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  • Zhongzhou cream

    I wondered if anyone else had noticed that the original version of Zhongzhou cream appears to have changed its ingredients. I am still buying the original not the cosmetic version. However it now seems to have a more creamy consistency and is not as effective for me. I know there is a new cosmetic version in a black tub which I've tried and this version doesn't work for me.

  • #2
    Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
    I wondered if anyone else had noticed that the original version of Zhongzhou cream appears to have changed its ingredients. I am still buying the original not the cosmetic version. However it now seems to have a more creamy consistency and is not as effective for me. I know there is a new cosmetic version in a black tub which I've tried and this version doesn't work for me.
    For clarity this is the type I am using.
    https://demodex.co.uk/product/zinc-o...mate-ointment/

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh no... I worried they may change it again.

      When I first started using it back in 2010 (test) and then full use (2013), it was more like a thickish ointment. Well, ointment is probably not the right word. It actually applied very nicely and was durable. I could apply ice packs as required and they would not lift the ZZ off my skin. It had to be diluted as does the one I am currently using.

      In mid 2014 when I ordered my next batch, I was horrified to see it had completely changed and could not be used on it's own on my face. The previous batches helped control the neon sign flushing as it left a barrier on my skin. And a slight white cast.
      The new batch, seemed to dissolve to nothing and then dried like poster paint. I was horrified and stressed and made a few posts on the demodex forum, where I was assured it had not been changed.
      Then finally I got a response that my batch was intended for Alaska, or some such place, where it is colder and the product is more durable there. It was ridiculous to say the least.
      In any case, I was living in an igloo myself back then.

      My facial symptoms revved up badly and more stress set in.

      Until, I decided to use the niacinamide gel my compounding pharmacist made for me.
      That mixed with a tiny bit of ZZ worked perfectly. In fact, the final mix was FAR superior to the ZZ batch formula I was grieving over.

      I have not looked back. Now-a-days I only use ZZ (mixed with the niacinamide gel) on my nose and above my upper lip area, where I seem to need it constantly. (I apply the gel to the rest of my face).
      I do spot treat other areas when required ( if I develop the odd P&P or mostly if the skin becomes inflamed).

      I have been fearing the ZZ formula would change again... and your post has me worried.

      When you say it is creamier... can you provide more details?
      Does it disappear into the skin, or sit on top with a slight white cast?
      If so, it is kind of like diluted vasoline, (I can't think of another word).
      The old batch often separated a little. Not like curdled milk, but it would form what appeared to be an oily layer on the top, so you had to mix it up with a Q-tip.
      I seem to recall Walter the rep saying the base was tricky to create as it involved mixing oils and water.
      Maybe that is why they changed it in 2014.

      Do you think you may be reacting to one of the new ingredients?

      I am about to place a new order. The first in a very long time and I had been wondering if the formula/base might have been changed... again...

      I hope your skin adjusts to it, and/or you can find a suitable mix like I did.
      Last edited by Mistica; 24 July 2020, 03:00 AM.
      Previous Numerous IPL.
      Supplements: High dose Niacinamide, Vit K2, low dose Vit A. Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Mod- dose B's. Low dose zinc. Testing Quercetin.

      Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA 2%, ethyl ascorbate 2%.

      Treating for gut dysbiosis.(This is helping).
      Previous GAPS diet. Have now introduced lots of fibre.
      Fermented Foods. Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.
      Oral Colostrum. Helps reduce food reactions.

      Comment


      • #4
        This has been discussed before in other threads. The RRDi has an ingredient comparison report that has been approved by Demodex Solutions. If you purchase either the ZZ Cream Original or the ZZ Cream Cosmetic, the RRDi receives a small affiliate fee. I prefer the cosmetic version since it seems to be 'creamier.'

