Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Redness related to burning?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Redness related to burning?

    I have been suffering with rosacea for 7 years, since I was 21. Mine literally came on overnight when I moved into a new flat in my last year of university. I woke up on the 3rd day with red burning cheeks, and since then, I have never had complete relief. Never had any skin problems since that day, so I don't know whether it was an environmental trigger, but it literally came out of nowhere. The first 5 years of my condition were manageable, I had flushing but no persistent redness and I saw it as manageable. I had non-purpuric vbeams to keep flushing under control and seemingly went about my life.

    The last couple of years however have been the toughest of my life by a long way. Persistent redness on the cheeks and nose, and now spreading to both temples, accompanied by intense burning. For the last couple of years the persistent redness has been mild, but the burning has been really intense. It is only in the last month that the redness and burning have been equally as bad.

    What I want to know is whether the redness and burning are correlated? I saw a new derm who said that most rosaceans care more about the redness, and that's why they opt for laser treatment. However, for me, the burning is what causes me the most pain, albeit in the last month, the redness has also been really bad. For me, when the redness gets worse, as does the burning sensation. The purpuric vbeam's in the past which have attacked the redness have also blunted the burning sensation, so is it these superficial blood vessels, or the nerves supplying them what's causing both the redness and burning?

    I had a non-purpuric vbeam a few weeks ago which seeminly just made the condition worse - I wanted a bruising one, but the new derm said that my condition wasn't severe enough for a purpuric vbeam. I should have insisted but they were adament it wasn't a good idea, and the non-purpuric vbeam has seeminly aggrevated the superficial vessels. I only went to a new derm because my old one was on Paternity leave, otherwise I would have never gone with a new derm.


    I have had 15+ Vbeams in the past, but its only the last 4 vbeams I have had persistent redness, rather than just flushing. I am going back to my old derm on the 7th August for a purpuric vbeam which I am praying is going to help both the redness and burning.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Seb91 View Post
    I have been suffering with rosacea for 7 years, since I was 21. Mine literally came on overnight when I moved into a new flat in my last year of university. I woke up on the 3rd day with red burning cheeks, and since then, I have never had complete relief. Never had any skin problems since that day, so I don't know whether it was an environmental trigger, but it literally came out of nowhere. The first 5 years of my condition were manageable, I had flushing but no persistent redness and I saw it as manageable. I had non-purpuric vbeams to keep flushing under control and seemingly went about my life.

    The last couple of years however have been the toughest of my life by a long way. Persistent redness on the cheeks and nose, and now spreading to both temples, accompanied by intense burning. For the last couple of years the persistent redness has been mild, but the burning has been really intense. It is only in the last month that the redness and burning have been equally as bad.

    What I want to know is whether the redness and burning are correlated? I saw a new derm who said that most rosaceans care more about the redness, and that's why they opt for laser treatment. However, for me, the burning is what causes me the most pain, albeit in the last month, the redness has also been really bad. For me, when the redness gets worse, as does the burning sensation. The purpuric vbeam's in the past which have attacked the redness have also blunted the burning sensation, so is it these superficial blood vessels, or the nerves supplying them what's causing both the redness and burning?

    I had a non-purpuric vbeam a few weeks ago which seeminly just made the condition worse - I wanted a bruising one, but the new derm said that my condition wasn't severe enough for a purpuric vbeam. I should have insisted but they were adament it wasn't a good idea, and the non-purpuric vbeam has seeminly aggrevated the superficial vessels. I only went to a new derm because my old one was on Paternity leave, otherwise I would have never gone with a new derm.


    I have had 15+ Vbeams in the past, but its only the last 4 vbeams I have had persistent redness, rather than just flushing. I am going back to my old derm on the 7th August for a purpuric vbeam which I am praying is going to help both the redness and burning.
    I understand what you are going through. I have constant heat sensitivity to my face and ears and constant burning. I have to use spray bottle and handheld fan everywhere I go. I have had several IPLs and my condition was only exacerbated by the laser. I have not done the v-beams. I agree that I could care less about the redness as long as the burning was gone. I get heat sensitivity first then flush then flare and swell then horrible pain like acid on the face.

