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  • snuffleupagus
    replied
    I just use the toleriane cleanser... doesnt really seem to help the flakes either way.

    The clarifoam is going good... it's taking longer i think to see effects because i only use it every 2nd night (sometimes i skip a few more days in between, i never use it on a night that i feel my skin is irritated). Anyways, so smoother skin and today and yesterday i feel like there is less flakes. Still there, mind you. It's been close to 4 weeks on it. I will continue using it as i can only see with more time i should have more improvement. For me clarifoam isnt irritating on my skin, the only thing is it is drying, which is why i wash it off.

    I would do a search on the forum for rosanil. I've never used it.

    Leave a comment:


  • roz
    replied
    EK1 (and others of course)

    I too am trying La Roche Posay Products-Toleriane line . I wondered what products of theirs you are using ?

    I have a problem with dry/flaky skin not oily but most moisturizers are either irritating or block my pores.

    What was recommended to me by La Roche Posay was their toleriane soap.....I have now used this 2x a day for the past week and have not had further drying...I think so far so good.

    For moisturizer I am using LRP toleriane fluide--and this too I seem to like alot so far...it is a moisturizer that goes on thinnish but it is there and my skin feels smoother and less flakey--I think. Again, this routine has just been one week. I did buy their spray thermal water--which I also use...but I am a little dubious about its effect. Yet, my tap water can irritate my skin so, I thought maybe the LRP could sort of neutralize the effects of our lousy water.

    I am 2 wks past my 5th V Beam and needed to try to take extra special care of my skin now. That's why I tried LRP.....I really do not like the cetaphil gentle cleanser or moisturizer and wasn't keen on some cerave ingredients.

    As my rosacea recently took a turn for the worse --about a month ago, my derm scripted oracea . When she saw me 2 wks ago she said double the oracea to 2x a day. And, scripted plexion generic....I am going to have it filled with rosanil I think as it is supposed to be quite gentle of the sulfacetamide/sulfur group..or at least that is what I believe I have read. I don't want to start the rosanil until a mo. after the Vbeam.

    ------How is your experience going with the alternate night use of clarifoam? Do you know if clarifoam might be better for me than the rosanil? The dr. didn't identify a generic of plexion...just let me and the pharmacist work it out..I think that is odd.
    Roz

    ps--for what it is worth I am one of those people on high vit d--4,000IU /day for the past several years...I started it for my bones and an autoimmune disease but..it seems the buzz here about its use for rosacea.
    Last edited by roz; 25 June 2009, 04:38 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheMediumDog
    replied
    Originally posted by Spav View Post
    The thing i just can't get my head around is if our bodies are malfunctioning and over producing these proteins then why is it isolated only to the face? I still think it's likely are bodies inflammatory response working just fine but to a genuine issue.
    Yes, I think that question - why just in the face? - is a good one. I've often wondered about it, not just in the context of Gallo's theory, but with any theory.

    The face does have some particular features. I believe the density/number of capillaries is far higher than elsewhere; you've got a higher concentration of sebaceous glands than elsewhere (which, incidentally, do a lot more than just produce sebum - they are involved in lots of control mechanisms); and I think the skin physiology might be a bit different.

    So, you know, you can kind of come up with an explanation - maybe there isn't enough 'juice' in other parts of the body to get a really good vicious inflammatory circle going or something.

    Still, there's a residual feeling that you'd get some rosace-type symptoms elsewhere...

    And yes, more generally, I agree that it is all still very open. Gallo himself says somewhere "This is just the start". I think we're best off plugging away with our hit-and-miss 'slap it on; gulp it down; see if it does anything' approach.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spav
    replied
    Originally posted by TheMediumDog View Post
    Reading the post on the National Rosacea Society grants to new research, the following caught my eye:

    Dr. Joseph Rothnagel, associate professor, and Dr. Manuela Trabi, adjunct lecturer, Department of Molecular and Microbial Sciences, The University of Queensland, Australia, were awarded $18,000 for their study, "The role of tissue kallikreins in rosacea." This study will also build from the work of Dr. Gallo and colleagues. They noted that these previous studies reported involvement of the enzyme hK5 and protein CAP18, and hypothesize that at least one other enzyme is also elevated in rosacea. They will study whether proteins known to be crucial for skin integrity are also digested at a higher than normal rate by these enzymes, allowing easier access for pathogens.

    (Forget the "...allowing easier access for pathogens" bit).

    I thought I had come across something along these lines before, and indeed a quick scan through PubMed revealed the following:

    Degradation of corneodesmosome proteins by two serine proteases of the kallikrein family, SCTE/KLK5/hK5 and SCCE/KLK7/hK7


    To translate (as far as I am able):

    At the outer layer, your skin barrier looks like a bricks-and-mortar structure. The bricks are called "corneocytes". The mortar is made out of a whole bunch of different cells, doing different jobs - some coat the outside of the corneocytes, some act like little velcro hooks, some do a bit of this and that; in total, they stick the corneocytes together into the strong elastic sheet which is the outer layer of your skin.

