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Thread: RLT - The Actual Facts - Nase Story versus Crouch Story

  1. #11
    Senior Member Twickle Purple's Avatar
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    Hi phlika29,

    I think that the Gemini has offered the most profound changes no doubt about it. My face was covered with pronounced telangiectasia, the first treatment of Gemini reduced them by about 1/3 and I believe that this second application will have the same results. My 3rd treatment will be with a 5mm head to 'zap' the stubborn remainders with depth and precision. The first 2 treatmenta were done using a 10mm because of the expansive coverage required.

    What the RLT works on is different. It controls the cause of my telangiectasia: the flushing and the blushing. I have such an over reactive face now that I've been in pretty much a permanent flush since 1-1/2 years ago. I was on doxepin for a few years and it stopped working, I tried clonipen, prednisone, a whole roster of antihistamines and nothing made a dent. The Doxycycline has given me an enormous relief for my irritated eyes and I can't say enough good things about that MetroCream. I apply it at night and after the first week I was getting a tingling numbness to my lips and a cool tingling all over my face. Within the month my face would go pale after each application, and I realized the anti-inflammatory effects. It didn't last more than a couple of hours but it brought much needed relief to the facial tissue. So the Doxycycline (for the eyes and minor P+P) and MetroCream (for the facial tissue) are also part of my improvement.

    Sorry this is so long! I want to make sure that it's all properly represented. Anyway, back to the RLT. When I am done my treatment my facial skin feels cool to the touch. And then for the next 24 hours it's like a soft, moist, dewy cloud bubble surrounds it. I don't know how better to describe it! It is such a nice feeling. I am noticeably paler and the effects are cumulative -- the more sessions I have the more my skin tone becomes different. My redness is different and more confined to the heavy telangiectasia areas and it just feels so darn good. I can't wait til there is some study for Rosacea and RLT, there is obviously so much more going on than what is commonly understood with RLT. The effect on my inflamed tissue is calming, healing and it is reversing the effects of the rosacea ... my skin is looking younger and more resilient. Some days I get a glimpse of a healthy vibrancy and glow I havenít seen in years. My nose is getting its definition back and the pores on my nose and across my cheeks are getting small again (I could just about sing that one it makes me so happy!). My whole body is getting the effects too. I am losing an overall swelling which I wasnít even aware I had. My watch is much looser, my rings have more movement and my boots around my calves and ankles have more space. Itís working on something, and I like it.

    I am so grateful that this was available for me. I had read enough from everywhere I possibly could to be certain this was worth investing in and taking a risk on. It requires a commitment, finding those 10-20 minutes everyday is important. Maybe after a few months I can have days without it and over time more gaps of time in between, as Peter has experienced, but I think this is improvement will always require some maintenance. I have sub type 1 rosacea so I canít say it will help any other sub types. But itís doing more and better than I thought and certainly beyond what is understood about it currently.

    I wish you all the best with this Phlika29!
    Twickle Purple

    Happiness is a choice.

  2. #12
    Senior Member bentherebefore's Avatar
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    So what does the RLT treat specifically...

    underlying redness?
    surface vessels?
    acne?

    I'm confused as to what specific effect it is having. I keep hearing, "yeah, it makes my skin softer" and "I think it's helping" but specifics would be nice. Are doctors recommending the use of this? If not, why not?

    thanks folks
    Subtype-1: Cheek and ear flushing
    Currently: IPL

  3. #13
    Senior Member Twickle Purple's Avatar
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    Reduced redness, reduced flushing, reduced heat, reduced pore size, improved skin texture and better skin tone. That about sums up the benefits I'm experiencing. As for the doctors, there is a link to a PDF that Froggirl has addeed this morning. Her thread is here:

    http://forum.rosaceagroup.org/viewto...168&highlight=

    Page 16 and 17 of the PDF have a pro and a con opinion. The pro fellow is describing the effects that I am experiencing and have described above. The con fellow says "LEDs are clinically bogus until proven otherwise." That's weird logic.

    Happiness is a choice.

  4. #14
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    So to get back on topic for a moment...

    Im not sure how to interpret this information?

    Does this evidence suggest that both are lying, or that one is?

    As you know, I usually stay well clear of these debates, but Im interested to know just what the charges are here. There is clearly a discrepancy, but Im not sure just what this means?

