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  • I posted this is another thread but thought it was appropriate here, as well.

    Regarding metronidazole for SIBO:

    I started with this regimen three weeks ago. Unlike with doxy or rifaximin (which did nothing for me), I saw a fairly impressive initial improvement after starting metronidazole 500mg tid. In just a couple of days, my face was clear, smooth, and pale for the first time since developing this silly disease. For a few days, I actually felt normal (even ever so slightly attractive!) again. Since then, I have noticed:

    On the plus side, my nodules, papules and pustules (I am type 2) have been held at bay for the most part, though I still get the errant bump or two that breaks through.

    On the minus side, it hasn't seemed to make a dent in my near constant flushing and burning or in the intermittent but maddening pressure at the bridge of my nose.

    For both these reasons, I don't feel in any sense cured but merely controlled and that at a cost: I have recently developed the mild diffuse itching that signaled an antibiotic fueled folliculitis the last time I was on full strength antibiotics (then it was doxycycline).

    So now I'm wondering whether I should stay the course and finish out the full two months or do quick taper and get out.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Michael_V View Post
      On the minus side, it hasn't seemed to make a dent in my near constant flushing and burning or in the intermittent but maddening pressure at the bridge of my nose.
      I don't mean to go off-topic but Michael, could you tell me more about the pressure on your nose? Do you feel it's connected to your rosacea? Is it your sinuses? Does the pressure ever move around? Do you get pressure anywhere else on your face? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just very curious. Someone pointed me in your direction because I experience something that seems similar, a dull pressure ache that comes and goes. It tends to come on after flushing. But also at random times. Sometimes it's around my ears. The sensation makes me feel tired. I've never met anyone else who has this symptom! I don't know if it's connected to my flushing and facial bumpies and itchies but the issues started at about the same time (2 years ago).
      Rosacea and seborrheic dermatitis.

      Symptoms:
      Itchy red rash across cheeks, chin and eyebrow region, bumpy skin texture, flaking skin.

      Current treatments:
      Avoid cold, eat simple foods, avoid sugars.
      Probiotics every day and honey masks every other day.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by LadyBee View Post
        I don't mean to go off-topic but Michael, could you tell me more about the pressure on your nose? Do you feel it's connected to your rosacea? Is it your sinuses? Does the pressure ever move around? Do you get pressure anywhere else on your face? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just very curious. Someone pointed me in your direction because I experience something that seems similar, a dull pressure ache that comes and goes. It tends to come on after flushing. But also at random times. Sometimes it's around my ears. The sensation makes me feel tired. I've never met anyone else who has this symptom! I don't know if it's connected to my flushing and facial bumpies and itchies but the issues started at about the same time (2 years ago).
        I have the exact same pressure on my nose, and in some other points of my face.
        Maybe due to the thinness of the skin.

        Comment


        • Something to think about, when mulling on antibiotics, immune-response, secondary infection, etc:

          'Good' Bacteria Keep Immune System Primed to Fight Future Infections

          Comment


          • Interesting article. I like the analogy to a car engine.
            This definitely emphasizes the importance of probiotics but is that sufficient and in what quantity/quality?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LadyBee View Post
              I don't mean to go off-topic but Michael, could you tell me more about the pressure on your nose? Do you feel it's connected to your rosacea? Is it your sinuses? Does the pressure ever move around? Do you get pressure anywhere else on your face? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just very curious. Someone pointed me in your direction because I experience something that seems similar, a dull pressure ache that comes and goes. It tends to come on after flushing. But also at random times. Sometimes it's around my ears. The sensation makes me feel tired. I've never met anyone else who has this symptom! I don't know if it's connected to my flushing and facial bumpies and itchies but the issues started at about the same time (2 years ago).
              Many rosaceans experience this symptom. It is not related to the sinuses. Here is a thread dedicated to this very topic: http://rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_...=pressure+nose