    In order for your skin to slough off and be renewed, what happens is that the cells that make up the 'sticky' mortar are degraded. Once degraded, they no longer hold together the corneocytes, and so the whole thing no longer has any cohesion or strength. Like an old wall where the mortar is crumbly.

    Now this degradation doesn't just happen. The body actively 'does' it. And it does so by producing a couple of other cells (or enzymes) which break down the various cells making up the mortar, until they can't do that job any more.

    Point is: these 'breaking down' cells are exactly the ones that have been postulated to be a crucial component of rosacea, because they're found in high levels in rosacea patients (the work of Dr Gallo).

    If this were true (and its a big if, because Dr Gallo's work on how these cells are responsible for rosacea is, like, 1 piece of a 1000-piece jigsaw) it would really help explain our symptoms, i.e. it would connect them up with the rosacea.

    Doesn't really help much in terms of treatment. (At least not immedietly). The thing to do would still be to reduce inflammation. But still...
    Very interesting...thanks for the summary TheMediumDog. Steps are certainly being made in explaining rosacea however there's still many unanswered questions. I'm currently of the feeling that any treatment based on inhibiting these enzymes and/or the cathelicidin might just be treating the symtoms and perhaps (just a guess) the inflammation might manifest itself in other ways.

    The thing i just can't get my head around is if our bodies are malfunctioning and over producing these proteins then why is it isolated only to the face? I still think it's likely are bodies inflammatory response working just fine but to a genuine issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheMediumDog
    replied
    I personally wouldn't be tempted by the Dermalogica. I have tried just about every moisturizer (I mean every kind - oil-free, oil-based, thick, thin, special formulations etc) with no results. They all break me out in spots after a few days. Dermalogica tend to be very expensive, with lots of fancy ingredients which are there to be name-checked but do little.

    I tried pure jojoba oil once, and it broke me out in the biggest spots you have ever seen. I think that, with the barrier being compromised, topicals tend to get where they're not supposed to (I don't have a more scientific explanation).

    At least in theory, if you create an artificial barrier with a moisturizer, it helps the skin in its own efforts. It stops a vicious cycle. But it seems that the problem lies elsewhere with us.

    Leave a comment:


  • snuffleupagus
    replied
    Oh man, i hear you with the tweezers! its a nightmare.

    Every morning and night i have to rub my face to get some of the flakes off. Only to have my face turn all red and blotchy and have me lay down in my basement for 30 mins for it to go back to normal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denisefh
    replied
    Thanks. My hesitation is that it might cause a breakout where I try it, something with "barrier" in it's name sounds like it might not wash off easily with my Purpose facial wash.

    I'd rather have flakes than p&p. I'm just so tired of putting on makeup only to spend another 30 minutes with tweezers trying to lessen the appearance of flakes and white specks.

    Leave a comment:


  • GJ
    replied
    Originally posted by Denisefh View Post
    A friend of mine told me to try Dermalogica (sp?) Barrier Repair, has anyone tried this?

    I don't have flaky skin but I have tried this. Once applied it feels unlike any other moisturiser I have used - strangely velvety. (I will not raise hopes and say that it felt like it formed an artificial skin - perhaps allowing the natural structures beneath a chance to heal - because it didn't but a scintilla of something along those lines might have been going on.)

    It didn't irritate. If you are running out of options its very differentness might make this a worthwhile gamble.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denisefh
    replied
    I have the same problem as everyone else. My flakiness seems to get worse after any flushing, which unfortunately for me is often (even if I just bend over to pick something up it will cause me to flush). Not washing causes buildup and then the flakiness is worse. Surprisingly, moisturizers (the few I've found that don't break me out) will actually cause the flakiness to worsen! I've tried just about every one, including naturals such as Emu oil.

    I take Clonidine twice a day, so that for sure doesn't help flakes. (I also use Metrolotion sparingly once a day). I wash with Purpose liquid twice a day. If I wash less often the flakes will build up. If I rub my face even with my fingers and water, or use a soft cloth to remove the flakes gently - then the flakiness seems to worsen.

    I HAVE to wear makeup because I get so red so frequently, but the makeup only seems to make the flakes appear more prominent. It's very frustrating.

    A friend of mine told me to try Dermalogica (sp?) Barrier Repair, has anyone tried this?

    Leave a comment:


  • Stuzz78
    replied
    Like genericposter, I've just singed up after reading this thread.

