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Thread: Peter Waters - The Truth

  1. #1
    Senior Member Peter's Avatar
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    Default Peter Waters - The Truth

    Hello

    Sorry this is long but I wanted to put something up as a reply to recent comments and accusations made about me by Nase on an update on his website called "New Forum needed to ensure accurate information". I hope you have the time to read this and the Nase quotes are in bold italic.

    "There is a lot of confusion regarding my position with Dr. Darm. This is mainly due to second hand contorted information propagated by Peter Waters and Twinkie Purple (detailed below). They purposefully take isolated segments from a site that is based on a non-existent court case"

    Assuming he is referring to the DB site then he has provided most of the material on there directly himself. Can’t see any confusion about his position with Dr Darm as it looked a clear case of making money out of innocent rosacea sufferers. He probably has or has had in the past similar contracts with other professionals or companies. The court case(s) were real.

    "Warren's Rosacea Group has several Red Light Therapy Salesman who make commision off of referrals and "home made devices". This is a fact that is denied vehemently by several people. The main salesman, Peter Waters has been involved for almost 3 years. Fact."

    Several Red Light Therapy Salesmen? Apart from accusing me then who are the others? Where does the commission from home made devices come from? Thinking about it the manufacturers would probably pay you money NOT to show people for free (As David does) how to build cheaply LED units.

    FACT - I have used RLT since 1998 but never been involved in selling any device. Where is his proof? Of course I have given details of my lamp to people and contact details if they want to try it – who wouldn’t when trying to help others. See letter from Adrian Warburton in the thread: http://forum.rosaceagroup.org/viewtopic.php?t=4166

    "He never had Rosacea. Fact. Feel free to check out his photos on the RS group and his description. He details this."

    FACT - I have rosacea. Again where is his proof otherwise? I have suffered from this condition for 20 years now but it was only diagnosed in 1997 by Dr Shahrad at Harpenden Bupa Hospital. Confirmed by Dr Tony Chu when I saw him for treatment in July 1998 at Hammersmith Hospital, London. Rosacea obviously runs in our family on my Mother’s side we believe as my Sister suffers from it and also one of my cousins.

    My pictures on the RSG profile were put up as part of a picture sharing idea so people could put faces to names, not necessarily showing how severe their condition was although some had the courage to do this. If you look at them on http://rosacea.ii.net/profiles.html You will clearly see the narrative I put by each picture.

    "Our discussions during sane times also suggested his skin condition was mostly acne. Period. He was NEVER diagnosed with Rosacea as per his own admission."

    Has there ever been a sane time with Nase? We swapped a few e mails on red light a few years ago and he said he didn’t know much about it other than the lamps were designed for acne. I still have the mails. Basically he wasn’t interested despite me giving him all the information on it. When did I admit I was NEVER diagnosed with rosacea? News to me and yet another lie by him.

    "But, where else is he going to sell a red light device. He cant sell the blue light as the market is already saturated for acne, but rosacea and red light therapy is open game to someone who never even had clinical rosacea."

    As already stated I am not involved in selling anything. He is just making it all up as usual with no proof to back his claims. I HAVE CLINICAL ROSACEA as diagnosed by the professional dermatologist's mentioned above.

    "I called 8 out of about 30 red light Internet sales sites. 8 out of 8 were accepting people to sell these systems for 10% to 15% commision."

    Are there 30 red light Internet sales sites? You could also call 8 tyre companies or 8 of any other retail outlets and probably negotiate some form of commission if they were interested in you pushing their products. So what?

    "Fact. Red light therapy is not approved for use on rosacea sufferers and DOES have the ability to burn skin (as Dr. Crouch found out when he had to treat two red light therapy burn patients who came to me first). For each person that has tried Red Light Therapy or LED Therapy and states, "It might be helping some" ................................. there are double the number who have returned the machines due to increased flushing, burning sensations and first degree burns (no blisters) and second degree burns (with blisters) with the higher energy LED systems now available and the homemade versions. You cannot change the quantity of light bulbs or LEDs without increasing the thermal energy."

    TRUE - RLT is not currently medically approved for treating rosacea but there will be a clinical trial soon to investigate by a real PROFESSIONAL.

    FALSE – LED does not have the ability to burn skin assuming the apparatus is used properly. What did Dr Crouch really find out? The notorious burn victims came to Nase first or Crouch first? Conflicting stories now which prove Nase made the whole story up.