    BB

  5. #15
    Senior Member Twickle Purple's Avatar
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    Yes, sorry to veer off topic. I guess I was demonstrating that their claims against the RLT are meritless.

    With respect to what Peter has shared/shown above, what I get from this is that there appears to have been a private consensus between the two gentlemen and what they are doing appears to be with an agenda. What it is I do not know. It is just too incredible and too inconsistent. If these events actually occured we would have heard about it beyond these posts. The Internet is pretty invaluable that way.

    Happiness is a choice.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Peter's Avatar
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    Hello BB and TP

    Well I put my message up because it is so obvious now what really happened back in January after Nase slipped up this week by stating the mystery burn victims came to him first. Of course he is in Indiana USA and they are in South West England but yep they will contact him first because he is so famous. Did they e mail him at the same time, telephone or send smoke signals to the States from their terrible burns. I mean this is so pathetic but equally very serious and I need to take advice on the implications of all of this, given that I have some very senior contacts in the medical world here in the UK. To invent a story so that RLT could appear a dangerous option to rosacea suffers is a disgrace and I hold Nase totally responsible for this. Nothing but lies but never any evidence to back up the claims and accusations.

    He went to all of this trouble not because he had any proof that RLT was dangerous but because he had a grudge against me. Yes because I caught him telling lies yet again last year about his qualifications and false promises thus overnight RLT suddenly was a danger because Nase said so. Then we had the follow up boot in the face by telling the world that both myself and David Christian were red light salesman and making large amounts of commission. Again not one scrap of evidence to support his accusations but of course as we know Nase doesn't need evidence because everybody has to believe him. Well this view is going to have to change now I reckon because most people are now realising what has been going on and they don't like it.

    Thanks

    Peter

  7. #17
    Senior Member bentherebefore's Avatar
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    Honestly, Peter, I'm not convinced either you or Nase are salesman for anything.

    But, aren't you open to the possibility that patients can get burned by LED lamps? I don't know why Dr. Nase is so against these products, and I can't think of any good reasons why. He is usually so informative/excited (too much sometimes) that is makes me wonder why he would so blatantly not be interested in it.

    All this is utterly confusing. I still plan on participating in Nase's forum, assuming it will be free. And I also will look into LEDs as a potential treatment. I'm actaully very intrigued by the idea.
    Subtype-1: Cheek and ear flushing
    Currently: IPL

  8. #18
    Senior Member Twickle Purple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter
    Hello BB and TP

    Well I put my message up because it is so obvious now what really happened back in January after Nase slipped up this week by stating the mystery burn victims came to him first. Of course he is in Indiana USA and they are in South West England but yep they will contact him first because he is so famous. Did they e mail him at the same time, telephone or send smoke signals to the States from their terrible burns. I mean this is so pathetic but equally very serious and I need to take advice on the implications of all of this, given that I have some very senior contacts in the medical world here in the UK. To invent a story so that RLT could appear a dangerous option to rosacea suffers is a disgrace and I hold Nase totally responsible for this. Nothing but lies but never any evidence to back up the claims and accusations.

    He went to all of this trouble not because he had any proof that RLT was dangerous but because he had a grudge against me. Yes because I caught him telling lies yet again last year about his qualifications and false promises thus overnight RLT suddenly was a danger because Nase said so. Then we had the follow up boot in the face by telling the world that both myself and David Christian were red light salesman and making large amounts of commission. Again not one scrap of evidence to support his accusations but of course as we know Nase doesn't need evidence because everybody has to believe him. Well this view is going to have to change now I reckon because most people are now realising what has been going on and they don't like it.

    Thanks

    Peter
    Peter, what you have been subjected to is unconscionable. And, then to try to besmirch your character more by insinuating that you were a representative of a company that sells RLT is as low as they come. He is accusing you of something that he himself is guilty of! Must be where he got the idea.