              Comment


              • Vivonex diet for SIBO

                Hey everyone,

                Just thought I would post to tell about my experience with SIBO and rosacea.
                Not too sure where to start, but I feel I should post my experience, so that someone might learn something from it.
                Like many on this board, I wondered if my rosacea was related to my gut issues. The more I read, the more convinced I was that SIBO was a culprit. The drug rifaximin is not available in Canada where I live and I tried every other drug combo there was to treat my gut (and hopefully my rosacea).
                As I read up on SIBO, I learned of Dr Mark Pimentel and his book’ I New IBS Solution: Bacteria-The Missing Link in Treating Irritable Bowel Syndrome. I became convinced that gut bacteria were to blame for my rosacea and my IBS like symptoms.
                Dr Mark (who is the director of the gastrointestinal motility program at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center) treats IBS with a course of rifaximin, or by prescribing an elemental diet (Vivonex).
                Vivonex is an elemental diet. It is basically what they feed people on feeding tubes. It is ‘pre-digested’ so it absorbs within the first two feet of the digestive tract. This early absorption basically starves out the bacteria lower down in the digestive tract. It is supposed to be even more effective than rifaximin at treating IBS bacteria. If a course of rifaximin does not resolve IBS symptoms, a 2 week diet of Vivonex is often prescribed.
                So, since I couldn’t get my hands on rifaximin in Canada, I decided to try the Vivonex diet. I figured that if I could reduce my bacteria load, my rosacea would improve.
                To sum up this already long post. Vivonex is vile and I had a VERY hard time completing the diet. For a full two weeks, all I could drink was water and Vivonex. I never cheated once and it was really, really hard.
                At the end of all of it my stomach was vastly improved. I would say my IBS symptoms have improved by at least 85%, but there was absolutely no improvement on my rosacea.
                To say the least I was very disappointed. While I am happy my gut issues are a lot improved, I am very sad that there was no impact on my skin. I completed the Vivonex diet about mid November and waited, hoping for a delayed reaction on my skin….but it hasn’t happened. 2 ½ months after completing the IBS Vivonex protocol, my IBS symptoms remain improved, but alas, there was no positive impact on my rosacea.

                Comment


                • That's very disappointing about the rosacea naun......I also recently have been diagnosised with IBS-D.....plus rosacea for 12yrs now.....I recently too read Dr.P's book....and am on the rifaximin.....I didn't think I could do the Vivonex for 14days.....it's sounds so difficult....I admit I don't expect to see any improvements in my rosacea either....but I will do the course of rifaximin....followed up by erythromycin 50mg's as he also prescribed this afterward for 3mo's to truly get the gut clear of SIBO.....I am only on my second day of rifaximin so it is too early to tell.....I'll post on my results in future. Also I am taking glutamine several times per day....watching my diet.

                  I am glad to hear your IBS has improved so much.....that is wonderful.

                  Perhaps this gut connection is all just another rabbit trail.....who really knows.

                  I recently saw a new commerical about rosacea.....while it's good they are putting it out there and this one did say it is a chronic inflammatory skin disease....they still make it sound like there's a simple cure out there and just call or visit a website and no problems.....you'll know what you have and all is well. If yours is mild that's fine....if it's not well....your on this forum and realize there is nothing simple about rosacea.
                  Dx 1998

                  Comment


                  • Update on my use of rifaximin....

                    far as I can see no change or improvements noted in my rosacea.....still red and developed many more p&p's while on it....that part really doesnt' make much sense as the study indicated a clearance of them for patients.

                    I just began metro orally 1000mg's per day.... I plan on doing this for 10days or 2wks.....and will post an update afterward.

                    As far as flushing goes.....I only flush to triggers....emotions/stress, humidity, hot rooms and of course certain foods......so for the most part I avoid all these things and can usually keep that under control. I saw no change in that at all either way.

                    As far as my IBS-D goes....I haven't suffered an attack since taking the rifaximin.....so perhaps it will benefit this if not the rosacea.

                    Michael.....are you still taking the metro? could you update this topic with your progress/results?

