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The importance of Oleic Acid in worsening Seborrheic dermatitis

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  • The importance of Oleic Acid in worsening Seborrheic dermatitis

    After reading the recent study commissioned by Procter & Gamble it is clear how crucial the role of Oleic acid is in causing/worsening seb derm.

    Three Etiologic Facets of Dandruff and Seborrheic Dermatitis: Malassezia Fungi, Sebaceous Lipids, and Individual Sensitivity:
    http://www.nature.com/jidsp/journal/.../5640230a.html
    Journal of Investigative Dermatology Symposium Proceedings (2005) 10, 295–297; doi:10.1111/j.1087-0024.2005.10119.x
    The Procter & Gamble Company, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA


    This, I believe, is quite important since many of us sufferers use Jojoba oil daily. So it wasn't as surprise when I looked up Jojoba oil's properties to find that it contains approx. 10% of Oleic acid. Olive oil has 55-80% Oleic acid; Grape Seed and Sea Buckthorn Oil 15-20%; and almost all nut oils (eg Hazelnut oil).

    [From Wikipedia]The Malassezia globosa fungus metabolizes triglycerides present in sebum by the expression of lipase, resulting in a lipid byproduct oleic acid (OA). Penetration by OA of the top layer of the epidermis, the stratum corneum, results in an inflammatory response in susceptible persons which disturbs homeostasis and results in erratic cleavage of stratum corneum cells.[end]

    So the more Oleic acid present on the skin the more harm it causes to the region; this then encourages an inflammatory response causing skin flaking (Dandruff) and over production of sebum which is what the Malassezia fungus loves feeding on. Thus a vicious circile is created.

    I think seb derm sufferers need to tackles the disease from two angles. Firstly, annihilate the Malassezia fungus using anti-fungals eg Nizoral, Zinc Pyrthione, Selenium Sulphide, Tar etc.. Secondly, reduce the amount of Oleic acid on the skin, I'm going to try stopping the use of Jojoba oil as my face wash and instead find a 'better' alternative.

    The only problem is I'm not sure there are many oils that are as good as Jojoba at cleaning but don't have Oleic acid or are odour free.

  • #2
    Bradely

    Thankyou for the post, very interesting. I cant go anywhere near jojoba oil as it does indeed make my seb derm go haywire.

    Comment


    • #3
      Very interesting.

      I keep asking my derm if there is any way my "rashes" are seb derm, or have a fungal/yeast component. She keeps telling me no, but I did have an increase in my rash when I tried jojoba oil, and recently when I tried ZincO. My derm thought it was probably from the beeswax, but it does have olive oil in it as well.

      I'll have to keep an eye out for this and just keep it in the back of my mind.

      ~J

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      • #4
        Thanks

        Thanks for this article, it was another piece in the seb derm puzzle. I am still convinced that there is another angle to seb derm, I don't use products that would cause an increase in Oleic Acid and have tried every anti-fungal known to mankind including a number of oral ones...no luck at all.
        "Get busy living or get busy dying."

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        • #5
          My use of jojoba oil helped my seb derm, but I did not leave it on my skin. It just stayed on for a minute or less before I washed it off.

          Lately, for no other reason than I ran out of jojoba oil, I've been using Vitamin E oil from Trader Joe's, which has soybean oil, Vitamin E oil, and coconut oil. I use the same method of washing it off. It helps exfoliate. If I leave oil on my skin, then I'll break out.

          Maybe mineral oil could be a substitute, but it is a petroleum byproduct.

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          • #6
            Now this is confusing, as I have been using Seabuckthorn Oil for three years and it really
            helps to control my seb derm.

            I also use the zz cream, but I was on the oil two years already when I did, so I know it
            was having a great benefit independently of the zz.

            Beth

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            • #7
              Maybe the problem isn't actually the Malassezia globosa fungus because apparently (a school of thought says) even non-seb derm sufferers have the same amount of fungus as us; the way we differ is how our skin reacts to this fungus. It seems our immune system over-reacts locally causing inflammation and redness in the area. So if only there was a potent anti-inflammatory that didn't have the side-effects of steroids...I've searched high and low and have literally tried every thing known to mankind but nadda...nothing works on a consistent basis. I think that my seb derm and rosacea are so intertwined that when something works for one condition it completely worsens the other.

              But strikes me though about the Procter & Gamble study is that it claims that seb derm sufferers' skin are highly sensitive to Oleic acid. Products with Oleic acid have been used, benefitically, for centuries by all walks of life without a problem so maybe our skin has been 'coded' poorly. I wonder if there is a way to rebuild the skin and strengthen it to become accustomed to OA?

              Originally posted by bethanne
              Now this is confusing, as I have been using Seabuckthorn Oil for three years and it really
              helps to control my seb derm.
              Beth, it's quite funny you've posted about Seabuckthorn as I have just finished reading through this oil and was going to post on the forum asking whether anyone had used it for Rosacea/Seb derm. The properties of the oil claim it contains at least 7% or so of Oleic acid (the stuff that isn't too good for the skin).

              I found this quite interesting article on Rosacea and Sea Buckthorn as one of the first results thrown up by google when I typed "Seabucktorn": http://seabuckthorn.com/ROSACEASBT.PDF

              The PDF is quite interesting yet it seems to claim too much making me feel a bit skeptical. I highly doubt that the only two cures for Rosacea are "Lasers and Sea Buckthorn", for starters lasers don't even cure.

              Here's the one on dermatitis and Sea Buckthorn:
              http://seabuckthorn.com/files/Dermatitis.pdf

              I'm going to have to do a little more research before I start thinking about trying out some.

              I'm surprised that the forum search didn't throw up much on Sea Buckthorn so, if it's okay, I will open a thread in the topicals area as well because the non-seb derm sufferers who have rosacea may not check this section.

              EDIT: Oops there does seem to be a thread already: http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosa...204#post181204
              Last edited by Bradley; 9 June 2008, 11:56 PM.

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              • #8
                There is another X-Factor they don't seem to cover in the report

                All subjects used a Head&Shoulders type (PtZ) shampoo for 3 weeks prior
                and throughout the testing except for 72 hours.

                People will respond differently to using that shampoo, especially for an entire month, and this could have been more of an influence on flakes than the OA.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by man_from_mars View Post
                  There is another X-Factor they don't seem to cover in the report

                  All subjects used a Head&Shoulders type (PtZ) shampoo for 3 weeks prior
                  and throughout the testing except for 72 hours.

                  People will respond differently to using that shampoo, especially for an entire month, and this could have been more of an influence on flakes than the OA.
                  "Get busy living or get busy dying."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm not convinced that Oleic acid is bad for your seb derm... I have seen multiple posts where peple have said jojoba oil and emu oil, which both are made up of Oleic acid, have been beneficial to their seborrheic dermatitis..

                    I have been using emu oil for 2 weeks now and it has helped my dry skin... and it has not harmed it in any way.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Along this train of thought

                      Originally posted by Bradley View Post
                      Maybe the problem isn't actually the Malassezia globosa fungus because apparently (a school of thought says) even non-seb derm sufferers have the same amount of fungus as us; the way we differ is how our skin reacts to this fungus. It seems our immune system over-reacts locally causing inflammation and redness in the area. So if only there was a potent anti-inflammatory that didn't have the side-effects of steroids...I've searched high and low and have literally tried every thing known to mankind but nadda...nothing works on a consistent basis. I think that my seb derm and rosacea are so intertwined that when something works for one condition it completely worsens the other.
                      In addition to being anti-inflammatory steroids such as cortisone alter the body's natural immune system response. It is possible that people with seb derm have an immune system glitch in relation to M. Globosa (scalp) and M. furfur (facial skin) yeasts. Suppression of the immune system may explain their efficacy in treating the disorder.
                      "Get busy living or get busy dying."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I wonder would that explain any positive effects of antibiotics on sebderm ie. the antiinflammatory components kicking in?
                        Most dermatologists who've seen me - and I've been lucky in that I've seen some very good ones - seem to think that most of my skin problems are seb derm rather than rosacea.
                        I've never been able to work out why, in that case, antiobiotics improve my skin, since in theory they should make seb derm worse. Do any other sebdermers here improve with antiobiotics?

                        Neil

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well

                          Originally posted by indian_boy View Post
                          I wonder would that explain any positive effects of antibiotics on sebderm ie. the antiinflammatory components kicking in?
                          Most dermatologists who've seen me - and I've been lucky in that I've seen some very good ones - seem to think that most of my skin problems are seb derm rather than rosacea.
                          I've never been able to work out why, in that case, antiobiotics improve my skin, since in theory they should make seb derm worse. Do any other sebdermers here improve with antiobiotics?

                          Neil
                          Certain antibiotics: Clarithromycin, Azithromycin and Floxacin all made by seb derm flare really bad. Tetracyclines appear to have no effect on it at all.
                          "Get busy living or get busy dying."

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                          • #14
                            This is interesting. I don't usually have a problem with seb derm. Just a tiny bit of it that is less than a quarter of the size of my baby finger nail and that goes away with Born to be Mild. But the last two days I've noticed that my skin is very dry. I'm using an oily skin moisturizer and I figured that it was probably drying my skin out so until I could do the research on a better moisturizer and go to the drug store and get it, I just used some of my spray moisturizer for the rest of my body - which is basically a few different types of antioxidant oils and what looks like a silicone. I bought the new moisturizer last night, but used the oil for two days. Today I have a scaly patch of red bumpy things on the side of my nose that is about the size of the fingernail on my ring finger. All of those oils that I used were high in oleic acid and I wonder now if this is the cause.

                            Oh well, time to step up the Born to be Mild.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Jojoba oil bad for eyes

                              Hi All,

                              I haven't been writing here for a while, but was very interested in reading about the problems that can be caused by jojoba oil.

                              I have tried jojoba oil a few months ago for my P&P (rosacea) and Seb Derm.
                              The result after 2 weeks was that my skin became very smooth and soft on the P&P point, but on the Seb Derm point my skin became worse.
                              I had to stop the jojoba oil because my eyes were very very irritated.
                              So I think that oleic acid has a bad influence on blefaritus and ocular rosacea too.

                              Saskia

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