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Flakey Face

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  • #61
    Thanks. My hesitation is that it might cause a breakout where I try it, something with "barrier" in it's name sounds like it might not wash off easily with my Purpose facial wash.

    I'd rather have flakes than p&p. I'm just so tired of putting on makeup only to spend another 30 minutes with tweezers trying to lessen the appearance of flakes and white specks.


    • #62
      Oh man, i hear you with the tweezers! its a nightmare.

      Every morning and night i have to rub my face to get some of the flakes off. Only to have my face turn all red and blotchy and have me lay down in my basement for 30 mins for it to go back to normal.


      • #63
        I personally wouldn't be tempted by the Dermalogica. I have tried just about every moisturizer (I mean every kind - oil-free, oil-based, thick, thin, special formulations etc) with no results. They all break me out in spots after a few days. Dermalogica tend to be very expensive, with lots of fancy ingredients which are there to be name-checked but do little.

        I tried pure jojoba oil once, and it broke me out in the biggest spots you have ever seen. I think that, with the barrier being compromised, topicals tend to get where they're not supposed to (I don't have a more scientific explanation).

        At least in theory, if you create an artificial barrier with a moisturizer, it helps the skin in its own efforts. It stops a vicious cycle. But it seems that the problem lies elsewhere with us.


        • #64
          Originally posted by TheMediumDog View Post
          Reading the post on the National Rosacea Society grants to new research, the following caught my eye:

          Dr. Joseph Rothnagel, associate professor, and Dr. Manuela Trabi, adjunct lecturer, Department of Molecular and Microbial Sciences, The University of Queensland, Australia, were awarded $18,000 for their study, "The role of tissue kallikreins in rosacea." This study will also build from the work of Dr. Gallo and colleagues. They noted that these previous studies reported involvement of the enzyme hK5 and protein CAP18, and hypothesize that at least one other enzyme is also elevated in rosacea. They will study whether proteins known to be crucial for skin integrity are also digested at a higher than normal rate by these enzymes, allowing easier access for pathogens.

          (Forget the "...allowing easier access for pathogens" bit).

          I thought I had come across something along these lines before, and indeed a quick scan through PubMed revealed the following:

          Degradation of corneodesmosome proteins by two serine proteases of the kallikrein family, SCTE/KLK5/hK5 and SCCE/KLK7/hK7

          To translate (as far as I am able):

          At the outer layer, your skin barrier looks like a bricks-and-mortar structure. The bricks are called "corneocytes". The mortar is made out of a whole bunch of different cells, doing different jobs - some coat the outside of the corneocytes, some act like little velcro hooks, some do a bit of this and that; in total, they stick the corneocytes together into the strong elastic sheet which is the outer layer of your skin.

          In order for your skin to slough off and be renewed, what happens is that the cells that make up the 'sticky' mortar are degraded. Once degraded, they no longer hold together the corneocytes, and so the whole thing no longer has any cohesion or strength. Like an old wall where the mortar is crumbly.

          Now this degradation doesn't just happen. The body actively 'does' it. And it does so by producing a couple of other cells (or enzymes) which break down the various cells making up the mortar, until they can't do that job any more.

          Point is: these 'breaking down' cells are exactly the ones that have been postulated to be a crucial component of rosacea, because they're found in high levels in rosacea patients (the work of Dr Gallo).

          If this were true (and its a big if, because Dr Gallo's work on how these cells are responsible for rosacea is, like, 1 piece of a 1000-piece jigsaw) it would really help explain our symptoms, i.e. it would connect them up with the rosacea.

          Doesn't really help much in terms of treatment. (At least not immedietly). The thing to do would still be to reduce inflammation. But still...
          Very interesting...thanks for the summary TheMediumDog. Steps are certainly being made in explaining rosacea however there's still many unanswered questions. I'm currently of the feeling that any treatment based on inhibiting these enzymes and/or the cathelicidin might just be treating the symtoms and perhaps (just a guess) the inflammation might manifest itself in other ways.