    I am taking propranolol 40 mg 3x a day, clonidine .2mg3x a day, cbd capsule 25mg a day, Palmitoylethanolamide 600 mg 2 x a day and LDN (low dose naltrexone) 1.5 mg at. Bedtime. I have noticed a little bit of less heat sensitivity at least indoors with the LDN. Let me know what your regular derm says about any particular laser that may help the burning pain.

    Thank you.
    Angela

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ange4 View Post
      I understand what you are going through. I have constant heat sensitivity to my face and ears and constant burning. I have to use spray bottle and handheld fan everywhere I go. I have had several IPLs and my condition was only exacerbated by the laser. I have not done the v-beams. I agree that I could care less about the redness as long as the burning was gone. I get heat sensitivity first then flush then flare and swell then horrible pain like acid on the face.

      I am taking propranolol 40 mg 3x a day, clonidine .2mg3x a day, cbd capsule 25mg a day, Palmitoylethanolamide 600 mg 2 x a day and LDN (low dose naltrexone) 1.5 mg at. Bedtime. I have noticed a little bit of less heat sensitivity at least indoors with the LDN. Let me know what your regular derm says about any particular laser that may help the burning pain.

      Thank you.
      Angela
      Hi Angela,

      I have been having Vbeams for years which initially definitely helped the burning. However, my condition over the last 2 years has regressed to the point of persistent redness and constant burning. I had one bruising Vbeam last April that did wonders for both my redness and burning, I have covered it in another thread but happy to send you pictures and laser settings.

      Having said that, my last laser 3 weeks ago seemed to not have the same impact that the one last April did. I am at a loss on how to deal with it. I eat really well taking the functional approach but my skin now restricts me doing the things I love (going to the gym, surfing, play golf). I have had to leave my job recently because it has got so bad. It's been really tough and many people underestimate the impact the feeling of constant sunburn and sensitivity has on you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Seb

        I know you're concerned about trying oral medications, but have you tried Zhongzhou cream? This is less invasive than laser or oral medications, but has helped a lot of people on the forum. It took away the remaining burning/nearly all redness that oral medications didn't for me (I really wish I'd tried it 7 years earlier!). I would say I've noticed quite a few people who initially found IPL or laser helpful have eventually had a bad treatment and given up on it, though I know you do generally find the treatments so far. However, good laser treatments are, what they cannot treat are issues below the surface of the skin with the blood vessels that cause flushing (e.g. if the blood is clotting too much in the effected vessels underneath the skin, a systemic issue with the blood, or a problem with the nerves causing flushing).

        The other things you can do that are not invasive are dietary changes (I think you're already doing this?) and avoiding having chlorinated tap water touching the rosacea affected areas of your face (clean them with mineral water instead) - this last point may seem small but made a huge difference to me (as much as medications I'd say). Chlorinated tap water is great to make cheap safe water, but is terrible for highly sensitive rosacea skin.

        Was the student room you stayed in very hot when the redness started? E.g. a hot room at a hot time of year?

        I get a lot less burning since I treated the demodex mites, even when I get transient redness still.
        Last edited by antwantsclear; 27 August 2019, 12:03 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Seb91 View Post
          I have been suffering with rosacea for 7 years, since I was 21. Mine literally came on overnight when I moved into a new flat in my last year of university. I woke up on the 3rd day with red burning cheeks, and since then, I have never had complete relief. Never had any skin problems since that day, so I don't know whether it was an environmental trigger, but it literally came out of nowhere. The first 5 years of my condition were manageable, I had flushing but no persistent redness and I saw it as manageable. I had non-purpuric vbeams to keep flushing under control and seemingly went about my life.

          The last couple of years however have been the toughest of my life by a long way. Persistent redness on the cheeks and nose, and now spreading to both temples, accompanied by intense burning. For the last couple of years the persistent redness has been mild, but the burning has been really intense. It is only in the last month that the redness and burning have been equally as bad.