                    Dx 1998

                    Comment


                    • I'm pretty sure these drugs are doing more harm than good. You know even if you could get rid of the pathogens in your gut, without a flora in good shape, producing acids to control the overgrowth of pathogens and maintaining a proper slightly acidic environment in the bowel, there are no chances to cure the problem.
                      As TheMediumDog pointed out with the article, good bacterias are keeping immune system primed to fight infections.
                      That's the underlying cause. Poor immune system, and lack of flora. Destroying even only pathogenous organisms won't solve the cause, in my opinion.
                      Building the flora back is the safest way to get rid of a bacterial overgrowth. And it takes time. IBS is clearly linked to a LACK of beneficial flora and thus an overgrowth of pathogens. Just eat plenty of fermented foods, kefir, raw sauerkraut, home made yoghurts (from RAW milk), and avoid sugars. Feed your flora with oat and rice brans.
                      I know I post a lot about this, but I think it has to be said. I can understand that some ppl do not agree with that, but...
                      Metronidazole and other drugs will let your bowel more and more alkaline because they will destroy all the flora that produce acids that control pathogens overgrowth. Parasites and yeasts thrives in an alkaline medium.
                      But I do not have any diplomas to show to you, so I'm not an expert. I'm just trying to help you as I can!
                      But I really hope you will find relief, in a way or another. I also have problems like yours, but I tried so much things that didn't work. Since I'm doing this "plan", I eventually have relief in my GI probs and my skin is also better than it has ever be.

                      Best wishes, and have a nice day.

                      Comment


                      • Darlene,
                        It's great that your IBS is calming down!

                        MasK,
                        All opinions are important and appreciated regardless of degrees etc. You have the experience and knowledge from dealing with all of this for so long. I enjoy your posts.
                        Is there a way that Darlene can do this treatment and at the same time add back all the good flora by eating fermented foods and pre and probiotics etc (as long as she can tolerate this)?

                        Best wishes,
                        Melissa

                        Comment


                        • Thank you for you kind post.
                          Rifaximin for example is fighting against some types of bacteria, like e.coli. But the goal is not to get rid of e.coli. It is a necessary bacteria, needed in our gut in controlled proportions (and only certain species), like many other ones, Candida Albicans (in the benign form), Streptococcus, ...
                          Who is controlling that? The flora, lactobacillius, bifidobacterium, streptococcus, some yeasts,... by producing lactic and acetic acids, and some fatty acids.
                          So I do think it is absolutely necessary to eat at least one portion of probiotic food a day, and if you are using antibiotics, even more.
                          But maybe it is better to wait the end of the antibiotic round, then start replenish the flora, because they will certainly kill most of the beneficial ones.
                          But the point is that without building back the flora, I don't think any change is going to happen on the long term.
                          Glutamine is a good idea, as it helps repair the intestinal mucosa, and be sure that with a SIBO or dysbiosis, your intestinal wall is inflamed. Licorice root and yucca root are also both great healers of the mucosa, and reduce inflammation. They also feed the flora.

                          And for metronidazole, it is effective against Giardia lamblia, Entamoeba histolytica, Trichomonas vaginalis, Clostridium difficile, Helicobacter pylori.

                          Maybe I would advise you to make some stool tests (Genova or Metamerix), to check which species are detected. So you will know what to adress; parasites, yeasts, ...

                          Comment


                          • After all this time. I have come to the conclusion that there must be a connection with rosacea and SIBO. I felt my rosacea "made a comeback" during the summer (after one year since oral metronidazole), and I started again with one month on oral metronidazole, and now things are clearing up beautifully again.

                            I also have IBS and now I clearly see a connection between this as well as SIBO and rosacea.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by siliconmessiah View Post
                              After all this time. I have come to the conclusion that there must be a connection with rosacea and SIBO. I felt my rosacea "made a comeback" during the summer (after one year since oral metronidazole), and I started again with one month on oral metronidazole, and now things are clearing up beautifully again.

                              I also have IBS and now I clearly see a connection between this as well as SIBO and rosacea.
                              IBS is the direct consequence of a disturbed flora.
                              Many studies have shown links to pathogens and IBS, and results obtained by taking massive doses of probiotics.
                              But be aware that the cause of a disturbed flora is mainly drugs, especially antibiotics.
                              If you really want to get rid of the problem and build the flora back, you will have to stop killing them with the drugs.

