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Thread: My experiences with the infamous ZZ cream so far

  1. #81
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    Day 8: my skin started to peel off on my right cheek,that's where the demodex forms red lines under my skin. My skin feels tight and dry, but it's not important to me as long as I don't get any p&ps (yet). My eyes are much better thanks to the tto and the artificial tears.

  2. #82
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    Maria that's good news. When I skip nights with TTO, I notice a difference for sure. Keep it up

  3. #83
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    Thank you for the heads up!

  4. #84
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    Day 10: even more dryness, but I didn't like my skin's texture anyway, so let it peel off. Eyes are ok.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    I used to use ZZ cream all over my face and found it really helpful. Then the formula changed, so that it no longer left a dewy finish. The new formula was difficult to apply and dried like powder, breaking up and peeling off when dry. It was horrible.
    I emailed the company and was initially told there was no change, but after a few others complained, an admission was made, but the given reason was silly.
    I have not purchased any since. I'm still using the bad stuff on my nose and above my upper lip, but I mix it with a topical gel I have, which makes it usable, durable and indepensible.

    Could you please describe the texture of the ZZ cream you are currently using?
    Does it apply easily, allowing more application of product in one area if desired?
    Does it leave a dewy, moist, flexible finish? Or does it dry like powder/poster paint?

    I found the old ZZ cream/ointment really helped reduce my flushing. This is probably attributable to several reasons. It likely reduced demodex populations, if indeed I had a problem with them, plus the constantly dry skin acted like a brace and prevented the constant, superficial flushing. After many months, this seemed to down regulate my flushing permanently. The dry skin also acts like a barrier to the environment.

    In addition to using ZZ, I treated my gut dysfunction at the same time. If you have already failed ivermectin, it is likely that some of your outbreaks at least are caused by abnormal gut flora.

    I am not cured, but the above regime, along with on going dietary, lifestyle, supplemental and topical (4% niacinamide gel) have significantly improved my condition.
    I rely heavily on the gel as it too, acts like a brace. (When it is made to my liking).

    It is important only to apply a tiny amount of ZZ, as you no doubt already know.
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

  6. #86
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    Thank you for your advice, Mistica! I read somewhere that they changed the formula, but someone on this forum said that he recently reordered it and his breakouts went away within a week, so I assumed that it could be of some help. I am afraid that my formula is the powdery one, drying and difficult to apply.As much as I want to apply only a tiny amount, I can't succeed. I don't really mind the dryness,because I hope that it will subside when the demodex is gone, but there is a stubborn red itchy area on my right cheek, some red underskin lines, scabies-like actually, which became worse at first and now they have returned to their previous condition and I can't see how this ZZ cream is going to treat them, unless it is penetrating the skin enough.
    I have outbreaks only after eating sugar. I tried to take probiotics,but my gut was irritated by them, I was in pain after each capsule, so I abandoned the effort. How did you heal your gut?
    I think that ivermectin, both oral and topical, failed because my demodex is resistant to it.
    I really think that the ZZ cream is disturbing the mites somehow, because since using it, my blefaritis became much worse and only tto keeps it under control. Unfortunately,I don't know if this cream is capable of killing them.
    Did you have blefaritis? Did you ever try the NuStock-zinc oxide-tto mix?

  7. #87
    Senior Member Mistica's Avatar
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    I have outbreaks only after eating sugar. I tried to take probiotics,but my gut was irritated by them, I was in pain after each capsule, so I abandoned the effort. How did you heal your gut?
    This suggests you do have gut involvement.

    This will be a long post.

    Lots of people say they have outbreaks after eating sugar, or they flush after eating sugar, but 'sugar' is very non specific.
    Perhaps you could clarify?
    I can't imagine that you never eat a spoonful of Dextrose (pure glucose), or even a spoonful of table sugar (Glucose and Fructose). Of course, there are other sugars too.

    So, when you eat 'sugar' and you suffer outbreaks, can I assume you are speaking about eating a biscuit/cookie? A piece of cake? Perhaps even bread, cereal, pasta, rice etc?

    SIBO, is usually, although not always located further down the small intestinal tract, so eating a quickly and easily absorbed 'sugar', such as dextrose (glucose) or even table sugar, is unlikely to cause a reaction. This is because it is absorbed long before it reaches the problematic overgrowth in the small intestine.

    There are cases, however, where the overgrowth is much further up and problems can arise with all sugars.

    Starch is a bigger issue for most people because it is a complex chain of sugars and therefore doesn't get absorbed quickly. It can pass through to the large bowel where it feeds good and bad bacteria. I often read that facial inflammation occurs later in the day, or even the next day and I have to wonder if this is because the bad flora has finally started to utilise the starch.

    SIBO can be made up of an overgrowth of this flora, so once the starch reaches this area, the cycle is triggered sooner.

    So, perhaps you can run a few experiments and see if you can determine which type of sugar/s is the offender?

    Let's not forget too, that baked goods also contain other triggers, such as PUFA's.

    Some people react badly to all fats, including the saturated, which do have beneficial qualities for most people despite the evil agenda attributed to them.