    Rubbish - it works and he can’t handle this fact. Typical Nase mumbo jumbo to give the impression he knows what he is talking about. Of course there is theory and practice although Nase theory is usually in language derived from another planet. Despite his claims we have never seen any evidence, reports or validated information that RLT harms the rosacea skin and that why he has to make the stories up. If the evidence was there it would have been thrown in our faces back in January when he posted his claims. Does he think we are all stupid?

    Anyway how many people use RLT to treat rosacea? Well currently not that many although more are now giving it a go since they have realised his claims are false. When you read his various reports he tries to convey the story that hundreds of people are trying RLT, hundreds are getting badly burnt and hundreds are returning red light units whilst in the process I am becoming a millionaire from selling lamps. Total utter nonsense.

    "Two of the biggest proponents of red light therapy (and I will just use their user names), IowaDavid and Banshee, have been using these systems for quite some time. We actually asked them to be on the Rosacea Research foundation and they both replied, "That they would love to, but were nearly disabled by rosacea and could not help". Direct quotes from emails to the entire Board of Directors. Obviously Red Light Therapy was not the answer and the multiple topical and oral prescriptions they are both taking confound any effect they say they might have."

    FALSE – Banshee has once again been forced to put the record straight after Nase has again written falsely about her. David has also refuted Nases claims? Both Kristen (Banshee) and David have benefited from using RLT in their treatment regime as I did also. David has written a couple of articles about the subject and his results are very impressive.

    "To the handful of people detailed above -- thank you for reinforcing my point about the lack of moderation on these boards, the repeated attempts for deceitful information and the need for accuracy on Support Boards. It also demonstrates why rosacea information and news has come to a standstill in many cases."

    The only deceitful information I have and still see concerning rosacea comes from his actions past and present including his current website. I am sure it will all bear fruition once again to be used against him. Some people never learn.

    Despite what he thinks rosacea information and news is still coming in and at least we know from our sources that it is reliable. What some people cannot yet grasp though is the amount of damage this man has done for many years within the rosacea society by his arrogance, selfishness, bullying and the desire through whatever means to become the number one, the supremo, the main man, the poster boy of the rosacea world. All I can say is that it is a bloody good job that some people have had the courage to stand up to him and prevent this from happening. A line on a post on the Forum I saw recently by Sweden summed up what Nase has achieved perfectly. "How many physicians has the guy scared off who could have been contributing to the rosacea community? Face it, the guy has done a lot of harm no doubt about it. His breakthrough treatments never end up being anything..how could you have missed that extremely valid point?"

    Ok I'm done. Thanks for listening and good luck in the future.

    Peter

  2. #2
    Senior Member IowaDavid's Avatar
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    Nase apparently wants to take shots at people with constructions bred from his own fantasies and delusions.

    He may have a very deep knowledge of rosacea, but, his mind has been corrupted. He's akin to a rosacea Darth Vader: Deep Knowledge, but perverse interpretations and irrational modes for helping people.

    I REALLY don't appreciate a "doctor and rosacea specialist" lying about our correspondance. That's just pathetic.

    Nase--if you were so dedicated to disseminating factual information about rosacea, you wouldn't be doing what you're doing. Fact.
    35 year-old male
    Erythmatotelangiectatic rosacea & Ocular
    20 + laser treatments.
    Toleraine Soothing Light Facial Fluid for moisturizer. I don't use a special cleanser. Clonidine daily; klonopin sometimes.
    BEST and CURRENT TREATMENT I use: Low-Level Red Light Therapy LED array.
    Please feel free to PM me with your low-level red light therapy (LLRLT) questions. I'm happy to help if I can.

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    Hi Peter

    I totally understand you wanting to document your response to this.

    Just wanted to say that as relatively new person to this forum I find a lot of Dr Nase's posts very odd even without your side of the story.

    Some of the posts on his site, not just about LED but also others, just seem so out of place to me on a professional website. Fair enough if he feels he needs to warn people, if he genuinally believes what he is saying, but it frequently slides into personal attacks.

    I'm not saying he hasn't done things for rosacea or doesn't know a lot because, i don't feel i'm in a position to judge that. Thought for me personally, i can't say that his website inspires any great degree of confiendence.
    ______________
    29, Flushing.
    Tried: Propranolol, Clonidine, Dorxy, Finacea, IPL, Betablockers, NSAIDs.
    Now: Avanza, V-beam, H1, H2, Rosex, Singulair, Friendly food diet.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Peter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froggirl
    Hi Peter

    I totally understand you wanting to document your response to this.