        After you review the ingredient comparison report above, if there is some sort of change in the original can you please point out what you have discovered so I can ask Walter about it? Can you show a screen shot of the changed ingredient(s)?
        Last edited by Brady Barrows; 24 July 2020, 11:59 AM.
        Brady Barrows
        Blog - Join the RRDi


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mistica View Post
          Oh no... I worried they may change it again.

          When I first started using it back in 2010 (test) and then full use (2013), it was more like a thickish ointment. Well, ointment is probably not the right word. It actually applied very nicely and was durable. I could apply ice packs as required and they would not lift the ZZ off my skin. It had to be diluted as does the one I am currently using.

          In mid 2014 when I ordered my next batch, I was horrified to see it had completely changed and could not be used on it's own on my face. The previous batches helped control the neon sign flushing as it left a barrier on my skin. And a slight white cast.
          The new batch, seemed to dissolve to nothing and then dried like poster paint. I was horrified and stressed and made a few posts on the demodex forum, where I was assured it had not been changed.
          Then finally I got a response that my batch was intended for Alaska, or some such place, where it is colder and the product is more durable there. It was ridiculous to say the least.
          In any case, I was living in an igloo myself back then.

          My facial symptoms revved up badly and more stress set in.

          Until, I decided to use the niacinamide gel my compounding pharmacist made for me.
          That mixed with a tiny bit of ZZ worked perfectly. In fact, the final mix was FAR superior to the ZZ batch formula I was grieving over.

          I have not looked back. Now-a-days I only use ZZ (mixed with the niacinamide gel) on my nose and above my upper lip area, where I seem to need it constantly. (I apply the gel to the rest of my face).
          I do spot treat other areas when required ( if I develop the odd P&P or mostly if the skin becomes inflamed).

          I have been fearing the ZZ formula would change again... and your post has me worried.

          When you say it is creamier... can you provide more details?
          Does it disappear into the skin, or sit on top with a slight white cast?
          If so, it is kind of like diluted vasoline, (I can't think of another word).
          The old batch often separated a little. Not like curdled milk, but it would form what appeared to be an oily layer on the top, so you had to mix it up with a Q-tip.
          I seem to recall Walter the rep saying the base was tricky to create as it involved mixing oils and water.
          Maybe that is why they changed it in 2014.

          Do you think you may be reacting to one of the new ingredients?

          I am about to place a new order. The first in a very long time and I had been wondering if the formula/base might have been changed... again...

          I hope your skin adjusts to it, and/or you can find a suitable mix like I did.
          I agree - until the last two containers of the original Zhongzhou substance I bought it was more ointment like as you say. Now it seems creamy, rather like the cosmetic version - which I have bought separately (so I know what the consistency of the cosmetic version is like). I know some like Brady like the creamy version, which doesn't need diluting to make it work well. But my skin worked much better with the ointment which I used to apply with a wet finger to dilute it slightly. I have checked with the supplier, www.demodex.co.uk, and they say it's definitely the original Zhongzhou I have. It would help if the supplier can ensure they are making the original ingredients Zhongzhou ointment available as well as the new cosmetic version to meet different users' needs.

          Anyone else who has problems getting hold of the proper original Zhongzhou, do let us know here.

          The Zhongzhou I have is in the original silver jar not the version on the link (the black jar).
          Last edited by antwantsclear; 24 July 2020, 06:16 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            I just looked at the ingredients listed in the link you provided and I don't recognise two of them at all.

            Ingredients: this is a compound preparation. Each gram of ointment contains 71 mg of Zinc Oxide and Sublimed Sulfur. Subsidiary ingredients: Menthol, Matrixyl, attar.

            I know what Matrixyl is, but never saw it listed in the original ZZ Ointment (and I am speaking from back in 2010 to 2013).

            I have no idea what Attar is. Do you know?
            And what about the boric acid, salicylic acid, and secret herbs?

            I can't see the cosmetic version on that site to compare. Maybe it is the cosmetic version, but listed incorrectly, as the ingredient list on the Demodex Solutions website (original website) is the same as it has always been.
            (Not to say they may not have changed the base since I last ordered it).