                              Comment


                              • Hi Mask,

                                Very glad to hear things are slowly improving for you.

                                I have a few questions.

                                Firstly, do you still flush when you eat? Is it immediately, even before the food has had time to digest?
                                Or is it some time later? Has the flush reduced from what it was?

                                What about from other triggers?
                                Baseline redness?

                                How long have you been doing this regime now?

                                Secondly. Last time we spoke, you found glutamine to be constipating like I did. I tried again and with perseverence, found that unpleasant effect wore off, and surprisingly, it seemed to reduce my flushing, slightly. Not major flushes, but the constant hyper ones. I only take 3mg, at breakfast with a serving of whey. Whey stimulated my immune system initially and caused some burning and P&P's, but after some weeks this wore off.

                                I understand that it is probably necessary to take larger doses of Glutamine than I do.
                                I tried, but more makes me flush.
                                What dose do you take and does it cause any flushing?

                                You seem to know a lot about the gut and flora species, so I have a few more questions.

                                Firstly, your doctor seems a good one. What is he? A GP? One who has combined knowledge of natural and orthodox treatments?
                                How easy is it to get the tests you have?
                                Is your kind of treatment typical for your country?

                                I finally stopped my 10 years of oral Erythromycin ( E-mycin) in June, so I have been antibiotic free for three months. I would like to say I am much, much better, but alas I can not, despite the fact I have been trying to treat my gut.
                                Vitamin D has helped me a lot and for a while there, I really thought that finally I might beat this beast, rosacea, but since being back in Australia, I have deteriorated again.
                                I feel unwell. Actually this started in NZ a few weeks before I left.

                                I have tried various types of probiotics, including reuterei pearls. ( I have always taken probiotics).
                                I found a good GP while in NZ who treats the gut as well as performing all the usual orthodox treatments. We talked a long time on two occasions. One hour each. Complete history.
                                He is convinced I have a smoldering infection somewhere ( blood tests indicate this as well), and after much research wonders if I do indeed have Cpn.

                                His view is, that the immune system, much of which is located in the gut, is designed to prevent major infections, but once they have got past the door, it becomes very difficult to kill them if they are the intracellular kind. Once they have located inside the host cells in tissues throughout the body, they don't care what the gut is doing.

                                I would like to know what you have learnt about this sort of thing from your own doctor.

                                I understand completely about restoring proper gut function and thus a fully functional immune system. Prof Ayers and I talk about this all the time. He also has many articles about this on his blog.
                                In some people though, it just doesn't work. It cures many health issues, but not rosacea, or whatever else some people are suffering with.
                                So what reason does that leave? Intracellular bacteria?

                                All that aside, I recently started a new probiotic in addition to the usual ones I take.
                                This one contains 20 million Lactobacillus plantarum (Lp299v). Brand Inner Health.
                                It is sold as a treatment for IBS and it is a type I have not tried before.

                                I am going to cautiously say, my gut feels more functional on it so far, but it has only been four days. A little premature to be saying anything probably, but I have never noticed a difference with any other type I have taken. My bloating and discomfort is greatly reduced.

                                I have read studies to show it is effective against E.coli, but I assume that means, restricting their numbers, rather then killing them, because as you have pointed out, it is balance we want, not eradication of any particular strain. In any case, my gut tends towards sluggishness, not urgency, so I am not sure about my E.coli status anyway.

                                I also take Inner Health Plus, Dairy free.

                                http://innerhealth.com.au/content/products

                                And reuterei from the Primadophilus brand.

                                I would be grateful for your comments.

                                Thanks!
                                Mistica
                                Senior Member
                                Last edited by Mistica; 11 September 2010, 11:03 PM.
                                Previous Numerous IPL.
                                Supplements: High dose Niacinamide, Vit K2, low dose Vit A. Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Mod- dose B's. Low dose zinc. Testing Quercetin.

                                Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA 2%, ethyl ascorbate 2%.

                                Treating for gut dysbiosis.(This is helping).
                                Previous GAPS diet. Have now introduced lots of fibre.
                                Fermented Foods. Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.
                                Oral Colostrum. Helps reduce food reactions.

                                Comment

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