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  • Karla
    replied
    Hi Irishgenes,

    Wow! Just found this thread, haven't been on this forum in so long! Thank you for posting in such detail. I've been using LifeFlo Progesterone cream for several years now for PMS but it's not really enough now, can tell that my other hormones are a little out, I'm 41, never had children and really starting to see changes.

    What blood tests did you have done in order to get the prescription? I have a packet from the Women's Intl'l you mentioned and was just saying to a friend yesterday that I've got to dig it out and contact them. How helpful was your local doctor or did you go to someone recommened by them? I can get free blood tests at a local clinic but only for the hormones related to fertility, progesterone & the LH's, but can pay a very reasonable fee for additional hormones such as estrogen, but arent' there more than one estrogens that need to be tested? It's been over a year since I read the last book, which was by Suzanne Sommers, but she recommend oral and I still hadn't felt completely comfortable w/that route having read that it's hard on the liver and doesn't stay in the blood stream as long as transdermal application. About 6 years ago read the "What your Dr Wont Tell you about Menoupause" and the "Perimenopause" which directs just to progesterone cream. They state that it could help w/rosacea, but it never did for me, however, your info on the estrogen is very exciting. I typically flush around 2-3pm and often in the evening if I have beer or wine, so maybe my estrogen is overall getting so low it can't recoupe by the evening enough to combat a trigger.

    Did you have redness & flushing? I remember your posts about occular. Just wondered if the estrogen helps w/redness or flushing from triggers.

    Thank you again, so much, for posting all your info and giving me the boost to get going w/this program. So glad to hear you've achieved remission too!!! All the best,

    Karla

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  • irishgenes
    replied
    No, I live in the US, not the UK. Does he write books? It's really not that complicated, but while you are figuring out your dose, you just need to keep records. Then you usually won't need to change by more than .05 mg. at a time. You can tell if you need a little more by the start of your deficiency symptoms, and if you need a little less by breast soreness and water weight gain. It's sort of the same thing that diabetics learn to do with insulin. I would just give anything if someone would invent an estrogen meter. I suppose the diabetic glucometer machines would work if there were just some kind of estrogen strips that could be inserted into the machines instead of glucose strips. I won't hold my breath for that, though!

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  • Ajay
    replied
    It sounds very complicated but i guess you get the hang of it after a while, It will be a life saver for me. Have you heard of DR bond at all?

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  • irishgenes
    replied
    Glad to help. Yes, the estogen levels that dip at 3-4 PM usually start to climb back in the comfort zone around 6 PM. I just want to emphasize for anyone who may ever read this, the difference between no symptoms and "too much" or "too little" is incredibly tiny----.05 mg. estradiol! For example, Estrace pills come in .5 mg. and 1 mg. sizes. If your doctor raises you from .5 mg. to 1 mg. because you are still having hot flushes, you may get extremely painful breasts and bloat at 1 mg. and give up. He has raised you by .5 mg., which is 10 X the jump I recommend. Your best dose may be .55, .6 or .75 mg.

    My best dose now happens to be .75 mg, but it changes. The dosage you need may stay the same for a long time, or it can change on a week to week or even daily basis depending on diet, exercise, stress, etc. The only way you can get these tiny dose differences that I know of is gel or cream. Gel or cream also acts more like your own body by releasing more steadily and as you need it. The rings and patches also release steadily, but the dose can't be adjusted except in large increments. If you are stuck with pills, you could try quartering the .5 mg. pills into .125 mg. per quarter, but even that might be too much or too little. Most likely, though, you could get by with raising and lowering by that much.

    Another thing is that the dose does not have to be raised or lowered over long time periods. I have had doctors in the past tell me to "give it time", like several months, to "adjust" to a dose. My symptoms of deficiency can be so severe that there is no way I can endure a long wait trying to "adjust" to some doctor's idea of what my body needs. There is also no way he can know sitting in his office how I am feeling on a day to day basis. A really good doctor like Uzzi Reiss understands this. Get his book "Natural Hormone Balance for Women"--it is a step-by-step explanation of exactly what, why, when, where, and how! While getting to my current dose, I tried a dose for a day, and if it didn't work, I would increase by .05 mg. the very next day. With estrone, I increased by .5 mg. at a time, since it is weaker and much less likely to cause breast pain.