            Ingredients:
            The Ointments formula is protected by a Chinese state patent,
            some of the ingredients are:
            Zinc oxide
            Sublimed sulfur
            Menthol
            Boric acid
            salicylic acid
            Chinese medicine herbs
            and the base which is a complex formula on his own.

            I just checked Brady's comparison list and the UK ingredient list doesn't match that either. Hmmm

            Here's a mystery for you to solve, Brady!
            Last edited by Mistica; 24 July 2020, 10:08 AM.
            Previous Numerous IPL.
            Supplements: High dose Niacinamide, Vit K2, low dose Vit A. Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Mod- dose B's. Low dose zinc. Testing Quercetin.

            Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA 2%, ethyl ascorbate 2%.

            Treating for gut dysbiosis.(This is helping).
            Previous GAPS diet. Have now introduced lots of fibre.
            Fermented Foods. Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.
            Oral Colostrum. Helps reduce food reactions.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mistica View Post
              I just looked at the ingredients listed in the link you provided and I don't recognise two of them at all.

              Ingredients: this is a compound preparation. Each gram of ointment contains 71 mg of Zinc Oxide and Sublimed Sulfur. Subsidiary ingredients: Menthol, Matrixyl, attar.

              I know what Matrixyl is, but never saw it listed in the original ZZ Ointment (and I am speaking from back in 2010 to 2013).

              I have no idea what Attar is. Do you know?
              And what about the boric acid, salicylic acid, and secret herbs?

              I can't see the cosmetic version on that site to compare. Maybe it is the cosmetic version, but listed incorrectly, as the ingredient list on the Demodex Solutions website (original website) is the same as it has always been.
              (Not to say they may not have changed the base since I last ordered it).

              Ingredients:
              The Ointments formula is protected by a Chinese state patent,
              some of the ingredients are:
              Zinc oxide
              Sublimed sulfur
              Menthol
              Boric acid
              salicylic acid
              Chinese medicine herbs
              and the base which is a complex formula on his own.

              I just checked Brady's comparison list and the UK ingredient list doesn't match that either. Hmmm

              Here's a mystery for you to solve, Brady!
              I will do my best but need to know what to ask? Maybe a new comparison list will be forthcoming if I knew what to put. The silver jar is no more and the new black jar with ZZ cream is as afar as I know the 'new' ingredient list. Walter told me in an email years ago that one of the 'secret' ingredients is Java Brucea (Brucea javanica) but you will not see this on an ingredient list.
              Last edited by Brady Barrows; 24 July 2020, 12:14 PM.
              Brady Barrows
              Blog - Join the RRDi


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
                For clarity this is the type I am using.
                https://demodex.co.uk/product/zinc-o...mate-ointment/
                Demodex Solutions doesn't sell that gold box with the silver jar anymore. The packaging and the ingredients have changed.

                Zhongzhou-ointment-new-packaging.jpg.133d79d7b32a52432d007a47f544854d.jpg
                If you can still get the gold box and silver jar from that website, it may not be Demodex Solutions. I checked the site and it doesn't say anywhere that Demodex Solutions owns the website.
                Last edited by Brady Barrows; 24 July 2020, 12:21 PM.
                Brady Barrows
                Blog - Join the RRDi


                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi I’m new

                  Hi I’m new on the forum and would like to send messages but don’t know how and can’t find send messages option, I have Demodex and would like to get rid of them thank you

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
                    Demodex Solutions doesn't sell that gold box with the silver jar anymore. The packaging and the ingredients have changed.