    A lot of this all sounds very familiar to me:

    - General redness around chin, cheeks, forehead (less so), nose. Generally more severe around the sides of the nose
    - Initial flaky (dry) white skin around above areas when flare-ups occur.
    - As another poster mentioned the flakes aren't largely noticeable until I rub a finger over my face (or push with the tip of a fingernail), which makes large flakes or skin appear, and fall off.
    - After a few days into a flare-up the flakiness settles down, but there's is effectively another layer onto of my regular skin. More so around the sides of the nose, and it has a yellowy appearance.

    I guess it's nice to see other with the same/similar issues, but after reading thru all of this thread, it's unfortunately that there aren't any solutions to any of this

    Regarding the yellowing layer of skin, I've been led to believe that the yellowy appearance is actually due to pus in addition to the flaky white skin. In my case, they seem to mix together to create quite a hard crusty barrier (kind of like a light-duty scab).

    With that, does anyone have a suggestion of what to do about it? On one hand I think that my skin is fairly smart, and there's a good reason for it to be there, so I should just let it be and have it go away when it naturally wants to. On the other hand I think that all these Rosacea symptoms are the skin's 'incorrect' reaction to the Rosacea, and I should remove the quite unsightly, almost scale-like yellow flakes myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • snuffleupagus
    replied
    Also, perhaps the antimalarial would be effective for us? It could also potentially help flaking, as well as pustules if it also has anti-inflammatory properties. Still don't get how it helps flushing but if it does, i'll take it!

    Leave a comment:


  • snuffleupagus
    replied
    Yeah i wanna try it, but at the same time, im worried about side effects. Flushing is a big concern for me. But at the same time, maybe it would help all the flaking. I think if i do go down that route i will work on some lasers or something first for the flushing because you cant do lasers while on accutane.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheMediumDog
    replied
    Originally posted by EK1 View Post
    THeMediumDog - were you talking about trying accutane or the antimalarial? Also, what dose accutane (if it was that).
    Accutane. 5mg 2 times per week, then 10mg 2 times per week, then 20mg 2 times per week. I started noticing the symptoms at 10mg, but they were present (in retrospect) at 5mg. My derm wants me to try again, keeping the dose very low. I may.

    Leave a comment:


  • snuffleupagus
    replied
    THeMediumDog - were you talking about trying accutane or the antimalarial? Also, what dose accutane (if it was that)

    Clonidine helped me go less red, but didn't seem to stop the flushes. However when i was not flushing i was constantly blotchy looking. I never really went back to a baseline pale, which i can without the clonidine.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheMediumDog
    replied
    Reading the post on the National Rosacea Society grants to new research, the following caught my eye:

    Dr. Joseph Rothnagel, associate professor, and Dr. Manuela Trabi, adjunct lecturer, Department of Molecular and Microbial Sciences, The University of Queensland, Australia, were awarded $18,000 for their study, "The role of tissue kallikreins in rosacea." This study will also build from the work of Dr. Gallo and colleagues. They noted that these previous studies reported involvement of the enzyme hK5 and protein CAP18, and hypothesize that at least one other enzyme is also elevated in rosacea. They will study whether proteins known to be crucial for skin integrity are also digested at a higher than normal rate by these enzymes, allowing easier access for pathogens.

    (Forget the "...allowing easier access for pathogens" bit).

    I thought I had come across something along these lines before, and indeed a quick scan through PubMed revealed the following:

    Degradation of corneodesmosome proteins by two serine proteases of the kallikrein family, SCTE/KLK5/hK5 and SCCE/KLK7/hK7


    To translate (as far as I am able):

    At the outer layer, your skin barrier looks like a bricks-and-mortar structure. The bricks are called "corneocytes". The mortar is made out of a whole bunch of different cells, doing different jobs - some coat the outside of the corneocytes, some act like little velcro hooks, some do a bit of this and that; in total, they stick the corneocytes together into the strong elastic sheet which is the outer layer of your skin.

    In order for your skin to slough off and be renewed, what happens is that the cells that make up the 'sticky' mortar are degraded. Once degraded, they no longer hold together the corneocytes, and so the whole thing no longer has any cohesion or strength. Like an old wall where the mortar is crumbly.

    Now this degradation doesn't just happen. The body actively 'does' it. And it does so by producing a couple of other cells (or enzymes) which break down the various cells making up the mortar, until they can't do that job any more.

    Point is: these 'breaking down' cells are exactly the ones that have been postulated to be a crucial component of rosacea, because they're found in high levels in rosacea patients (the work of Dr Gallo).

    If this were true (and its a big if, because Dr Gallo's work on how these cells are responsible for rosacea is, like, 1 piece of a 1000-piece jigsaw) it would really help explain our symptoms, i.e. it would connect them up with the rosacea.

    Doesn't really help much in terms of treatment. (At least not immedietly). The thing to do would still be to reduce inflammation. But still...

    Leave a comment:

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