          What I want to know is whether the redness and burning are correlated? I saw a new derm who said that most rosaceans care more about the redness, and that's why they opt for laser treatment. However, for me, the burning is what causes me the most pain, albeit in the last month, the redness has also been really bad. For me, when the redness gets worse, as does the burning sensation. The purpuric vbeam's in the past which have attacked the redness have also blunted the burning sensation, so is it these superficial blood vessels, or the nerves supplying them what's causing both the redness and burning?

          I had a non-purpuric vbeam a few weeks ago which seeminly just made the condition worse - I wanted a bruising one, but the new derm said that my condition wasn't severe enough for a purpuric vbeam. I should have insisted but they were adament it wasn't a good idea, and the non-purpuric vbeam has seeminly aggrevated the superficial vessels. I only went to a new derm because my old one was on Paternity leave, otherwise I would have never gone with a new derm.


          I have had 15+ Vbeams in the past, but its only the last 4 vbeams I have had persistent redness, rather than just flushing. I am going back to my old derm on the 7th August for a purpuric vbeam which I am praying is going to help both the redness and burning.
          Hey! My case is similar to yours. I began IPL treatment time ago (2017) to reduces redness, mainly. Since the first session, a weird sensation appeared in my face and lasts until now: I can "feel" how the blood flows through the capillaries of my right cheek and how the capillaries "beat" or dilatate and constrict. Guess it is not what is happening in reality, but I dont know any way to describe it better. Before IPL, I did not feel that sensation ever.

          My burning sensation began to worse more and more since then. I think IPL made my skin more sensitive and, also, I have Hashimoto's and in that time my thyroid was going crazy. So, I think both were/are causes of my constant redness/irritation and burning sensation.

          Recently I have been searching for information about what is called "neurogenic rosacea". Do your research, if you want; because many symptoms that you and I have are correlated to this condition. In my case, I am pretty sure that first IPL session damaged my nerve endings or sensory nerves of the face, making them very hyperexcitable and dysfunctional (also, it can be dysfunctional due to my autoimmune disease)… So they react to whatever trigger very hardly. Also, if you have any dysfunctional small fibers/sensory nerves/nerve endings, it can impact on the vascular function; and vice versa.

          I may be wrong in most of the things I am telling you or I think I "know". But the general idea is that.


          I recommend you to read the posts of "laser_cat" (her name is Lizzy). She suffers from neurogenic rosacea and knows a lot about this condition.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
            Hi Seb

            I know you're concerned about trying oral medications, but have you tried Zhongzhou cream? This is less invasive than laser or oral medications, but has helped a lot of people on the forum. It took away the remaining burning/nearly all redness that oral medications didn't for me (I really wish I'd tried it 7 years earlier!). I would say I've noticed quite a few people who initially found IPL or laser helpful have eventually had a bad treatment and given up on it, though I know you do generally find the treatments so far. However, good laser treatments are, what they cannot treat are issues below the surface of the skin with the blood vessels that cause flushing (e.g. if the blood is clotting too much in the effected vessels underneath the skin, a systemic issue with the blood, or a problem with the nerves causing flushing).

            The other things you can do that are not invasive are dietary changes (I think you're already doing this?) and avoiding having chlorinated tap water touching the rosacea affected areas of your face (clean them with mineral water instead) - this last point may seem small but made a huge difference to me (as much as medications I'd say). Chlorinated tap water is great to make cheap safe water, but is terrible for highly sensitive rosacea skin.

            Was the student room you stayed in very hot when the redness started? E.g. a hot room at a hot time of year?

            I get a lot less burning since I treated the demodex mites, even when I get transient redness still.
            Hey,

            Thanks for the advice, will check it out. Interesting with regards to the tap water, I will definitely check this out.

            Yes, working on dietry changes and actually just tested positive for SIBO. I know there is a report out there which links SIBO to rosacea, but I believe that is more related to subtype 2, whilst I strictly have subtype 1 (persistent redness and burning). I will of course treat the SIBO to see if it has any correlation to the burning/inflammation.