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]5715[/ATTACH]
                    If you can still get the gold box and silver jar from that website, it may not be Demodex Solutions. I checked the site and it doesn't say anywhere that Demodex Solutions owns the website.
                    Brady - you may be right. Another Chinese supplier may be copying the original silver box with slightly different ingredients (or indeed it could be more similar to a version of the cosmetic cream). I have ordered through your link for Demodex Solutions to see if the original version is the same as I have had in the past. Thanks.
                    Last edited by antwantsclear; 24 July 2020, 04:22 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Walter from Demodex Solutions

                      Hello all

                      I am Walter from Demodex Solutions ltd trying to clear up some things.

                      ZhongZhou ointment is made by Kunming Zhongzhou Pharmaceutical Co. Ltd which makes only this product.
                      We already buy directly from the factory and distribute this ointment for 17 years, during all this time
                      we were and still are in close contact with the factory and Professor Zhao Zhongzhou, so we know what we are talking about.
                      First of all, the active ingredients were never changed since the beginning of the factory, the ointment is an officially registered
                      and patented OTC medicine and because of this nothing from the active ingredients can be changed without going through the whole
                      registering cycle again (clinical tests etc.)
                      The only thing what changed a bit during all this time is the base from the product, it is now a bit more easy to apply as in the beginning
                      but once again, NOT ONE active ingredient changed.
                      The factory allowed us to change the packing to English language and design of the box but is still exactly the same as
                      the golden Chinese packing and is still produced and packed in the same factory exclusively for us.
                      This way we can also control better the counterfeit products if they would appear.

                      Since some countries don’t allow to import a medicine from abroad we asked the factory to make a cosmetic version for us.
                      There are no forbidden substances in the ointment, the only thing we needed to change is removing:
                      1. the boric acid (not allowed in cosmetic products anymore) which was used as a preservative so doesn’t influence the working of the ointment
                      2. and the Triethanolamine which was used for the base
                      and of course the text of the packing because as cosmetic product one cannot say that it heals something.
                      So the active ingredients are exactly the same as the original and working the same good, only the base is smoother.
                      This cosmetic version is made exclusively for us.

                      Regarding this UK Company, they are not allowed to sell ZhongZhou ointment, we are the exclusive dealers also for the whole
                      of Europe including the United kingdom.
                      We have no idea where they get it, maybe from a Chinese wholesaler or it is a counterfeit product which there are many in China,
                      the factory is investigating this case.

                      For your information, ZZ Cream cosmetic is also available on amazon com

                      Best regards

                      Walter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
                        Demodex Solutions doesn't sell that gold box with the silver jar anymore. The packaging and the ingredients have changed.

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]5715[/ATTACH]
                        If you can still get the gold box and silver jar from that website, it may not be Demodex Solutions. I checked the site and it doesn't say anywhere that Demodex Solutions owns the website.
                        Hello Brady,

                        On the actual Demodex Solutions website... The packaging is indicated as being changed, ie to the black jar, BUT the ingredient list does not appear to have changed. (Although of course, they never did declare the entire list. But the basic list remains unchanged).

                        In your statement above.. you have said the packaging and the ingredients have changed. Is this perhaps an error?
                        Thanks!
                        Previous Numerous IPL.
                        Supplements: High dose Niacinamide, Vit K2, low dose Vit A. Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Mod- dose B's. Low dose zinc. Testing Quercetin.

                        Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA 2%, ethyl ascorbate 2%.

                        Treating for gut dysbiosis.(This is helping).
                        Previous GAPS diet. Have now introduced lots of fibre.
                        Fermented Foods. Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.
                        Oral Colostrum. Helps reduce food reactions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I ordered Original Zhongzhou from Demodex Solutions. However, it did not say 'Original Zhongzhou' on the packaging when it arrived unlike on the website picture. To me, it seems like it is the cosmetic Zhongzhou cream, which I have specifically ordered in the past so I know what the cosmetic version is like. Here are the links for the respective packaging, very similar but not the same:

                          https://www.demodexsolutions.com/pro...lfur-ointment/ Original

                          https://www.demodexsolutions.com/pro...etic-zz-cream/ Cosmetic cream

                          I'm not sure why the packaging looks so similar, but the cream that arrived certainly doesn't say 'original' on it unlike the packaging shown on the website.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
                            I ordered Original Zhongzhou from Demodex Solutions. However, it did not say 'Original Zhongzhou' on the packaging when it arrived unlike on the website picture. To me, it seems like it is the cosmetic Zhongzhou cream, which I have specifically ordered in the past so I know what the cosmetic version is like. Here are the links for the respective packaging, very similar but not the same:

                            https://www.demodexsolutions.com/pro...lfur-ointment/ Original

                            https://www.demodexsolutions.com/pro...etic-zz-cream/ Cosmetic cream

                            I'm not sure why the packaging looks so similar, but the cream that arrived certainly doesn't say 'original' on it unlike the packaging shown on the website.
                            That is extremely concerning news
                            I haven't placed my order yet, but had hoped all would be well, based on the demodex solutions website. Apparently they have indeed changed the original formula as well, but have not been transparent about it. Or they are really only selling the cosmetic version but continue to advertise the two? Maybe the cosmetic version is (currently) more popular and they only want to produce one type?

                            I doubt we will ever know the truth, as they weren't transparent about the last change either.

                            It causes such distress when a company changes the formula of a product, when there are people who depend on it to control health issues.
                            Previous Numerous IPL.
                            Supplements: High dose Niacinamide, Vit K2, low dose Vit A. Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Mod- dose B's. Low dose zinc. Testing Quercetin.

                            Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA 2%, ethyl ascorbate 2%.

                            Treating for gut dysbiosis.(This is helping).
                            Previous GAPS diet. Have now introduced lots of fibre.
                            Fermented Foods. Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.
                            Oral Colostrum. Helps reduce food reactions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mistica View Post
                              Hello Brady,
                              On the actual Demodex Solutions website... The packaging is indicated as being changed, ie to the black jar, BUT the ingredient list does not appear to have changed. (Although of course, they never did declare the entire list. But the basic list remains unchanged).
                              In your statement above.. you have said the packaging and the ingredients have changed. Is this perhaps an error?
                              Thanks!
                              I am not sure that the ingredients have changed when the packaging changed. Maybe the wayback machine can show an ingredient list ten years ago and compare.

                              My cursory investigation using the wayback machine is the following:

                              On February 16, 2006 it shows the old yellow packaging with the ingredients.
                              2_16_2006.jpg
                              The ingriedients are:
                              Zinc oxide
                              Sublimed sulfur
                              Menthol
                              Boric acid 2%
                              salicylic acid 0.5%
                              Dimethiconum Composite
                              And 3 more herbs which are a secret.
                              ========================

                              On April 26, 2010 it shows the gold packaging with the ingredients.
                              4_26_2010.jpg


                              The ingriedients are:
                              Zinc oxide
                              Sublimed sulfur
                              Menthol
                              Boric acid 2%
                              salicylic acid 0.5%
                              Dimethiconum Composite
                              And 3 more herbs which are a secret.
                              =======================

                              Today with the black packaging with the ingredients:
                              Ingredients:
                              The Ointments formula is protected by a Chinese state patent,
                              some of the ingredients are:
                              Zinc oxide
                              Sublimed sulfur
                              Menthol
                              Boric acid
                              salicylic acid
                              Chinese medicine herbs
                              and the base which is a complex formula on his own.

                              Because of the RRDi affiliate relationship with Demodex Solutions where we receive a small fee if someone purchases the ZZ cream to our non profit organization, Walter Freyne, the owner of Demodex Solutions, approved of the ingredient comparison spreadsheet we produced because so many asked about the ingredients. In this comparison Walter revealed more ingredients than he does on his website. I have emailed Walter and asked if the ingredients are still the same and will get back with you on this as soon as Walter responds.
                              Last edited by Brady Barrows; 31 July 2020, 01:30 PM.
                              Brady Barrows
                              Blog - Join the RRDi


                              Comment

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