    Just wanted to say that as relatively new person to this forum I find a lot of Dr Nase's posts very odd even without your side of the story.

    Some of the posts on his site, not just about LED but also others, just seem so out of place to me on a professional website. Fair enough if he feels he needs to warn people, if he genuinally believes what he is saying, but it frequently slides into personal attacks.

    I'm not saying he hasn't done things for rosacea or doesn't know a lot because, i don't feel i'm in a position to judge that. Thought for me personally, i can't say that his website inspires any great degree of confiendence.
    Hello Froggirl

    Appreciate your reply and you make some very valid points.

    I think I would use a stronger word than "odd" but I know exactly where you are coming from. People seeing my post will think "Here he goes again" but Nase went over the top this time by stating that I didn't have rosacea whilst at the same time still banging on about me and others selling lamps plus RLT damaging rosacea sufferers, so it was time to put the record straight yet again. It is not about trying to settle a personal vendetta with Nase but a case of reminding the members on here again that this guy through his continual lie telling is still having a disruptive influence within the rosacea society.

    That will change shortly because at least we know a book is being written about his madness and I hopefully everybody can then understand what really happened and it can remain a permanent reminder of why this type of situation must never be allowed to occur again. As you say his website isn't very inspiring wherever you look within it so perhaps we should just ignore it and him, so that we can move forward and concentrate on what this Forum is really about.

    Best wishes

    Peter

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    The is going to be a book about Dr Nase?

    What, and the DB business?

    Wow. Im sure that will make a fascinating tale. Any more info you can share with us?

    I assume from your post that this is something being done outside of Geoffrey's knowledge?

    Well, either way, put me down for a copy. I want to see if 'Bob Bear' gets a cameo

    BB

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    Senior Member Peter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Bear
    The is going to be a book about Dr Nase?

    What, and the DB business?

    Wow. Im sure that will make a fascinating tale. Any more info you can share with us?

    I assume from your post that this is something being done outside of Geoffrey's knowledge?

    Well, either way, put me down for a copy. I want to see if 'Bob Bear' gets a cameo

    BB
    Hello Bob

    Well I heard from a reliable source that it will happen. After Steve95301 spotted the obvious connection with Cyber Munchausen's http://forum.rosaceagroup.org/viewto...r=asc&start=45

    I thought it would be prudent if I released the information I had received from a few weeks back. I don't know who the author is or the exact content but rather than a shortage of material I think they could have too much to wade through with this story. Suppose that's the power of the internet because we have a complete, easily accessible record of every written word, so any inconsistencies stand out like a sore thumb.

    Fascinating tale? Well I suppose it depends how you view this because it could also be considered a sad and often frightening tale especially taking into account the damage inflicted both in time, genuine rosacea research and human emotions. As I said before everybody must learn from this so that it can never be allowed to happen again, especially on a support group similar to this one and the others we have been involved in. I think it highly unlikely that the author will contact Nase for advice or tips but one thing is for sure Nase should finish up being famous but not for the reasons he initially set out to achieve. Suppose the saying is "If you live by the sword then you die by the sword".

    Sure I'll put you on the list with my two copies. Careful who you tell though otherwise I will be accused next of taking commission on selling medical books Cameo role? You had better start queuing my good friend LOL

    Personally I have put the record straight on his accusations and I reckon it's time to move on now as I feel I am becoming boring and repetitive (sigh of relief all round). I have lived a dream with RLT for rosacea every since I discovered it's positive effect on my skin in 1998. I still get a fantastic buzz when I read a post from someone who reports that it has also helped them and I just hope and pray that the Hammersmith Trial (when it happens) will develop RLT so that it becomes a cheap and recognised rosacea treatment from which many will gain benefit.

    Cheers

    Peter

  7. #7
    Senior Member Peter's Avatar
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    Hello

    Ok I think this thread has served it's purpose and it should now be locked.

    Since it was started Peter Crouch has now posted on:

    http://forum.rosaceagroup.org/viewto...?p=29236#29236

    to put the record straight on his input in the RLT controversy. I would suggest this thread is also locked so we can all move forward now. The posts should remain though as a record of what happened.

    Thanks

    Peter

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