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  • ZZ cream application area

    Hello all,

    I'm on day 2 of my ZZ cream journey and have a question--I recall reading awhile ago that it's important to treat all areas of the face to get all of the mites but now can't find much information about that. I'm wondering if anyone has had any success with spot treating certain areas. I've never had any redness on my forehead and that area is already very dry and flaky so I'd really rather leave it alone unless it's absolutely necessary. Any insight? Thank you!

  • #2
    Originally posted by anemicroyalty View Post
    Hello all,

    I'm on day 2 of my ZZ cream journey and have a question--I recall reading awhile ago that it's important to treat all areas of the face to get all of the mites but now can't find much information about that. I'm wondering if anyone has had any success with spot treating certain areas. I've never had any redness on my forehead and that area is already very dry and flaky so I'd really rather leave it alone unless it's absolutely necessary. Any insight? Thank you!
    Okay, this is spooky. Day two for me too, two and a half, anyway, and that's my exact same question in a different thread. My nose isn't consistently red, just sometimes when it flushes/gets irritated; and I'm not sure whether to put it there or not. I'm definitely not going to apply to every inch of my face though; it's too expensive for that. Just the irritated bits.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by anemicroyalty View Post
      Hello all,

      I'm on day 2 of my ZZ cream journey and have a question--I recall reading awhile ago that it's important to treat all areas of the face to get all of the mites but now can't find much information about that. I'm wondering if anyone has had any success with spot treating certain areas. I've never had any redness on my forehead and that area is already very dry and flaky so I'd really rather leave it alone unless it's absolutely necessary. Any insight? Thank you!
      What are you using ZZ Cream to treat? We need a brief history and explanation of your issues. And preferably a photo.

      I use it all over my face in a week solution diluted with water applied with the palms of my hands, but I have used it for spot treatment many times before.

      https://rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea...rate!-(w-pics)
      How I was cured from Demodectic / Demodex Rosacea (Types 1 & 2 & nearing 3), Seborrhoeic Dermatitis and Eczema

      Got a smartphone? Then please post a non-revealing pic of your face/skin to www.imgur.com, instead of using walls of text to describe it to us. It may be the best thing you've ever done!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RedRecluse View Post
        What are you using ZZ Cream to treat? We need a brief history and explanation of your issues. And preferably a photo.

        I use it all over my face in a week solution diluted with water applied with the palms of my hands, but I have used it for spot treatment many times before.

        https://rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea...rate!-(w-pics)
        I read some of your other thread; really happy that zz cream helped your skin. One thing you wrote that I couldn't quite figure out; you said you mixed with water? Is that as in, you literally poured water into the pot it comes in? And if so, how much?

        I've used it for a couple of days and I'm already getting more small red dots/lumps/papule things. Do you think that would be too early for a die-off, though? Maybe it's just breaking me out and I should stop? I have rosacea, by the way, and that's the main reason I'm trying zz cream; for the persistent redness. Anyway, if you could give me any advice based on your experience I'd really appreciate it; thanks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ASordidGod View Post
          I read some of your other thread; really happy that zz cream helped your skin. One thing you wrote that I couldn't quite figure out; you said you mixed with water? Is that as in, you literally poured water into the pot it comes in? And if so, how much? I've used it for a couple of days and I'm already getting more small red dots/lumps/papule things. Do you think that would be too early for a die-off, though? Maybe it's just breaking me out and I should stop? I have rosacea, by the way, and that's the main reason I'm trying zz cream; for the persistent redness. Anyway, if you could give me any advice based on your experience I'd really appreciate it; thanks.
          As mentioned before, It Gets Worse Before It Gets Better, and this is not uncommon in medical treatments, such as in treating acne, which the Mayo Clinic states, "With most prescription acne drugs, you may not see results for four to eight weeks, and your skin may get worse before it gets better. It can take many months or years for your acne to clear up completely," or in immunotherapy.