          The thing i just can't get my head around is if our bodies are malfunctioning and over producing these proteins then why is it isolated only to the face? I still think it's likely are bodies inflammatory response working just fine but to a genuine issue.


          • #65
            Originally posted by Spav View Post
            The thing i just can't get my head around is if our bodies are malfunctioning and over producing these proteins then why is it isolated only to the face? I still think it's likely are bodies inflammatory response working just fine but to a genuine issue.
            Yes, I think that question - why just in the face? - is a good one. I've often wondered about it, not just in the context of Gallo's theory, but with any theory.

            The face does have some particular features. I believe the density/number of capillaries is far higher than elsewhere; you've got a higher concentration of sebaceous glands than elsewhere (which, incidentally, do a lot more than just produce sebum - they are involved in lots of control mechanisms); and I think the skin physiology might be a bit different.

            So, you know, you can kind of come up with an explanation - maybe there isn't enough 'juice' in other parts of the body to get a really good vicious inflammatory circle going or something.

            Still, there's a residual feeling that you'd get some rosace-type symptoms elsewhere...

            And yes, more generally, I agree that it is all still very open. Gallo himself says somewhere "This is just the start". I think we're best off plugging away with our hit-and-miss 'slap it on; gulp it down; see if it does anything' approach.


            • #66
              EK1 (and others of course)

              I too am trying La Roche Posay Products-Toleriane line . I wondered what products of theirs you are using ?

              I have a problem with dry/flaky skin not oily but most moisturizers are either irritating or block my pores.

              What was recommended to me by La Roche Posay was their toleriane soap.....I have now used this 2x a day for the past week and have not had further drying...I think so far so good.

              For moisturizer I am using LRP toleriane fluide--and this too I seem to like alot so is a moisturizer that goes on thinnish but it is there and my skin feels smoother and less flakey--I think. Again, this routine has just been one week. I did buy their spray thermal water--which I also use...but I am a little dubious about its effect. Yet, my tap water can irritate my skin so, I thought maybe the LRP could sort of neutralize the effects of our lousy water.

              I am 2 wks past my 5th V Beam and needed to try to take extra special care of my skin now. That's why I tried LRP.....I really do not like the cetaphil gentle cleanser or moisturizer and wasn't keen on some cerave ingredients.

              As my rosacea recently took a turn for the worse --about a month ago, my derm scripted oracea . When she saw me 2 wks ago she said double the oracea to 2x a day. And, scripted plexion generic....I am going to have it filled with rosanil I think as it is supposed to be quite gentle of the sulfacetamide/sulfur group..or at least that is what I believe I have read. I don't want to start the rosanil until a mo. after the Vbeam.

              ------How is your experience going with the alternate night use of clarifoam? Do you know if clarifoam might be better for me than the rosanil? The dr. didn't identify a generic of plexion...just let me and the pharmacist work it out..I think that is odd.

              ps--for what it is worth I am one of those people on high vit d--4,000IU /day for the past several years...I started it for my bones and an autoimmune disease seems the buzz here about its use for rosacea.
              Senior Member
              Last edited by roz; 25 June 2009, 04:38 PM.


              • #67
                I just use the toleriane cleanser... doesnt really seem to help the flakes either way.

                The clarifoam is going good... it's taking longer i think to see effects because i only use it every 2nd night (sometimes i skip a few more days in between, i never use it on a night that i feel my skin is irritated). Anyways, so smoother skin and today and yesterday i feel like there is less flakes. Still there, mind you. It's been close to 4 weeks on it. I will continue using it as i can only see with more time i should have more improvement. For me clarifoam isnt irritating on my skin, the only thing is it is drying, which is why i wash it off.

                I would do a search on the forum for rosanil. I've never used it.


                • #68
                  I had flaky skin all over my face for 7 or 8 years. It began with the rosacea at about age 30, but didn't seem to change with flareups. Moisturizer and jojoba oil had a limited effect - it would cover it for a few hours, and then I'd look in a mirror and be mortified. At the office, I would end up in the bathroom picking the worst of it off my face at least a half dozen times a day. Exfoliating, either with creams or wash cloth, did not help.

