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  • #31
    Originally posted by Steve95301
    Has anyone read any of Douglas Johnson's books? He's got quite a few about phototherapy for sale on lulu.com.

    They're pretty expensive, but I'm thinking of finding a way to buy this one:

    http://www.lulu.com/content/165611

    Phototherapy Level I: An Introduction to Light as a Therapeutic Modality

    Beginning with brief general comments regarding the use of phototherapy equipment, it presents a summary of the physics, technology, and physiological effects of light along with step-by-step instructions and illustration on how to use the equipment. Clear-cut, complete and current, this guide blends practical application with scientific rationale in the application of phototherapy as a therapeutic modality. Readers will become adept at appropriately and safely employing low level lasers and upper luminous diodes into a rehabilitation program. More than a simplistic how-to-guide, this book will challenge its readers to think critically when mapping out the best treatment options with optimal use of phototherapy.
    Hi Steve

    I think it is important to differentiate between low level lasers and low level red light therapy. There is a very big difference between lasers and red light therapy.

    Wow! That is big bucks for a book/e-book! Oh and buying a machine yourself would be mega bucks!

    If you do decide to buy this book Steve, please do give us a summary. If you decide to buy your own machine, no doubt you will have a line happening out the front of your house! LOL

    Jen
    Currently trying: Apr 06 Bee Wilder's Candida (natural healing) Diet; May 06 Home made red LED array; Aug 06 ZZ ointment.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by fut
      I'm sorry i've been behind on this, but may I ask exactly what symptoms Red Light Therapy seeks to diminish? Is acne an issue?

      Thanks for the updates.
      Hi Fut

      It’s my understanding that using red lights on Rosacean skin has an anti-inflammatory effect, thus creating the calming feeling that has been reported on, myself included. I used to get p&p and what I think is an acne component as well, because I can clearly differentiate between what is a pimple, papule or pustule. Diet has most definitely helped me with the ‘spots’ and the red LED array I am using, I consider to be ‘icing on the cake’. Or in other words, taking the good results even further to possible ‘normal’ skin – whatever that is!!! LOL

      The reason I wanted to go off meds and try this approach was because of the negative reactions I had to antibiotics and the yeast issue I now have to deal with. Honestly, I’ve never paid much attention to the ‘signs’ from my body, telling me that things needed fixing, but now I am much more in tune with my body. I have found that sitting under the red lights is also very relaxing and I am far less stressed than I used to be. This of course will also be helping the face.

      I can’t say exactly what percentage red lights are helping me but since I am med free, I believe the red lights, along with the diet, are truly helping.

      Not sure if this specifically answers your question. I can only give you my own report on what I feel red light therapy is doing to help my skin. I’m trying to gather some photos and will post in the photo area after the school holidays, so you will be able to see what improvement there has been.

      Jen
      Currently trying: Apr 06 Bee Wilder's Candida (natural healing) Diet; May 06 Home made red LED array; Aug 06 ZZ ointment.

      Comment


      • #33
        What is the mechanism by which RLT improves rosacea (i.e. if anti-inflamatory is the answer, what is the reason for the anti-inflamatory action)?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Coyne
          I also vote for a special 'outside' thread. That way when arguments become personal and off topic they can be taken 'outside'. It would just make it simpler to research a particular topic without having to trawl through off topic rhetoric.

          Yes I know people have differences .etc but I don't really care about them I selfishly want to read about Rosacea. Topical debates are interesting but sometimes they can get heated and an 'outside' thread would be a good place for people to hammer out these differences. That way if people want to keep up with an argument they can read it there. But more importantly it would make threads easier to read and find the information you want.

          Peace 8)

          James
          All off-topic posts in this thread (including my own) have been moved to the Meta Forum.

          Thanks for the idea James.

          Jen
          Currently trying: Apr 06 Bee Wilder's Candida (natural healing) Diet; May 06 Home made red LED array; Aug 06 ZZ ointment.

          Comment


          • #35
            I had a crack at red light LED therapy recently. Wanting David's practical nous I bought a little hand-held affair : 84 x 660nm bulbs. Held six or so inches from the face, an entire cheek was bathed in light.

            I used it every day for 15-20 mins (on each cheek).

            From time to time I experienced subtle flushing episodes during these sessions. It was not my experience that the treatment had an immediate calming effect yet the slight flushing (caused, I fancy, by the build up of heat in and from the array) was by no means bad enough to prompt me to quit.

            After a couple or so weeks I noticed definite improvements in skin texture and appearance (which was not poor in the first place).