    You have put into words what I thought when I read your first post on this thread. How is it that they (in his most recent version of events) contact him -- in the USA -- when Crouch is in the UK!? He's just too ridiculous to be believed.

    bentherebefore, I am not open to the possibility that anyone was burned by LEDs. Take a look at the picture posted above, my husband has almost 2300 LEDs going full strength, 1 inch from his face! And take a look at my threads where I have shown the RLT models that I've purchased. Take a look at my posts showing my face, I use this everyday (I missed two) and I have very fragile skin due to years of steroid overuse. I have used this while taking photosensitizing anti-biotics and have had nothing but astounding results. The LEDs are cool to the touch after 20 minutes. No heat comes off the LEDs. Period. If there were burns, which I absolutely doubt, then they were caused by something else. LEDs do not burn. If what I have said, and shown, still leaves you with any doubts please search the Internet to see if you can come across ONE case of burns. It's just not true. Simple as that. The man had a vendetta against Peter and wanted to discredit him in retaliation for being exposed for the fraud he is.

    Sorry if I got ranty there.

    Peter, you're the hero of the piece.

    Twickle Purple

    Happiness is a choice.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Peter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentherebefore
    Honestly, Peter, I'm not convinced either you or Nase are salesman for anything.

    But, aren't you open to the possibility that patients can get burned by LED lamps? I don't know why Dr. Nase is so against these products, and I can't think of any good reasons why. He is usually so informative/excited (too much sometimes) that is makes me wonder why he would so blatantly not be interested in it.

    All this is utterly confusing. I still plan on participating in Nase's forum, assuming it will be free. And I also will look into LEDs as a potential treatment. I'm actaully very intrigued by the idea.
    Hello Bentherebefore

    I can assure you that I do not sell anything to do with rosacea or anything else in this life. My career is the security printing industry and any spare time I have at the moment seems to be taken up on here and that will have to stop soon. Once again I will publish an e mail I obtained from Adrian Warburton from Dermalux after Nase accused me (without evidence again of course) of being paid commission from this company. Following this for the first time I have put on the complete e mail (I have quoted extracts from this previously) that Nase sent me back in January shortly before he was banned. You make up your own mind who the lunatic is but I can assure you it isn't me.

    I am not aware of anybody being burnt by LED lamps. Don't you think we would have been proudly been shown evidence of all these victims back in January who Nase claimed to have letters from? As a poster named duarfasiesan wrote in January on the famous thread.

    "I think you have to be a complete idiot to get a 1st degree burn from LEDs. Its like getting a paper cut from a balloon".

    I really do not understand why you or anybody else should be confused as it is so obvious what has and still is going on. It's all there in black and white so what else can I do? Look at the link I provided in my opening post on this thread and go into the debunking site also. Take time to read through all the information and then make your own decision based on the facts displayed. If you still want to join his Forum or listen to his words of wisdom then good luck to you. Please don't write to me in a few months time and say "Sorry I never realised" and then let me say "Well I did warn you".

    Thanks

    Peter
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Peter

    What a tirade! most unscientific and not helping the situation at all - why is he so vindictive?

    I cannot recall any unit that has been returned from a Rosacea sufferer either a tubed or LED version.

    I can also state that as a Company we have never asked you to promote our products or that you have ever received any payment for same. We have tried to help people who have contacted us with the best of our knowledge and experience. We always point out that there has never been a Clinical trial done with regards to Rosacea although, I seem to recall that Tony Chu is about to start a trial with redlight (it might be worth having a word with him)

    The problem with the argument about Rosacea is that the cause has not been defined with absolute certainty.

    Simplisticly it it appears to be an exaggeration of a natural condition that occurrs normally as the result of embarassement which dialates the capilliaries in the surface of the skin to cause a blush

    I know that some researchers think that its cause could be p.Acnes manifesting itself in a different way

    As you know we have never pushed the DermaLux as a treatment for Rosacea but lots of people suffering from the condition seem to be getting benefit by using all red versions. The Red LED unit was developed as a wound healing unit for recalcitrant leg ulcers. We have only sold a relatively few all Red LED units for Rosacea to people who wanted to try them and they seem to be doing OK. They will certainly tell you that the quality of their skin has improved which may be a cause of the improvement in the Rosacea but untill we have a controlled Clinical trial on any system of treatment we can only go on peoples experiences.