    I am not completely cured of gut issues, but I no longer get outbreaks of P&P. I am a flusher and during the years where it raged, I suffered lots of vascular damage. I believe this collateral damage is self perpetuating. The infrastructure remains, like bad house plumbing. Although I am much better than I was. I certainly look a lot better too.

    That aside, I did undergo a long course of Rifaximin and Oral Vancomycin. As far as I am aware, I am the only member of this forum to take the latter drug and I wouldn't recommend it unless you truly need it.
    I had a severe, adverse reaction to oral metronizadole, and negative reactions are quite common, so I would avoid that drug completely.
    Rifaximin eliminated my outbreaks in a few days and I believe this quick improvement is common. Of course you then have to find a way to maintain the clearance.

    Diets:

    Diets for SIBO are designed to starve out the offensive bacteria which live in the wrong areas and bring about a balance in areas of the digestive tract where you want them. Easier said than done.

    A common diet is GAPS, and the introductory diet which consists mostly of home made broth, well cooked vege and healthy fat, is pretty standard and helpful. However, long term, it can create more issues, particularly by producing more food intolerances. The reason for this could be due to the long term restriction of starch. Some starch is necessary to feed the good flora in the large bowel. This is where, supposedly the 'tregs' are formed. These modulate the immune system and reduce autoimmunity etc. Adverse reactions.
    GAPS also includes lots of nuts breads etc, later in the diet which certainly didn't suit me.

    Another option is 'The Fast Tract Diet'.
    This works on a basis of 'fermentation potential'. This means you use a calculator to determine how likely the food you eat will ferment and you mustn't go above a certain figure each day.
    The idea is there is enough food for the body, with little to no excess for troublesome bacteria in the gut.
    There are lots of good reviews for both diets, and unless someone has really severe gut issues, I tend to think 'Fast Tract' could be more beneficial long term. It is certainly easier as food choices aren't so restricted.

    http://digestivehealthinstitute.org/fast-tract-diet/
    http://digestivehealthinstitute.org/fp-calculator/

    To answer your other questions. I don't have blepharitis and have never used Nu-Stock.
    I did test TTO and reacted badly to it. I react badly to most oils, topically and orally.
    Which reminds me, Fish oil, in particular and even Flaxseed oil are common triggers.



    Both doctors/authors state that in some cases, antibiotics are necessary initially. So, if you haven't yet tried Rifaximin and can get your doctor to prescribe it, it might be worth your while.

    Another useful tool is 'Intermittent Fasting'. This means you eat within an 8 hour window and fast for 16 hours. This allows the body/cells to undergo 'autophagy which means it cleans out debris from cells and improves mitochondrial function. It is a phase where it undertakes repair. In addition, the gut gets the chance to do a bit of therapeutic action as well.
    Also, I have seen studies which suggest that this kind of fasting increases levels of certain beneficial bacteria. Of course gut flora testing is only just evolving really.

    Personally, I have found Intermittent fasting difficult as it causes significant night time flushing.
    However, I have hashimoto's, which plays a role.
    Prof Jaminet (you can google him), has told me, and others that fasting is much easier and doable, if sufficient carbs are consumed during the 8 hour window. I have to add dextrose to my food to achieve this as too much starch continues to be a real issue for me. I also do well on Raw Goat's Milk.

    You may have some nutritional deficiencies, or even insufficiencies, which would need addressing.
    Previous Numerous IPL.
    Supplements: Niacinamide, Vit K2, low D3, Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Very low dose B's. Low dose zinc (to correct deficiency).
    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA.

    Treating for gut dysbiosis under specialist care. (This is helping).
    Previous GAPS diet. Testing tolerance of resistant starch.
    Fermented Foods. 2 to 3 days per week, Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.

  8. #88
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    Wow, Mistica, thank you for such a detailed post. I had never thought much of the different kinds of sugar involved in my rosacea. Food that cause me not easily healing pustules is chocolates, cakes, pastry, fruit, wine. Food that make me temporarily slightly more red is bread, rice, tomatoes. The only sweet thing that doesn't have any bad impact on my skin (if eaten in small amounts in the morning) is the honey. Pasta doesn't bother me at all. I have already taken both oral metronidazole and rifaximine, with no positive effect at all. I never had any intestinal problems in the past, but since taking all these antibiotics, my gut is more "sensitive". I can't tolerate the probiotics and iron (I have low iron levels in my blood).

    Day 16: my skin is still dry and I must have had put the ZZ cream too close to my eyes, because they feel horribly dry too. I feel that my eyes will give me some hard time during this process.

  9. #89
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    Day 24: my skin is significantly less dry the last few days, doesn't burn, the problematic area on my right cheek is less red. I haven't experienced any serious die off till now, only some occasional red bumps here and there. My eyes feel somewhat better too.

  10. #90
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    Day 35: I found out that my skin is not so dry when I omit washing my face in the evening before applying the ZZ cream. Last week I had a die-off after my eye doctor applied her tto on my eyelids. Absurd as it sounds, I don't like the fact that the ZZ cream alone hasn't caused any major die off till now. It's great against common acne,though, it kills Propionibacterium acnes right away. My forehead has cleared almost completely. It just doesn't seem to be that effective against the demodex rash on my right cheek.

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