          While some medical treatments do improve a medical issue and it does NOT get worse before its gets better, in such treatments the issue just gets better, and of course, that is what is the ideal medical treatment, but in some cases it simply gets worse before it gets better. If you ever find a treatment for your rosacea that immediately improves your rosacea, we are all ears to learn about it.

          Of course, if one has a very bad case of rosacea and the doctor prescribes high dose antibiotics, usually the rosacea improves. However, when antibiotic treatment stops, the rosacea usually returns with a vengeance, so obviously, while it does improve rosacea it certainly isn't curing it.

          With Soolantra or the ZZ cream it takes twelve weeks for clearance but you should see improvement in four weeks.
          Last edited by Brady Barrows; 17 April 2020, 05:14 PM.
          Brady Barrows
          Blog - Join the RRDi


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RedRecluse View Post
            What are you using ZZ Cream to treat? We need a brief history and explanation of your issues. And preferably a photo.

            I use it all over my face in a week solution diluted with water applied with the palms of my hands, but I have used it for spot treatment many times before.

            https://rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea...rate!-(w-pics)
            I've had worsening rosacea, mostly on my cheeks and a little on my chin for a few years now. It started as just flushing but became some persistent redness on the cheeks and now I've been getting some pustules as well. The only treatment I've used before is metrocream which didn't help at all.

            So far I've been tolerating the ZZ cream pretty well--I applied it to my whole face last night but used a thin layer on damp skin and layered squalane oil on top (what I've been using for moisture for about a year and my skin seems to like it ok) but I'm wondering if diluting it like this makes it less effective?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by anemicroyalty View Post
              I've had worsening rosacea, mostly on my cheeks and a little on my chin for a few years now. It started as just flushing but became some persistent redness on the cheeks and now I've been getting some pustules as well. The only treatment I've used before is metrocream which didn't help at all.

              So far I've been tolerating the ZZ cream pretty well--I applied it to my whole face last night but used a thin layer on damp skin and layered squalane oil on top (what I've been using for moisture for about a year and my skin seems to like it ok) but I'm wondering if diluting it like this makes it less effective?
              It will be fine with the squalene oil, or a moisturizer. I would apply it to your whole face including your eyebrows, as mites tend to migrate. The flakey skin on your forehead (I'm sorry I was reading both questions- I believe that was you) should get better as well with the ZZ. I also water mine down by applying it to my wet face and dabbing the cream in spots, then rubbing it in everywhere. There is something extremely healing in the ZZ, maybe the Chinese herbs, but it really does change/improve the overall texture of your skin. Or perhaps in killing the demodex, your skin is able to heal. Die-off is good. The time frame is different for everyone. Unless you feel a sunburned or "sore" sensation, stick with it, and use at night before bed. Keep us posted.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ASordidGod View Post
                I read some of your other thread; really happy that zz cream helped your skin. One thing you wrote that I couldn't quite figure out; you said you mixed with water? Is that as in, you literally poured water into the pot it comes in? And if so, how much?

                I've used it for a couple of days and I'm already getting more small red dots/lumps/papule things. Do you think that would be too early for a die-off, though? Maybe it's just breaking me out and I should stop? I have rosacea, by the way, and that's the main reason I'm trying zz cream; for the persistent redness. Anyway, if you could give me any advice based on your experience I'd really appreciate it; thanks.
                Thank you. I mix it in the palms of my hands. I wet them, take a little bit of ZZ Cream from the tub, mix all over my palms, and then apply the diluted solution all over my face.
                How I was cured from Demodectic / Demodex Rosacea (Types 1 & 2 & nearing 3), Seborrhoeic Dermatitis and Eczema

                Got a smartphone? Then please post a non-revealing pic of your face/skin to www.imgur.com, instead of using walls of text to describe it to us. It may be the best thing you've ever done!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
                  As mentioned before, It Gets Worse Before It Gets Better, and this is not uncommon in medical treatments, such as in treating acne, which the Mayo Clinic states, "With most prescription acne drugs, you may not see results for four to eight weeks, and your skin may get worse before it gets better. It can take many months or years for your acne to clear up completely," or in immunotherapy.