    The understanding of light Therapy is growing fast but it is all relative. I once spoke to a Nobel Prize winning Proffesor of Medicine who told me that the sum total of the knowledge of the functioning of the human body is 15% and most of that is mechanics and plumbing so we have a long way to go with the biochemistry. That is the reason that some treatments in all facets of Medicine work for some cases and not for others. So the only advice given must be if it works for you use it if does not don't

    regards

    Adrian Warburton
    Director DermaLux

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Peter,

    Over the last 7 months I have been emailed by several dozen females and a couple dozen maies who say that you are a ranting lunatic. They continue to act like your friend because they trust me and want more information to mount up a public site about your conspiracy therories. These are many of who you would consider your "very closest friends". They have been forwarding me emails where you have been asking to join him to attack me publicly together. I have kept all the emails and have 62 pages of your ranting lunacy and that is exactly the way it looks. Its straight from the horses mouth. The funniest ones recently are the Lyrica ones on which I have actual publications and clinical work to debunk all your efforts and to show that your detective work is dead wrong and you are just one vindictive piece of work. I also have saved up over 100 emails now where rosacea sufferers have been hurt by your LED systems and have returned alll there systems to Dermalux and other corporations that you get commission from.

    I have just popped over the 7,000 mark for my new forum which you think only has 150. Mike and I are speaking again and I showed him the real stats. Boy will you be surprised. BTW, I dont even have to open up a forum because my Rosacea Consulting Specialist LLC is amazing. I have at least 4 cases a day now at a Medical PhD pay scale level. But, I am working hard on the new forum.

    I also laugh because you think the forum is not going to go up because you say "no one is working on it". Thats right, you dont know any one who is working on it because right now they are primarily PhDs in Computer Technology -- friends from IU School of Medicine.

    My wisest approach would be to continue talking to people who you think are frineds and gather more hateful, garbly gook quotes, but right now I have too many pages. These same friends are starting a BLOG on you (because I dont have time) calling it "Peter Waters Hurts Rosacea Sufferers: The Truth behind his LED Scam". These are your own male and female friends. You will soon realize whose loyalty most of the people you talk to lie with. Remeber I have been helping these people for 5 to 8 years and they trust me with their health and life. Most have been dramatically helped and we are adding on to the 170 testimonials on my website.

    BTW, the female on the ESFB does not have a medical or scientific background. Very easy to prove. Her indication that Neurontin and Lyrica have the same mechanism of action is wrong -- Neurontin works on sodium channels in nerve varicosities (and this is why it does not work) and Lyrica works on calcium channels (whcih is why it inhibits them from depoarizing and firing). The other thing that shows she has no medical or scientific background is that she writes entire threads on "nitrous oxide gas", the laughing gas in dentists' offices when she means "nitric oxide". These are two totally different compounds and any first year medical student or scientific/pharmacology student would NEVER make these mistakes because nitric oxide is the molecule of the decade according to SCIENCE because it is key to heart, lung, kidney and brain disease. She is talking about laughing gas. This is where I leave you.

    Continue to rant and rave and show your true self to people who think are your friends -- these people are not your friends and many "hate you and your vengeful attitude". You know when you were cursing at me months ago over PMs and I was posting about the light bulbs and cow urine I received the most emals ever -- going from approxzimately 340 emails per day to over 700 stating that was the funniest way to put you in there place and they laughed until they almost keeled over.

    Good luck buddy. BTW, I am not setting these two Blogs up -- the people you are writing to are. So dont yell at me because you have no influence over rosacea sufferers and are nothing more than a gnat on my shoulder who I find humorous and ill-informed and without true friends.

    Have a nice day. I am blocking this email right now because I dont have time to even look at your emails with all my consultations.

    Sorry, but you really do need to be smarter to tangle with me.


    Geoffrey

    ======================

    Dr. Geoffrey Nase

    Ph.D. Microvascular Physiologist

    www.drnase.com

    =======================

  10. #20
    Senior Member scrumptious's Avatar
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    I wonder if those who have been purported to have been burned were those who had constructed a lamp themselves and done a bodge job. It was a long time ago that i remember vaguely mentioning the Red Light debate to Dr Crouch and i'm sure he mentioned that some people were rigging up units and damaging themselves.

    My head is a little fuzzy so im not sure if it's being implied that Dr C and Dr N were in some sort of collusion together? If so, i find that incredible to believe seeing that Dr Crouch is one of the kindest, most emphatic and professional people i have ever been treated by.

    Baffling.

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