            Mine is such a curious case. The room wasn't hot, but the only thing I remeber is using the pillows which has been left there before as I forgot mine. My redness and burning came on night 3, woke up in the middle of the night with red burning cheeks and had rosacea ever since. First 5 years were manageble as was only flushing but the last 2 years its progressed to persistent redness and burning, its been pretty unliveable. Another very strange thing is that when I go in the sun, initially I am sensitive for a week or so, but then my skin seems to adapt and I tan, and the burning diminishes. I have attached a picture of my skin last year 2 months after a bruising vbeam after I had been surfing for a week.

            I am tempted to just go and live on a beach and surf for the rest of my life if it means no more burning/redness and pain. Sounds pretty good anyway!

            IMG_0334.jpg

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Seb91 View Post
              Hey,

              Thanks for the advice, will check it out. Interesting with regards to the tap water, I will definitely check this out.

              Yes, working on dietry changes and actually just tested positive for SIBO. I know there is a report out there which links SIBO to rosacea, but I believe that is more related to subtype 2, whilst I strictly have subtype 1 (persistent redness and burning). I will of course treat the SIBO to see if it has any correlation to the burning/inflammation.


              Mine is such a curious case. The room wasn't hot, but the only thing I remeber is using the pillows which has been left there before as I forgot mine. My redness and burning came on night 3, woke up in the middle of the night with red burning cheeks and had rosacea ever since. First 5 years were manageble as was only flushing but the last 2 years its progressed to persistent redness and burning, its been pretty unliveable. Another very strange thing is that when I go in the sun, initially I am sensitive for a week or so, but then my skin seems to adapt and I tan, and the burning diminishes. I have attached a picture of my skin last year 2 months after a bruising vbeam after I had been surfing for a week.

              I am tempted to just go and live on a beach and surf for the rest of my life if it means no more burning/redness and pain. Sounds pretty good anyway!

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]5595[/ATTACH]
              Demodex mites can live off the human body for a certain amount of time (the length of time depends on type of material, temperature, moisture etc). So, it may be that you did pick up an infestation of mites in that way. Another great way to pick up a large infestation of them is from dogs, who are regularly treated for demodex mite related conditions using ivermectin. Zhongzhou cream should help if the problem is demodex mites. It could be the salted sea water kills the mites - several people have said sea water helps rosacea.
              Last edited by antwantsclear; 30 August 2019, 02:01 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
                Demodex mites can live off the human body for a certain amount of time (the length of time depends on type of material, temperature, moisture etc). So, it may be that you did pick up an infestation of mites in that way. Another great way to pick up a large infestation of them is from dogs, who are regularly treated for demodex mite related conditions using ivermectin. Zhongzhou cream should help if the problem is demodex mites. It could be the salted sea water kills the mites - several people have said sea water helps rosacea.
                Hey,

                I was always under the impression that demodex was associated more with subtype 2. I also read that they can't live in surfaces such as pillow cases etc, but only on the skin (hence why I ruled out any correlation between the pillow cases and my immediate onset of rosacea.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Seb91 View Post
                  Hey,

                  I was always under the impression that demodex was associated more with subtype 2. I also read that they can't live in surfaces such as pillow cases etc, but only on the skin (hence why I ruled out any correlation between the pillow cases and my immediate onset of rosacea.)
                  They can live for up to around 48-72 hours off the skin, and they like moist surfaces like towels. Professor Frank Powell in Dublin is leading the most thorough research on demodex mites and rosacea and he has identified them as contributing to type 1 not only type 2. You will also find many people on this forum who are treating type 1 (redness, flushing, burning) with demodex mite treatments such as Zhongzhou cream and Soolantra. Demodex mite treatments have made a big difference to my ears for example where I never get type 2 rosacea at all.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Some new light on the demodex mites are:

                    (1) Movement

                    "In the examination of healthy people by light microscopy, Demodex mites were detected in 6 cases (2.8%). Given the ability of the mites to move over the surface of the skin at a speed of 8-16 mm/h, as well as random selection of the study site, this fact does not prove the absence of mites."