                  I know many of you will immediately dismiss this as too "mainstream" to possibly help you, but for what it's worth, the big change happened for me when I started using my wife's Suave Moisturizing Body Wash on my face in the shower with warm water. My skin tolerates it very well and I am virtually flake-free (one or two little ones in a week, maybe). My wife uses Cetaphil on her face, and if I happen to be out of the Suave, I use that - and the flakes always come back.

                  Your experience may vary

                  1,000mg Solgar MSM
                  25mg diphenhydramine
                  Rosacea Care moisturizer, tinted ZincO
                  I avoid multi-vitamins and most other high-dose vitamins and supplements, oil-based supplements (like omega 3/6, A, and E), nitrite preservatives, sugar, fruit, milk, exercising in a warm room

                  Less is more!


                  • #69

                    Was that the Toleraine Dermo or Foaming Cleanser that you decided on? The reason I ask is that while I do like the Toleraine soap , if I wear makeup I will need something more.
                    While my skin is dry---I am worried about using the dermo cream cleanser because people say it leaves a film....I think that might be bad for seb derm. On the other hand I am leaning towards the Foaming Cleanser which really isn't for dry skin but...I am hoping that it won't be too drying if just used now and then.



                    • #70
                      I'm in my mid-20s, like genericposter. I've had facial flakiness and redness for so long I can't even remember which came first. My previous dermatologist, for what her opinion is worth, said it was sebhorreic dermatitis, and suggested using a small amount of dandruff shampoo after I've cleansed. It helps the flakiness tremendously, and it doesn't seem to affect my redness too significantly.

                      I've been mostly using pyrithione (sp?) zinc shampoos, since perhaps by some off chance, that form of zinc might also help my rosacea. It hasn't done so noticeably, but perhaps it improves the redness that the shampoo would otherwise cause b/c of irritation or whatever.


                      • #71
                        I have noticed something interesting with my flakey face--mainly between eyebrows and middle of forehead. When I take my accutane regularly it goes away. I thought it was due to having dry skin but if the tane helps I would think it is more seb derm related??

                        Weird bit is I don't really get redness in these areas just flaking skin....


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by valby View Post
                          I have noticed something interesting with my flakey face--mainly between eyebrows and middle of forehead. When I take my accutane regularly it goes away. I thought it was due to having dry skin but if the tane helps I would think it is more seb derm related??

                          Weird bit is I don't really get redness in these areas just flaking skin....
                          Do you think it could be through the anti-inflammatory effect of 'tane?

                          The lack of redness might just be due to the thickness of the, you know, the inflamed vessels don't 'show' at that point.

                          Is it just this one area? Is it possible that this is the only area where it is sufficiently noticeable?


                          • #73
                            Just wondering, could the flaking by any chance be caused by demodex mites? I'm not sure whether to believe in these mites and their link with rosacea or not.


                            • #74

                              Also i went to my derm yesterday and he said that whole face flaking that we have is not seb derm....

                              Now how do we fix it?!? I seriously spent 30 mins rubbing my face this morning to get flakes off. Of course, i got a bunch off but they just kept on coming. I could have continued for longer but i thought it was enough. It;s like the flakes dont ever stop coming.


                              • #75
                                I have found that if I rub it only makes the flaking worse - like a rebound effect. No matter how lightly I brush my fingers or a soft damp cloth over my face to remove flakes, the flaking only returns worse than before.
                                Moisturizers also only make the flakiness worse, like they're causing more sebum to form underneath them.
                                I am about ready to give up finding a solution. I only wash with distilled water, at a set temperature and use a mild cleanser and light metrolotion (patted, not rubbed) when needed. If I wear no metrolotion the flaking seems to also get worse, but if I use it too often then it causes breakouts.
                                I do know that after any episode of flushing, my flakiness will be absolutely horrible. I think it's because there must be some swelling involved when flushing and that causes the skin to break down even more?