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  • Ajay
    replied
    For months and months i have been saying yto my husband I can't understand why I get so hot and flushy nearly every day between 4.30pm and 6.00pm now i know. This site is so fantastic and so full of great people with answers.I have known for ages that my rosacea is hormone driven and have thought about going to see a Dr Bond here in the uk as I don't want conventional HRT now I really will.Thankyou all so much

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  • irishgenes
    replied
    I probably shouldn't say that bioidentical estrogen gel has "cured" my rosacea. I still have the gene, and rosacea is still lurking. I should say it is being well-controlled to the point of being gone nearly all the time. The only time I have any problem with it is once in a while at 3 PM (an estrogen dip time every day), I will start to get dry eyes and itchy, scaley eyelids. Strangely enough, that is the first symptom of rosacea that I ever had, back when I was in my late 30's and my estrogen first started to decline. I didn't realize it was rosacea and didn't even know that my eyelids were flushing. I thought I had a make-up allergy and would use cortisone cream. My eyelid problem would then go away in a day or two and not come back for months. I thought back then that the cortisone cream had cured me, but now I realize that the itchy, scaley eyelids were "curing" themselves as soon as my estrogen level climbed back to normal. Today, whenever I get this dry eye, itchy-scaley eyelid problem at 3 PM, I rub on a little more estrogen gel and it is all gone in an hour.

    It is the first symptom to appear when my estrogen is just a little bit below normal. The more the estrogen dips below normal, the more symptoms appear. When I have gotten really, really low in estrogen, I have become bed-ridden with migraine, high blood pressure, pounding heart, and the shakes, like a drug addict in withdrawal.

    My husband recently got a call from a friend who was taken to the ER with symptoms just like mine (the severe symptoms, not rosacea) which occured at about 4 PM. The doctors did a battery of tests on him and could not find anything wrong. My husband told him about me and suggested he have a testosterone blood level test. He did, and it came back as ZERO! He is about 65 and has been suffering with chronic depression and osteoporosis for years, but no doctor ever checked his sex hormone levels. So there is a possibility that in men who first get symptoms of rosacea in mid-life, it could be due to declining testosterone levels. Women need estrogen and men need testosterone---viva le difference! Of course, too much testosterone or the conversion of it to DHT can cause an over-production of sebum and acne, so that is a problem. But I do think testosterone helps control men's temperature regulation and thus flushing, as men who are castrated for prostate cancer can get hot flushes, too.

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  • irishgenes
    replied
    Flareface, I made a post to you on the "Interesting Article by Dr. Kligman" thread. I gave reasons why the ring may be the reason you have not received any help for your rosacea with HRT. You may want to read that. It's all a question of the right dosage and form of estrogen. I looked up FemRing, and I see that it is estradiol acetate. Your doctor may have told you that is bioidentical, but it is not. Only Estring is bioidentical in a vaginal ring, according to the National Women's Health Resource Center. It has to say just "estradiol" to be bioidentical.

    Callien, I think the best authors for books on menopause and perimenopause are Dr. Elizabeth Vliet and Dr. Uzzi Reiss. Most of what I know, I have learned from them. Today I found a new book on Amazon which I just ordered, so I don't know how good it will be, but it sure sounds good! It is called: "The Hormonally Vulnerable Woman: Relief at last for PMS, mood swings, fatigue, hair loss, adult acne, unwanted hair, female pain, migraine, weight gain, ... all the problems of perimenopause" by Dr. Geoffrey Redmond.

    And specifically, I take estradiol and estrone compounded gel rubbed into my inner thighs. I have a .5 mg. per gm estradiol gel prescription, and a gm of the gel is 1/4 tsp. I bought "pinch, dash, & smidgen" teaspoons from ebay in order to get 1/8, 1/16, and 1/32 measurements so I can add small amounts as needed. I use it twice a day, as I can't seem to get by with once a day dosing. You can get the estradiol and estrone together combined with estriol, but I recently found that estriol was making my breasts hurt, so I deleted it. I had read that estriol was 1000 times weaker in its breast effect, which just goes to show that every woman is individual in her hormone response. Later I may combine the estradiol and estrone together in one prescription, as that is cheaper, but right now I am fine-tuning the dose, and taking them separately allows me to see what each can do. Estradiol is about 12X stronger than estrone, so you can take much more estrone without getting breast pain and bloat. I found that taking estradiol alone did not stop all my symptoms--I need estrone as the "reservoir" supply of estrogen. Estrone can be converted into estradiol as needed.

    You made me laugh, Callien, with your comments about bioidentical horse sh*t for men!

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  • Callien
    replied
    What if you're not going through menopause but just feel like your hormones are "off balance"? I think I'll do some research into this and see what I come up with. I welcome any feedback and am so glad to hear of your results.

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  • Leeloo
    replied
    I loooove my estrodoil! I'm on it for life, risk or no risk.
    I second that!

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  • flareface
    replied
    I went onto HRT several months after the flushing and redness started. I'm 51 and was having uncomfortable but manageable hot flashes. But after this Rosacea thing kicked in, my hot flashes started feeling like a torch on my skin, radiating from inside. I could not live that way, and I couldn't differentiate which sytmptoms were hot flash and which were
    Rosacea flares. One made the other worse and vise versa.
    I finally gave in and went on estrodoil which is bio identical estrogen. I use the new vaginal ring called Femring and it only has to be changed every 90 days. It's working so well for me. The benefits of the ring or creams or patches vs. taking pills is that your liver does not have to process it.
    It hasn't made my Rosacea better, but it has calmed the fire raging in my body, but not the fire on my face. At least when my face is flaring the rest of my body doesn't go with it.
    I loooove my estrodoil! I'm on it for life, risk or no risk.
    Roxanne

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  • Callien
    replied
    Irish,

    What specifically do you take?

    Also this is upsetting:

    Originally posted by irishgenes
    Wyeth, in cahoots with the FDA and the OB-GYN Association, are threatening to take away our bioidentical compounded hormones. I imagine the (mostly male) gynecologists don't like all these patients suddenly demanding bioidentical hormones. They are set in their ways and it is so easy and quick just to write the same prescription for everyone.
    I think it goes deeper than that. I think the issues are about money and some patriarchal/misogynist control over women. Something similar is happening with accutance. Men have the "blue" effect on viagra but I don't see them in any big hurry to pull that one off the shelves. In fact, tax dollars have spent to give it to convicted sex offenders.

    Originally posted by irishgenes
    If these men had a sudden huge drop in their testosterone, they would see what it is like!
    Castration would do the trick. Then instead of horse urine we could give them horse sh*t. Of course, it might not be bioidentical to the sh*t they're full of....

    ...but, I digress. Thanks for sharing all your info and keeping us posted. I think you've helped many women here whose symptoms are due to hormonal instability.

    Leave a comment:


  • irishgenes
    replied
    I tried patches, but they were just not strong enough for me. I didn't absorb it well for some reason, and I tried Estraderm and the Vivelle dot. Then I took compounded capsules (Tri-est) for years. About 3 months ago, I started the compounded gel, and that is what cured me of rosacea, which I have only had since age 58 when I lost a lot of weight (and thus a major source of my own estrogen). The reason the gel is so good is that you can figure out your own dose. Some days I need more than others. Just a tiny difference in dose (.05 mg.) can be the difference between bad symptoms and no symptoms for me.

    Wyeth-Ayerst is so upset over women dropping Premarin due to the recent studies showing increased cancer risk (though the increased risk is very small and probably related to the Provera), that they are trying to shut down the bioidentical hormone compounders by claiming that women don't need individual dosing of hormones, and that the bioidentical hormones have not been proven safe. DUH! It is what we have had in our bodies all our lives, a hormone designed by God! I just got a letter from the Women's International Pharmacy, my compounder, telling me to write my congressmen because Wyeth, in cahoots with the FDA and the OB-GYN Association, are threatening to take away our bioidentical compounded hormones. I imagine the (mostly male) gynecologists don't like all these patients suddenly demanding bioidentical hormones. They are set in their ways and it is so easy and quick just to write the same prescription for everyone. If these men had a sudden huge drop in their testosterone, they would see what it is like!

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  • Leeloo
    replied
    You're right, irishgenes. They haven't really studied the bioidentical estrogen. I've been on the Vivelle patch for five years (since I was 30-I had a hysterectomy due to painful endometriosis), which is the bioidentical estrogen and my gyn said all those studies were basically done on Premarin (which I've always refused to take--EEEWWWW!!).

    Do you use patches or compounded estrogen, if you don't mind my asking?

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  • redhotoz
    replied
    Thanks for the info Irishgenes.

    HRT is still on my list of things to consider but I haven't done much reading on it. That ever growing list! Aggh!

    Jen

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  • irishgenes
    replied
    Well, bioidentical estrogen cured my rosacea and I couldn't live without it. The HRT estrogen that they are talking about causing cancer is estrogen from HORSE URINE combined with an artificial progesterone. All the studies have been done with Premarin, a Wyeth-Ayerst drug that is synonymous with estrogen in doctors' minds, but is not the same thing at all. The major ingredient in Premarin is equilin, a horse estrogen that is 1000 times stronger than human estrogen. If human estrogen were so dangerous to humans, pregnant women would be getting the most breast cancer, as estrogen skyrockets at that time. Yet women with the most pregnancies suffer the least breast cancer in later life.

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