                  While some medical treatments do improve a medical issue and it does NOT get worse before its gets better, in such treatments the issue just gets better, and of course, that is what is the ideal medical treatment, but in some cases it simply gets worse before it gets better. If you ever find a treatment for your rosacea that immediately improves your rosacea, we are all ears to learn about it.

                  Of course, if one has a very bad case of rosacea and the doctor prescribes high dose antibiotics, usually the rosacea improves. However, when antibiotic treatment stops, the rosacea usually returns with a vengeance, so obviously, while it does improve rosacea it certainly isn't curing it.

                  With Soolantra or the ZZ cream it takes twelve weeks for clearance but you should see improvement in four weeks.
                  do you recommend using it on the entire face or just the affected area? I prefer to only use it on my nose and apples of my cheeks because I'm very sensitive but if I do that then would it be effective?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rtstar View Post
                    do you recommend using it on the entire face or just the affected area? I prefer to only use it on my nose and apples of my cheeks because I'm very sensitive but if I do that then would it be effective?
                    Good question. Basically it depends on you. The mites move [1] so applying it all over the face makes sure you are making their surface area they may crawl to all the same. [2] Others prefer to just apply the ZZ cream to inflamed areas. Some dilute the cream with a little water so that it spreads further and easier and, of course, makes the ZZ cream last longer.

                    [1] Read the subheading, The report confirms the size and movement of demodex

                    [2] Why do demodex mites like human skin?
                    Last edited by Brady Barrows; 23 April 2020, 01:54 PM.
                    Brady Barrows
                    Blog - Join the RRDi


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by redvelvet View Post
                      It will be fine with the squalene oil, or a moisturizer. I would apply it to your whole face including your eyebrows, as mites tend to migrate. The flakey skin on your forehead (I'm sorry I was reading both questions- I believe that was you) should get better as well with the ZZ. I also water mine down by applying it to my wet face and dabbing the cream in spots, then rubbing it in everywhere. There is something extremely healing in the ZZ, maybe the Chinese herbs, but it really does change/improve the overall texture of your skin. Or perhaps in killing the demodex, your skin is able to heal. Die-off is good. The time frame is different for everyone. Unless you feel a sunburned or "sore" sensation, stick with it, and use at night before bed. Keep us posted.
                      Thank you for the reply and the tip about the eyebrows, I didn't even think of that! Do you use anything for your scalp/eyelashes? I haven't really had any issues there other than some light dandruff around the hairline (which I'm now guessing is probably mite related) but I'm a bit worried about them migrating there. I just did an apple cider vinegar rinse on my scalp in the shower and used some tea tree oil cleanser on my lash area so hopefully that helps? I don't have anything else on hand.

                      So I've been applying the diluted ZZ cream to my whole face and interestingly my forehead, which never had issues before, has broken out in quite a few bumps. I believe I'm having a die off reaction all over (at least I hope that's what it is) and my skin looks probably the worst it ever has. I can handle temporarily horrible skin but it is a little scary, I remember reading someone's posts here (I can't remember who now) who felt their skin was damaged by the ZZ cream and ended up worse than before and hadn't recovered even long term. I will stick with it but I did take last night off because the dryness was getting too much--is it ok to skip a night here and there? The texture of my skin has changed in an interesting way, it feels dry and tight but also somewhat smoother, softer and more tough almost--maybe it's just kind of leathery from being dry but it feels less fragile somehow. I usually have a lot of dead skin that balls up and rubs off in the shower but I don't seem to now. I'm not sure if that's just from the salicylic acid or if it's more than that. I am a bit sore, especially on my forehead, but that's also how it feels when it's dry so I'm not sure at what point I should be concerned. The overall redness has gone down a bit after taking the night off. I'm not sure if it's just my imagination but I feel like my skin overall looks a bit darker/muddier (I am naturally very pale). For what it's worth I did do a patch test to make sure I'm not allergic.

                      Editing to add: Ok, to be honest I am, despite myself, freaking out a bit. I know it gets worse before it gets better but is there a chance I could be making my skin worse long-term? Could I be having an increase in pustules from anything other than die off? It does really look like I'm having all the bumps and pustules that I would in several months all at once, so I guess I would have probably had them anyway, I'm just worrying about scarring or aggravating my rosacea to a worse stage and then not having it return to normal after stopping ZZ cream. Can anyone tell me if this is a founded fear?

                      A little bit more about my skin before: I wasn't actively trying to treat it but just using gentle skincare and trying to eat well (I admittedly drink a bit too much and probably sometimes have too much sugar). My flushing/general redness were a bit improved but I was starting to get more bumps that weren't huge but would linger for many weeks and leave red marks/never seemed to fully go away and would go down and reappear, though I would only ever have a few active spots at a time, usually on my cheeks. I'm 32 and a woman, if that's relevant. It might also be worth mentioning that I've had exfoliative cheilitis for most of my life, though I'm not sure if that's connected. It kind of feels like overall my skin (at least everywhere on my head) is just sheds/peels more than most people's seems to. I was also working with a naturopath for a possible systemic candida overgrowth before the quarantine started but that's kind of on hold for now. It feels to me like these things are probably all connected.

                      Sorry for a ton of information, I'm not really sure what's relevant or not and my anxiety is getting the best of me.
                      Last edited by anemicroyalty; 24 April 2020, 12:08 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Scarring is usually done because of popping pimples and damaging the skin by breaking the pustules. The consensus is to be careful when it comes to popping the pimples, not withstanding Dr. Pimple.

                        The possibility of 'aggravating my rosacea to a worse stage then not having it return to normal after stopping ZZ cream' is not very likely. Lets assume you were using Soolantra as ASordidGod has now switched to, after getting 'worse results' using the ZZ cream after a few days, or for that matter any patient who uses Soolantra and after a few days stops the treatment. Do you really think that stopping the Soolantra treatment that the face returns to 'normal' ?? Really?? If that was the case, everyone would have discovered that a long time ago. Take any treatment for rosacea and if it gets worse, then stop, and your skin goes back to normal.

                        If you mean, does using the ZZ cream damage your skin permanently in any way, there has never been any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that this has happened to anyone. Many have stopped using the ZZ cream, mainly because it gets worse before it gets better and they can't handle this and quit. The ones who stick it out usually see noticeable improvement in thirty days, and clearance in three to six months. The same is true with Soolantra. However, there are many in RF who feel the ZZ cream works better than Soolantra. Only you can know if you stick it out.

                        Brady


                        Originally posted by anemicroyalty View Post
                        Thank you for the reply and the tip about the eyebrows, I didn't even think of that! Do you use anything for your scalp/eyelashes? I haven't really had any issues there other than some light dandruff around the hairline (which I'm now guessing is probably mite related) but I'm a bit worried about them migrating there. I just did an apple cider vinegar rinse on my scalp in the shower and used some tea tree oil cleanser on my lash area so hopefully that helps? I don't have anything else on hand.

                        So I've been applying the diluted ZZ cream to my whole face and interestingly my forehead, which never had issues before, has broken out in quite a few bumps. I believe I'm having a die off reaction all over (at least I hope that's what it is) and my skin looks probably the worst it ever has. I can handle temporarily horrible skin but it is a little scary, I remember reading someone's posts here (I can't remember who now) who felt their skin was damaged by the ZZ cream and ended up worse than before and hadn't recovered even long term. I will stick with it but I did take last night off because the dryness was getting too much--is it ok to skip a night here and there? The texture of my skin has changed in an interesting way, it feels dry and tight but also somewhat smoother, softer and more tough almost--maybe it's just kind of leathery from being dry but it feels less fragile somehow. I usually have a lot of dead skin that balls up and rubs off in the shower but I don't seem to now. I'm not sure if that's just from the salicylic acid or if it's more than that. I am a bit sore, especially on my forehead, but that's also how it feels when it's dry so I'm not sure at what point I should be concerned. The overall redness has gone down a bit after taking the night off. I'm not sure if it's just my imagination but I feel like my skin overall looks a bit darker/muddier (I am naturally very pale). For what it's worth I did do a patch test to make sure I'm not allergic.

                        Editing to add: Ok, to be honest I am, despite myself, freaking out a bit. I know it gets worse before it gets better but is there a chance I could be making my skin worse long-term? Could I be having an increase in pustules from anything other than die off? It does really look like I'm having all the bumps and pustules that I would in several months all at once, so I guess I would have probably had them anyway, I'm just worrying about scarring or aggravating my rosacea to a worse stage and then not having it return to normal after stopping ZZ cream. Can anyone tell me if this is a founded fear?

                        A little bit more about my skin before: I wasn't actively trying to treat it but just using gentle skincare and trying to eat well (I admittedly drink a bit too much and probably sometimes have too much sugar). My flushing/general redness were a bit improved but I was starting to get more bumps that weren't huge but would linger for many weeks and leave red marks/never seemed to fully go away and would go down and reappear, though I would only ever have a few active spots at a time, usually on my cheeks. I'm 32 and a woman, if that's relevant. It might also be worth mentioning that I've had exfoliative cheilitis for most of my life, though I'm not sure if that's connected. It kind of feels like overall my skin (at least everywhere on my head) is just sheds/peels more than most people's seems to. I was also working with a naturopath for a possible systemic candida overgrowth before the quarantine started but that's kind of on hold for now. It feels to me like these things are probably all connected.

                        Sorry for a ton of information, I'm not really sure what's relevant or not and my anxiety is getting the best of me.
                        Brady Barrows
                        Blog - Join the RRDi


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
                          Scarring is usually done because of popping pimples and damaging the skin by breaking the pustules. The consensus is to be careful when it comes to popping the pimples, not withstanding Dr. Pimple.

                          The possibility of 'aggravating my rosacea to a worse stage then not having it return to normal after stopping ZZ cream' is not very likely. Lets assume you were using Soolantra as ASordidGod has now switched to, after getting 'worse results' using the ZZ cream after a few days, or for that matter any patient who uses Soolantra and after a few days stops the treatment. Do you really think that stopping the Soolantra treatment that the face returns to 'normal' ?? Really?? If that was the case, everyone would have discovered that a long time ago. Take any treatment for rosacea and if it gets worse, then stop, and your skin goes back to normal.

                          If you mean, does using the ZZ cream damage your skin permanently in any way, there has never been any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that this has happened to anyone. Many have stopped using the ZZ cream, mainly because it gets worse before it gets better and they can't handle this and quit. The ones who stick it out usually see noticeable improvement in thirty days, and clearance in three to six months. The same is true with Soolantra. However, there are many in RF who feel the ZZ cream works better than Soolantra. Only you can know if you stick it out.

                          Brady
                          Thanks for the reply and the reassurance. I'm feeling quite a bit better now--my redness and papules are still worse than baseline but not by that much, and my skin is feeling a lot more comfortable and hydrated, probably because I resumed using a hyaluronic acid serum that I stopped when I started ZZ cream. I'm eager to see what the next few weeks will bring.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
                            Good question. Basically it depends on you. The mites move [1] so applying it all over the face makes sure you are making their surface area they may crawl to all the same. [2] Others prefer to just apply the ZZ cream to inflamed areas. Some dilute the cream with a little water so that it spreads further and easier and, of course, makes the ZZ cream last longer.

                            [1] Read the subheading, The report confirms the size and movement of demodex

                            [2] Why do demodex mites like human skin?
                            Thank you so much, that clears things up. I think I will apply it to all oily areas but not where my cheeks have eczema. its too dry for a mite to survive there I think.

                            Comment


                            • #15
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