with LED (52.7 +/- 24.6) than on the LED-treated side (43.3 +/- 21.9). Visit 2 data showed a similar trend (P = 0.0281). The subjects reported similar findings with mean erythema scores on the first visit on the LED-treated side (46.7 +/- 25.3) compared with the untreated side (60.0 +/- 23.3); the difference was significant (P = 0.0382). On the second visit, the mean erythema scores trended lower on the LED-treated side (24.3 +/- 22.1) than on the untreated side (27.9 +/- 25.:cool:, but the difference did not reach statistical significance (P = 0.1365). Erythema scores on both facial sides were 0 for all subjects 1 week after IPL treatment. Four patients commented that post treatment discomfort was considerably less on the LED-treated side immediately after treatment.

    Conclusion: LED photomodulation treatment may accelerate the resolution of erythema and reduce post treatment discomfort in IPL-treated patients with photodamage.

    Happiness is a choice.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    491

    Default

    Caran,
    From what I understand, we do not really know. So the question is are you willing to take the risk? I think for the first go around with IPL, you should stick with what your doc says or error on the side of caution. While the above two articles may indicate there could be positive benefits, they are hardly conclusive and as you said we heard arguments that suggest RLT can be bad as well. You will have to make the decision of whether you want to roll the dice. Regardless of what anyone or any article says, RLT can cause problems for some people.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Twickle Purple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    2,270

    Default

    I recommend that anyone interested in LLLT/RLT read the stickies and read the input and feedback from all the people that have used it.

    Of all the treatments discussed here on this forum this is the one that seems to have the highest response of positive outcomes. It's absolutely worth the time to do the reading!

    Cheers,
    TP

    Happiness is a choice.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    491

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twickle Purple View Post
    I recommend that anyone interested in LLLT/RLT read the stickies and read the input and feedback from all the people that have used it.

    Of all the treatments discussed here on this forum this is the one that seems to have the highest response of positive outcomes. It's absolutely worth the time to do the reading!

    Cheers,
    TP
    This is one of the better ones with a lot of positive reviews....
    http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosa...ad.php?t=10911

    Keep in mind the original question. When used in conjunction with IPL, what is the effect and is the risk worth taking? There is far less info about this and therefore your risk assessment should be based upon limited information.

  6. #6
    This user has been banned from this forum
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    51

    Default

    i think we need to find a roscaea expert with light/lasers we can email that would know the answer. since we dont know and it is too important of an issue.

    since red light does grow new blood vessels. ill try to find an expert to email yall do the smae so we can get to te bottom of this

  7. #7
    Senior Member Twickle Purple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    2,270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mills View Post
    i think we need to find a roscaea expert with light/lasers we can email that would know the answer. since we dont know and it is too important of an issue.

    since red light does grow new blood vessels. ill try to find an expert to email yall do the smae so we can get to te bottom of this
    LOL! It's dejavu all over again!

    Please let us know what your expert says, who they are, and by what criteria they are an expert in this area.

    I wonder though, do you think you can find someone with more qualifications than this guy?

    David Goldberg, M.D is:
    • Director of Skin Laser & Surgery Specialists of New York and New Jersey
    • Clinical professor of dermatology, and
    • Director of laser research at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York
    And from Dr. Goldberg we learned that:

    …laser and laser light [sic] technology are highly effective in the treatment of rosacea-induced redness and flushing…

    Dr. Goldberg typically offers light sources, such as intense pulsed light (IPL) and light-emitting diode (LED) devices, to optimize [treatment] outcome…

    …LED and IPL both lessen redness, so they work in synergy. We will often combine the yellow LED with red LED, the latter of which works well on the inflammation of the condition.

    The LED devices do not cause pain and are not thermal, in contrast to laser technologies…

    …the use of LED treatments for rosacea is an option for all patients.

    --

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it would be pretty much impossible to find someone with better combined qualifications to voice an opinion on the subject of LED and rosacea. And, that if this fellow uses Red Light Therapy on Rosacea I feel pretty sure it's not to make someone condition worse. Go figure.

    Happiness is a choice.

  8. #8
    Moderator Melissa W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    new york
    Posts
    10,135

    Default

    And let's not forget Dr. Tony Chu MD at Hammersmith hospital who wrote that RLT definitely improved Peter's rosacea!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Twickle Purple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    2,270

    Default

    Yes, of course. Dr. Chu is the fellow who published the studies on Blue light for acne.

    Happiness is a choice.

  10. #10
    Moderator phlika29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Dorset, UK
    Posts
    8,371

    Default

    Dr Chu will also be carrying out a RLT trial at Hammersmith Hospital hopefully later on this year.

Similar Threads

  1. Sigh v-beam worries again
    By jenbenn in forum Intense pulsed light and laser
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 9th March 2012, 04:04 AM
  2. No arms no legs no worries
    By WrinkledClue in forum Diet, lifestyle and relationships
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 21st May 2010, 04:45 PM
  3. Worries about rlt and angiogenesis
    By caran in forum Low level light based therapies
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12th November 2007, 10:35 PM
  4. about angiogenesis
    By natalja in forum General rosacea questions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 23rd December 2005, 03:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •