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  • #46
    Originally posted by billyraybar View Post
    Advice: Do not use the word 'rebound' willy-nilly. In the weak sense of the word everyone will experience a rebound effect using mirvaso because the redness will return after the medication wears off. And if it seems that the post Mirvaso redness is worsened -- bear in mind it is not necessarily due to the medication. It could be coincidence. Heck, the redness might not be really worse, it might be your mind playing tricks on you. For a better look at the fda info. Check out http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsa.../204708lbl.pdf
    (Don't let you kid take a sip of this sttuff-- yikes!)

    Also as far as I can tell, Mirvaso does not cause the freakishly ashen or ghostly pale skin that some folks are reporting. I dabbed some of it on my uber-tanned (yet red free) arm and a rosacea free area of my face and observed zero change in color.
    No no, I think you didn't get it fully; rebound is not used for the return of redness as it was de facto. It means a strong INCREASE of redness and flushing, way worse than before using the stuff. It has to do with artificially constricting the blood vessels and when the cause of that is gone, the blood vessels tend to in proportionally expand. This is what people are experiencing and please don't make them feel as if it's psychosomatic, or self inflicted by expecting it for that matter, that is a wild assumption and an untrue one in most cases I think. Compare it with having a red flushed face, then stepping into a very cold place with a fan on your face, the face calms down, and then stepping out of that cold area and back in normal warmer temperatures; the fact most flushers will get a lot more red and flushed than, then before they entered the cold place is not psychological but a normal physical reaction.
    Coincidence? Ha, I can tell you haven;'t used the Mirvaso yet or never had severe flushing perhaps? Its rarely due to a coincidence.
    My rosacea related blog: http://scarletnat.blogspot.com/2012/...edication.html

    Comment


    • #47
      Yeh sure its a bummer that people read negative reviews but what's the point of having a forum, heck even a few threads dedicated to this new drug, if people can not freely and honestly write their experienced? Sorry that you get afraid the stuff might never reach the UK, but really, rest assured, some people with rosacea complaining of increased symptoms because of it won't stop Galderma of launching it in the Uk as the target group is a lot broader than the rosacea patients (its aimed mainly on permanent redness which lots of people have, plenty of them not having rosacea).

      Some are getting sick of negative reviews, I am getting slightly frustrated by new posters telling people off for reporting their experiences here. Be glad you are handed some honest reviewing here and everybody can probably make up for themselves if they want to try it as well yes or no, and if they are at risk for the same rebound based on the severity of their flushing issues (with exception of those never having flushing issues before, I really feel bad for you all that you are experiencing this now and hope it will subside soon).
      Last edited by nat007; 4 October 2013, 08:46 PM.
      My rosacea related blog: http://scarletnat.blogspot.com/2012/...edication.html

      Comment


      • #48
        Final Review

        This will be my final review of Mirvaso. I have already posted most of these comments on this forum, but they are now spread around 3-4 different threads, so I wanted to put it all in one place so people could get a clear, concise explanation of my experience with it.

        This will detail my entire experience with it. I got the medication just a few days after it was released. Very excited about it, as I had read about Sansrosa for years, and I was the perfect test case- have permanent redness and no flushing. Plus, my derm recommended it and he is one of the best derms out there. So I first applied a test patch and was incredibly happy that it made my skin a completely normal color. I got so excited that I used the recommended dosages, and absolutely loved it. It worked as well as the pictures, maybe even better. The next day when I woke up, the redness was still reduced, at a time when I thought it would be coming back, so I thought that was awesome. So initially, it worked for about 48 hrs. Then the next morning, redness started coming back, but in patches. I thought that was no big deal, because the medication started working in patches too, so it should stop working the same way it starts working, right? The next day, my skin was still pretty red (redder than normal), but within another day, it had pretty much returned to my usual baseline. But during that "return to normal" face, I flushed, and I have never been a flusher before. I was red in areas that I had never been red before, and was more red than before as well. So a few days went by and everything went back to normal, I think, it's hard to say because I didn't take pics, but my skin wasn't reacting badly, which I thought was great. But I was still very worried about that flushing. I wondered if I had permanently damaged my skin and now I would be vulnerable to flushing in the future, and I'm still not sure what the answer to that question is. So I swore off the medication at that time. Then I read some reviews on here of people that had the same type of problem, and it seemed that the general consensus among a few users was to use much less then the recommended amount. I was thrilled about this idea. Within minutes of reading that thread, I applied a miniscule amount, which was less than 1 pea size for my entire face. In fact, it was probably closer to 1/2 pea size for the entire face. To my surprise, it worked perfectly. So I then thought, ok, I just applied too much originally and that's why the weird stuff happened like flushing, etc. So I decided that for the next 3 days I would apply it every morning. It worked beautifully for 3 days. One morning the redness started to come back in a weird way on my nose, but I simply applied the regular amount there and the medication started working immediately, and that day was terrific. But I had to see if I had solved the problem of "rebound" redness and flushing, so I wanted to take a few days off. I took some time off work, knowing that my face might look crazy. The first day off it was awesome, my skin returned to pretty much normal, until about 3PM that day, when all of the sudden my cheek started flushing, which lasted about 15 mins. I think this was when all the blood started coming back to my face, because that part that flushed is the part where my redness is the worse, so it's like it all joined up there, and then spread back evenly around my face. The flush went away, and my face went back to normal. Mind you, normal at this point, after 3 days of wearing it, was just slightly redder than my usual baseline, not a big deal, thought it would go away. My face did not act up again that day, or the next, or today. No more flushing or anything, but I am still more red than I was when I started using Mirvaso in the first place. So 3 days on the medication at a very reduced application, and 3 days off the medication, and my skin has not normalized. I hope it will be just a few more days until everything goes back to normal. I hope I can get my old (predictable) baseline back. If this recovery period only lasted a day, or 2 days max, I would be optimistic about Mirvaso, but a 3+ day recovery time for only 3 days of use is simply not sustainable, and I would guess would be bad for me in the long run. So at this point, I don't think I'll ever use Mirvaso again. I may use it here and there for special occasions. But if I don't get my baseline back to where it was and permanent damage was caused, I won't use it again. I had very high hopes for this drug, but would urge anyone to take extreme caution and proceed very slowly. I was the perfect patient for this medication, I don't usually get side effects with anything, but I did with this. So that's kind of telling. I'm going to read the reports again, but I truly think that even though they said 10% had negative reactions, I would be very surprised if anyone can use this with no negative reactions. The thing is, it's just a topical. Things are going to return to how they were before you started using it, no matter what. Even if you use it, and it works, you'll know that it's just a crutch, and once you stop using it things will probably be worse than they were to start with. I know this post was negative, and I was very optimistic about it, but I want people to be very realistic about it. Believe me, I wanted this to work as badly as anyone does, I'm so sad that it doesn't work for me, but that's life. I will continue on trying to heal myself of this, but I am now going to try to solve it from the inside out, with diet. Good luck to everyone trying this out, I sincerely hope it works for you.

        Comment


        • #49
          Thanks Anon24 for all your time and effort .

          And anyone who has a problem with people reporting negative things about Mirvaso .

          All I can say is Cop yourself on
          Last edited by Mirvaso2013; 4 October 2013, 11:56 PM.

          Comment


          • #50
            12 days off and worse off

            Thanks Nat007 for your thoughtful response to the poster who suggest that negative reactions may be in our heads. Honestly, I rarely visit the forum and haven't posted for years, because I want to avoid insensitive comments such as these. The ONLY reason I posted about Mirvaso was because people on the forum were asking for others' experiences.

            I can assure billlyraybar and red11 that I had a rebound after 3 days of Mirvaso use. There is nothing willy nilly about it and my mind is not playing tricks on me. My face flushed intermittently for about 9 days. Now, at 12 days, the flushing has calmed, but my redness is absolutely worse.

            During the worst of my reaction, I called my derm's office, who spoke with their Mirvaso rep about my reaction. They called me back and said that the rep said that this is a reaction in some people and that it would go away.

            My hope is that my skin continues to calm, but at 12 days off I'm having a hard time believing that. This has been a real setback for me. I wish I could go back in time.

            I hope that this is not something that happens to many other people.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by anon24 View Post
              This will be my final review of Mirvaso. I have already posted most of these comments on this forum, but they are now spread around 3-4 different threads, so I wanted to put it all in one place so people could get a clear, concise explanation of my experience with it.

              This will detail my entire experience with it. I got the medication just a few days after it was released. Very excited about it, as I had read about Sansrosa for years, and I was the perfect test case- have permanent redness and no flushing. Plus, my derm recommended it and he is one of the best derms out there.

              So I first applied a test patch and was incredibly happy that it made my skin a completely normal color. I got so excited that I used the recommended dosages, and absolutely loved it. It worked as well as the pictures, maybe even better. The next day when I woke up, the redness was still reduced, at a time when I thought it would be coming back, so I thought that was awesome. So initially, it worked for about 48 hrs.

              Then the next morning, redness started coming back, but in patches. I thought that was no big deal, because the medication started working in patches too, so it should stop working the same way it starts working, right? The next day, my skin was still pretty red (redder than normal), but within another day, it had pretty much returned to my usual baseline. But during that "return to normal" face, I flushed, and I have never been a flusher before. I was red in areas that I had never been red before, and was more red than before as well.

              So a few days went by and everything went back to normal, I think, it's hard to say because I didn't take pics, but my skin wasn't reacting badly, which I thought was great. But I was still very worried about that flushing. I wondered if I had permanently damaged my skin and now I would be vulnerable to flushing in the future, and I'm still not sure what the answer to that question is. So I swore off the medication at that time.

              Then I read some reviews on here of people that had the same type of problem, and it seemed that the general consensus among a few users was to use much less then the recommended amount. I was thrilled about this idea. Within minutes of reading that thread, I applied a miniscule amount, which was less than 1 pea size for my entire face. In fact, it was probably closer to 1/2 pea size for the entire face. To my surprise, it worked perfectly. So I then thought, ok, I just applied too much originally and that's why the weird stuff happened like flushing, etc. So I decided that for the next 3 days I would apply it every morning. It worked beautifully for 3 days.

              One morning the redness started to come back in a weird way on my nose, but I simply applied the regular amount there and the medication started working immediately, and that day was terrific. But I had to see if I had solved the problem of "rebound" redness and flushing, so I wanted to take a few days off. I took some time off work, knowing that my face might look crazy.

              The first day off it was awesome, my skin returned to pretty much normal, until about 3PM that day, when all of the sudden my cheek started flushing, which lasted about 15 mins. I think this was when all the blood started coming back to my face, because that part that flushed is the part where my redness is the worse, so it's like it all joined up there, and then spread back evenly around my face. The flush went away, and my face went back to normal. Mind you, normal at this point, after 3 days of wearing it, was just slightly redder than my usual baseline, not a big deal, thought it would go away. My face did not act up again that day, or the next, or today. No more flushing or anything, but I am still more red than I was when I started using Mirvaso in the first place.

              So 3 days on the medication at a very reduced application, and 3 days off the medication, and my skin has not normalized. I hope it will be just a few more days until everything goes back to normal. I hope I can get my old (predictable) baseline back. If this recovery period only lasted a day, or 2 days max, I would be optimistic about Mirvaso, but a 3+ day recovery time for only 3 days of use is simply not sustainable, and I would guess would be bad for me in the long run.

              So at this point, I don't think I'll ever use Mirvaso again. I may use it here and there for special occasions. But if I don't get my baseline back to where it was and permanent damage was caused, I won't use it again. I had very high hopes for this drug, but would urge anyone to take extreme caution and proceed very slowly. I was the perfect patient for this medication, I don't usually get side effects with anything, but I did with this. So that's kind of telling.

              I'm going to read the reports again, but I truly think that even though they said 10% had negative reactions, I would be very surprised if anyone can use this with no negative reactions. The thing is, it's just a topical. Things are going to return to how they were before you started using it, no matter what. Even if you use it, and it works, you'll know that it's just a crutch, and once you stop using it things will probably be worse than they were to start with.

              I know this post was negative, and I was very optimistic about it, but I want people to be very realistic about it. Believe me, I wanted this to work as badly as anyone does, I'm so sad that it doesn't work for me, but that's life. I will continue on trying to heal myself of this, but I am now going to try to solve it from the inside out, with diet. Good luck to everyone trying this out, I sincerely hope it works for you.
              Thank you for your review. I have tried to split it up in hope to make it easier to read. Hope you do not object.

              Comment


              • #52
                Be very careful with this stuff

                I've never commented on this forum until now. Like most I was hoping this would be that miracle drug to help persistent redness, burning, and aggravation of rosacea. I'll keep it brief. What others are saying about this medicine is true---tread lightly. I have rosacea (type 1) with persistent redness, periods of mod-severe flushing and SD. I tried this medicine as directed and the results were so amazing it was scary. I mean I went from red/burning/tingling to calm, white within an hour. It also lasted about 8 hrs. But when this **** wears off OMG!! Calm before the storm. You pissed your skin off, wrecked the balance, and if you have SD...get ready. I woke to what looked like poison ivy in random patches all over my face. This medicine scares the crap out of me!!!! I'm a doctor myself and I know a thing or two about physiologic mechanisms and our body's role of homeostasis.Whatever the underlying cause is that causes or blood vessels to be hyperactive, placing a topical chemical on the skin that's absorbed and then wears off is asking for trouble. It's not a permanent solution, only a crutch. This stuff has the potential to ruin your baseline flush response. The concept is great but not sure this medicine delivers. Be careful folks. I wish I would've never tried it.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pascal View Post
                  I've never commented on this forum until now. Like most I was hoping this would be that miracle drug to help persistent redness, burning, and aggravation of rosacea. I'll keep it brief. What others are saying about this medicine is true---tread lightly. I have rosacea (type 1) with persistent redness, periods of mod-severe flushing and SD. I tried this medicine as directed and the results were so amazing it was scary. I mean I went from red/burning/tingling to calm, white within an hour. It also lasted about 8 hrs. But when this **** wears off OMG!! Calm before the storm. You pissed your skin off, wrecked the balance, and if you have SD...get ready. I woke to what looked like poison ivy in random patches all over my face. This medicine scares the crap out of me!!!! I'm a doctor myself and I know a thing or two about physiologic mechanisms and our body's role of homeostasis.Whatever the underlying cause is that causes or blood vessels to be hyperactive, placing a topical chemical on the skin that's absorbed and then wears off is asking for trouble. It's not a permanent solution, only a crutch. This stuff has the potential to ruin your baseline flush response. The concept is great but not sure this medicine delivers. Be careful folks. I wish I would've never tried it.
                  Thanks Pascal !

                  Another people who say Mirvaso works fine but have severe side effect.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Pascal View Post
                    I've never commented on this forum until now. Like most I was hoping this would be that miracle drug to help persistent redness, burning, and aggravation of rosacea. I'll keep it brief. What others are saying about this medicine is true---tread lightly. I have rosacea (type 1) with persistent redness, periods of mod-severe flushing and SD. I tried this medicine as directed and the results were so amazing it was scary. I mean I went from red/burning/tingling to calm, white within an hour. It also lasted about 8 hrs. But when this **** wears off OMG!! Calm before the storm. You pissed your skin off, wrecked the balance, and if you have SD...get ready. I woke to what looked like poison ivy in random patches all over my face. This medicine scares the crap out of me!!!! I'm a doctor myself and I know a thing or two about physiologic mechanisms and our body's role of homeostasis.Whatever the underlying cause is that causes or blood vessels to be hyperactive, placing a topical chemical on the skin that's absorbed and then wears off is asking for trouble. It's not a permanent solution, only a crutch. This stuff has the potential to ruin your baseline flush response. The concept is great but not sure this medicine delivers. Be careful folks. I wish I would've never tried it.



                    Thanks Pascal

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Pascal View Post
                      I've never commented on this forum until now. Like most I was hoping this would be that miracle drug to help persistent redness, burning, and aggravation of rosacea. I'll keep it brief. What others are saying about this medicine is true---tread lightly. I have rosacea (type 1) with persistent redness, periods of mod-severe flushing and SD. I tried this medicine as directed and the results were so amazing it was scary. I mean I went from red/burning/tingling to calm, white within an hour. It also lasted about 8 hrs. But when this **** wears off OMG!! Calm before the storm. You pissed your skin off, wrecked the balance, and if you have SD...get ready. I woke to what looked like poison ivy in random patches all over my face. This medicine scares the crap out of me!!!! I'm a doctor myself and I know a thing or two about physiologic mechanisms and our body's role of homeostasis.Whatever the underlying cause is that causes or blood vessels to be hyperactive, placing a topical chemical on the skin that's absorbed and then wears off is asking for trouble. It's not a permanent solution, only a crutch. This stuff has the potential to ruin your baseline flush response. The concept is great but not sure this medicine delivers. Be careful folks. I wish I would've never tried it.
                      Wow thank you Pascal for a very insightful post. Those with already hyperreactive blood vessels issues (the moderate to severe flushers) might be most at risk for disturbing this balance and making the blood vessels go crazy after this chemical wears off then? I find it especially disappointing that the makers of this drug seemed totally disinterested in the rebound side effects, just waving it away when a professor in dermatology issued it several times. I doubt they even thought about a solution for this, heck, I doubt there even IS a solution for this response
                      My rosacea related blog: http://scarletnat.blogspot.com/2012/...edication.html

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Big Pharma is interested in maintenance drugs

                        Originally posted by nat007 View Post
                        Wow thank you Pascal for a very insightful post. Those with already hyperreactive blood vessels issues (the moderate to severe flushers) might be most at risk for disturbing this balance and making the blood vessels go crazy after this chemical wears off then? I find it especially disappointing that the makers of this drug seemed totally disinterested in the rebound side effects, just waving it away when a professor in dermatology issued it several times. I doubt they even thought about a solution for this, heck, I doubt there even IS a solution for this response
                        This should come as no surprise that big pharma isn't interested in "cure" drugs. For a medicine to get approved for human use they can spend upwards of $100 million. Obviously they need a ROI (return on investment) otherwise they go out of business. I'm not a conspiracy guy that thinks big pharma is evil and out to get us...the industry produces countless beneficial drugs, but I know 1st hand how drug trial results can be skewed to produce useful data. Im not saying lying....they just stretch the truth with their results and they will ONLY post the best images on their websites and the best data. I spent 3 years in undergrad doing scientific research for a major university and believe me - if they don't get the results they set out to, they don't get the grant $$$$.

                        Generally when a company begins R&D of a potential new drug, they usually explore drug mechanisms that alleviate and provide palliative treatment of symptoms...that way as you continue to use it, you continue to need it, and they make a killing. Drugs that cure aren't as lucrative. It sucks but that's the way it is in a society that wants to make money.

                        I've suffered with SD and rosacea for 15 years and I've tried every stupid thing under the sun. I'd rub dog **** on my face if it worked . I literally don't have time to write every remedy, from diet modification to prescription med, IPL, and on and on and on. Luckily for me, I can afford the best of care and yet I still suffer immensely from the condition. What I've found is you have to be VERY gentle of the skin, less is more. Believe me, Im an academic with a serious background in pharmacology and this **** racks my brain every day. I've gotten to the point where I try to be gentle to my skin and I pray a lot. Believe it or not, yes, Im down to prayer now. This is a HORRIBLE disease that only people with it can understand the demoralizing and depressing effects.

                        Sorry, got off on a tangent, but I just wanted to offer my 2cents on my history. Back to Mirvaso. It acts on the sympathetic nervous system and on blood vessels to vasoconstrict. Believe me this stuff works VERY effectively in doing so. But like ALL drugs there is a half life and a metabolism of the drug. Once it's metabolized you're back to square one, and in my case, the rebound reaction was worst than when I started. Without going into too much detail, let me try to explain something about the microvascular system ( the small network of blood vessels) that are often the culprit in rosacea. By using Mirvaso, it gets absorbed transdermally (thru the skin) and begins the mechanism of action which targets receptors on blood vessels and tells them to constrict/shrink. As long as the drug is active, it will act on the blood vessels and cause constriction. It does not permanently alter the shape of the vessel - it doesn't shrink the walls and they simply don't go away. The vessels are in a temporary "collapsed" or constricted state. The literature says that Mirvaso lasts for 12 hours. For me it was less. No here is where I speculate. I imagine if we were to ask Galderma what the long term goal of Mirvaso is, they would say that their drug will desensitize the vessels to the flush response and continue to shrink to the vessels and you get reduction in the red face. But I'm very skeptical of this. I have the feeling it will not permanently alter the vessels and the patient will become very dependent on it....and thus Galderma has a customer for life. Again, I HOPE Im wrong!!! I truly hope this is the drug they claim it to be but my gut feeling is it will be another drug in a long list of temporary relief of symptoms.

                        I hope others like it but don't go slathering this stuff on like they tell you to. If you try it, do spot tests and use less of the drug.

                        If someone else has a story about using this medicine please post.

                        Best regards,
                        pascal

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Galderma never tackled the rebound problem after all

                          So Mirvaso in its current form is dead and buried as far as Im concerned

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Mirvaso2013 View Post
                            Galderma never tackled the rebound problem after all

                            So Mirvaso in its current form is dead and buried as far as Im concerned
                            Why didn't they make 2 or 3 different strengths .Because its way too strong for Sensitive + Rosacea skin

                            Idiots that's all I can say .

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Wow, very good post again Pascal. Insightful. I know from inside the university world how grants are harvested (different field than the medical one, but guess it can be compared in some ways) so I'm not too surprised about your post. It indeed sounds very cynical and suspicious to state that pharmaceutical companies are merely interested in a life long dependency medication, and not in a cure, but you are far from the only person stating this and I guess with age, we see more clearly unfortunately how rotten certain parts of the world are these days. Capitalism at its finest. Saw a stunning documentary about people with Lyme's disease and some specialists explained how the patent system in the US works and how scientists started to patent and hide all their discoveries from the 80's I think it was onwards, to secure their own income, and nothing was shared for the greater good anymore. Despicable road, from the perspective of patients.

                              I wonder if it is possible that when Mirvaso causes rebound redness and flushing, and people keep using it, in order to suppress that reaction, whether or not in the long run Mirvaso would have the potential to make matters worse in fact? What is your point of view in this? Could the vessels and nervous system get so stimulated by the chemical vasoconstriction and then the vasodilation stimuli that you mess up the already overreactive central nervous system perhaps? (Hence, becoming more and more dependent on the Mirvaso?). Like the corticosteroids effectively do? (although they can just cause rosacea too obviously).
                              I'm particularly disappointed that doctors brought the rebound flushing up to this pharmaceutical company and from what it seems they simply had no interest in any of that. Neither finding out how to tackle it nor warning for it. Even the spokes person for them had not even heard about the probability of rebound problems.
                              My rosacea related blog: http://scarletnat.blogspot.com/2012/...edication.html

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by nat007 View Post
                                Wow, very good post again Pascal. Insightful. I know from inside the university world how grants are harvested (different field than the medical one, but guess it can be compared in some ways) so I'm not too surprised about your post. It indeed sounds very cynical and suspicious to state that pharmaceutical companies are merely interested in a life long dependency medication, and not in a cure, but you are far from the only person stating this and I guess with age, we see more clearly unfortunately how rotten certain parts of the world are these days. Capitalism at its finest. Saw a stunning documentary about people with Lyme's disease and some specialists explained how the patent system in the US works and how scientists started to patent and hide all their discoveries from the 80's I think it was onwards, to secure their own income, and nothing was shared for the greater good anymore. Despicable road, from the perspective of patients.

                                I wonder if it is possible that when Mirvaso causes rebound redness and flushing, and people keep using it, in order to suppress that reaction, whether or not in the long run Mirvaso would have the potential to make matters worse in fact? What is your point of view in this? Could the vessels and nervous system get so stimulated by the chemical vasoconstriction and then the vasodilation stimuli that you mess up the already overreactive central nervous system perhaps? (Hence, becoming more and more dependent on the Mirvaso?). Like the corticosteroids effectively do? (although they can just cause rosacea too obviously).
                                I'm particularly disappointed that doctors brought the rebound flushing up to this pharmaceutical company and from what it seems they simply had no interest in any of that. Neither finding out how to tackle it nor warning for it. Even the spokes person for them had not even heard about the probability of rebound problems.
                                Agreed

                                Maybe there is no solution


                                And its not rocket science to know that the more you put on the bigger the rebound

                                I would love to see how useful Mirvaso 0.1 strenght would be .

                                And not one other person on this forum bar myself and you nat007 are not even interested in finding out also
                                Last edited by Mirvaso2013; 6 October 2013, 09:51 PM.

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