                    (2) After 30 days of Ivermectin Treatment there is an INCREASE of demodex mites

                    "Patients enrolled in subgroup A received only external therapy with a drug containing 1% ivermectin in the form of a cream 1 time per day for 30 days. Patients enrolled in subgroup B received a drug containing 250 mg of metronidazole systemically 2 times a day, externally 1% metronidazole in the form of a gel 1 time per day for 30 days. A repeat visit of the patients took place after 30 days of continuous therapy. Subjectively, treatment regimens of patients were well tolerated, no side effects were noted, no patient was excluded from the study. When comparing the efficacy of the therapy, it was found that statistically significantly more Demodex mites were found after treatment with confocal laser scanning in vivo microscopy (P≤0.05) (Table 7)."

                    Nevertheless, the ivermectin treatment after the 30 days IMPROVED rosacea even though the mites increased.

                    "Analysis of the clinical picture showed a positive dynamics of therapy, which manifested itself in a significant decrease in the number of morphological elements characterizing the severity of inflammation (P≤0.05). The effectiveness of the therapy was confirmed by a reduction in subjective complaints of patients after the treatment, and patients who received only external therapy had no complaints of a feeling of lusters of skin and the appearance of greasy lusters, which is an additional advantage."

                    More information

                    (3) Reduced TLR2 expression in sebocytes

                    “Our results also show for the first time that Demodex mites secrete bioactive molecules that reduced TLR2 expression in sebocytes.”

                    More information
                    Last edited by Brady Barrows; 31 August 2019, 05:38 PM.
                    Brady Barrows
                    Blog - Join the RRDi


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
                      They can live for up to around 48-72 hours off the skin, and they like moist surfaces like towels. Professor Frank Powell in Dublin is leading the most thorough research on demodex mites and rosacea and he has identified them as contributing to type 1 not only type 2. You will also find many people on this forum who are treating type 1 (redness, flushing, burning) with demodex mite treatments such as Zhongzhou cream and Soolantra. Demodex mite treatments have made a big difference to my ears for example where I never get type 2 rosacea at all.
                      Hey antwantsclear,

                      I have decided to explore the link between mites and my rosacea a little bit more and going to look at getting a refferal to Dr Powell. I am at my wits end, but trying to explore all the options. I have tried Soolantra before, albeit only for a couple of weeks which may not have been long enough. I am super sensitised to any skin creams, I can't even tolerate the Cetaphil cleanser and moisturiser, so hoping Soolantra won't be too bad if I do give it another go.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Seb91 View Post
                        Hey antwantsclear,

                        I have decided to explore the link between mites and my rosacea a little bit more and going to look at getting a refferal to Dr Powell. I am at my wits end, but trying to explore all the options. I have tried Soolantra before, albeit only for a couple of weeks which may not have been long enough. I am super sensitised to any skin creams, I can't even tolerate the Cetaphil cleanser and moisturiser, so hoping Soolantra won't be too bad if I do give it another go.
                        Hi Seb

                        I think a referral to Professor Powell would be a very good idea. However, when I was referred I wasn't able to get one - interesting to see if you can. There is a very big shortage of doctors in Ireland (e.g. 2 year waiting lists sometimes), so any very well qualified ones like him are very careful who they decide to see, and I had already tried most options he could offer. Even if you can't see him, his textbook on rosacea gives you an indication of many of the treatment options he may use. Beyond Soolantra, I'm not sure what treatments he would offer you for demodex except possibly oral Ivermectin (off licence), but that is not commonly prescribed for rosacea. Zhongzhou cream has been very successful for many people (e.g. I found it much better than Soolantra cream) to kill mites and is available on Amazon - Brady also uses it I believe, who you'll know has a thorough knowledge of rosacea treatments. Professor Tony Chu can offer you many treatments to help with the redness and flushing, but he is not interested in the demodex mites theory. I suggest exploring both his treatment options and the demodex mite treatments - this is clearly bothering you a lot. In the end, 95% of adults have demodex mites (according to studies) so there is a very good chance that mites are interfering in some way with your rosacea.

                        I've found this to be a good place to buy demodex mite treatments - it's important to treat the hair as well as the face:
                        https://demodex.co.uk/shop/
                        Last edited by antwantsclear; 17 September 2019, 10:57 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
                          Hi Seb

                          I think a referral to Professor Powell would be a very good idea. However, when I was referred I wasn't able to get one - interesting to see if you can. There is a very big shortage of doctors in Ireland (e.g. 2 year waiting lists sometimes), so any very well qualified ones like him are very careful who they decide to see, and I had already tried most options he could offer. Even if you can't see him, his textbook on rosacea gives you an indication of many of the treatment options he may use. Beyond Soolantra, I'm not sure what treatments he would offer you for demodex except possibly oral Ivermectin (off licence), but that is not commonly prescribed for rosacea. Zhongzhou cream has been very successful for many people (e.g. I found it much better than Soolantra cream) to kill mites and is available on Amazon - Brady also uses it I believe, who you'll know has a thorough knowledge of rosacea treatments. Professor Tony Chu can offer you many treatments to help with the redness and flushing, but he is not interested in the demodex mites theory. I suggest exploring both his treatment options and the demodex mite treatments - this is clearly bothering you a lot. In the end, 95% of adults have demodex mites (according to studies) so there is a very good chance that mites are interfering in some way with your rosacea.

                          I've found this to be a good place to buy demodex mite treatments - it's important to treat the hair as well as the face:
                          https://demodex.co.uk/shop/

                          Thanks for the information. So, I went to another local dermatologist for a second opinion, as right now I am in the process of exploring all other options to hopefully sort this out. This has include seeing a neurologist to have an MRI and B12 levels checked, gastroenterologist for SIBO test (tested + but show absolutely no stomach related symptoms, could it be related to my redness and burning?) I will obviously work to erradicate the SIBO to see if this in turn helps my skin.

                          The dermatologist said that my case was very different from the ones he sees on a daily basis. Although I definitely show signs of rosacea, attached in the picture, he said my redness is mild in comparison to the burning I am experiencing. I have such extreme hyerpsensitivity, I couldn't even tolerate Cerave Moisturing Lotion which is said to be one of the calmest on the market. People may look at me and think his skin is fine but the burning I have 24/7 is so debilitating. He did discuss the idea of facial erythromalgia which is very rare but something I am going to explore. The latest laser treatment I had (attached) also didn't provide relief like I hoped. I am now worried vbeam treatments, which I have relied on in the past, are becoming less and less effective.

                          The derm actually recomended a narrowband UVB lamp after hearing how my skin reacts in the sun after a week. It is strange that when I am in the sun, my skin is of course very sensitive, but after 4 or 5 days, it becomes more and more accustomed to the heat, and my symptoms seem to diminish. The derm said that the UV rays could be triggering a change in the nerve pathways which I found interesting.

                          I am determined to get to the bottom of this. I was wondering whether anyone knew where I could get tested for demodex mites in London or the UK? I had a Google search but came up short.

                          Thanks,
                          IMG_2010.jpg
                          IMG_2246.jpg

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi have you had any allergy testing done, patch or skin prick?



                            Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Andrew P View Post
                              Hi have you had any allergy testing done, patch or skin prick?

                              Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk
                              I am actually going to get a referral to get a Demodex mite test done, and I had had a full range of bloods done last year. Everything looked normal - the one thing was I had a high secretory IGA marking, which is stated as the following; "Elevated levels in saliva are associated with an immune response to stimulation by infections and inflammatory reactions. High levels of SIgA production may indicate an infection of the digestive system, in which case a Comprehensive Stool Analysis with parasites would be recommended." I did in fact do all other tests and there were no parsites or sign of infection. As mentioned, I did test positive for SIBO but whether that's related, I just don't know. I don't get spots, just mild redness and severe burning and hypersensitivity.

                              I didn't have any glaring food intolerances either, so I just don't know. I have had 15+ Vbeams but they seem to vary in their effectiveness, so for me its a case of exploring other avenues as my condition seems to get worse and worse.

                              Do you know where I can get a skin prick done in London or the UK?

                              Thanks,

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X