            A few weeks after that I detected a definite and unprecedented plumpness about the cheeks. This may be imputable to collagen growth and such like.
            Anyhoo, I must say that for this slightly round faced gentleman this plumpness of sorts (that others might regard as a sign of vitality etc etc) was not neccessarily a good thing.

            Given this, and because the treatments were a chore, and because they continued to provoke slight flushing from time to time, I called it quits.

            Many have noticed an improvement in their flushing after 3/4 months use.
            I did not persevere for that long.

            When winter comes, I may try again.

            Comment


            • #36
              I here you about that plumpness thing GJ

              I've received the fabrication details from David and have talked with the more mechanically inclined hubby. We're pretty excited about this. I had red light treatment after my son was born. Mom's will understand what for, and that was 25 years ago! So the idea has been around a while.

              I am SHOCKED at the prices I found on the Internet for the devices. There is no reason for it, IMO.

              I'm having Gemini done (in 1.5 hours and counting...) and wonder if I can use the red LED treatment to facilitate a quicker recovery. I welcome all opinions on that! I don't want to make it worse and I'm a rather impatient sort

              Thanks much.
              Twickle Purple.

              Happiness is a choice.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by redhotoz
                Phototherapy Level I: An Introduction to Light as a Therapeutic Modality

                Beginning with brief general comments regarding the use of phototherapy equipment, it presents a summary of the physics, technology, and physiological effects of light along with step-by-step instructions and illustration on how to use the equipment. Clear-cut, complete and current, this guide blends practical application with scientific rationale in the application of phototherapy as a therapeutic modality. Readers will become adept at appropriately and safely employing low level lasers and upper luminous diodes into a rehabilitation program. More than a simplistic how-to-guide, this book will challenge its readers to think critically when mapping out the best treatment options with optimal use of phototherapy.
                Hi Steve

                I think it is important to differentiate between low level lasers and low level red light therapy. There is a very big difference between lasers and red light therapy.
                You do use diodes though, no? This book sounds like it covers everything, including the mechanism of action, which is what I'm really interested in.
                KNOWLEDGE = POWER

                Comment


                • #38
                  Hi Steve

                  Yes, Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) made up in panels. I am not sure what "upper luminous diodes" are? Maybe the same thing, I don't know? I suppose I could run a Google search but I haven't the energy right now. David may be able to answer this question.

                  Go on, buy the book and inform us! LOL My concern was the mention of lasers and I just wanted to make it clear that lasers are very different from what the trial will be done with.

                  Jen
                  Currently trying: Apr 06 Bee Wilder's Candida (natural healing) Diet; May 06 Home made red LED array; Aug 06 ZZ ointment.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by clsykes00
                    What is the mechanism by which RLT improves rosacea (i.e. if anti-inflamatory is the answer, what is the reason for the anti-inflamatory action)?
                    Maybe people did not see this question. I will repost because I am geniunely curious:

                    What is the mechanism by which RLT improves rosacea (i.e. if anti-inflamatory is the answer, what is the reason for the anti-inflamatory action)?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Hi Trey

                      As you would be aware, red light therapy has not yet been clinically proven for Rosacea and this is why it is exciting news to know that a trial will be undertaken by Dr Chu. At this point in time, we can only go by anecdotal reports from fellow Rosaceans.

                      However, there have been numerous studies done/articles published on wound healing with red light therapy. Here is one of them:

                      http://www.warp-heals.com/pdf/NASA_news_12_00.pdf

                      "The near infrared light emitted by these LEDs seems to be perfect for increasing energy inside cells. ...the LEDs boost energy to the cells and boost healing."

                      It's in PDF, so to save me the typing, please do click on the link. It makes for interesting reading.

                      Here's a video where Dr Whelan talks about the use of a red light probe for tumours:

                      http://www.msfc.nasa.gov/news/news/v...ideo99-252.htm

                      This one details with a study of LEDs on diabetic mice:

                      http://www.warp-heals.com/pdf/DiabeticMice_JCLMS.pdf

                      "Light-Emitting Diodes (LED), originally developed for NASA plant growth experiments in space, show promise for delivering light deep into tissues of the body to promote would healing and human tissue growth."

                      "...LEDs offer an effective alernative to lasers...and produce no heat. ...It is also of importance to note that LED light therapy has been deemed a nonsignficant risk by the FDA; thus FDA approval for the LEDs in humans for light therapy has been obtained."

                      "...LEDs stimulate the basic energy processes in the mitochondria (energy compartments) of each cell particularly when near infrared red light is used to activate the wavelength sensitive constituents inside (chromophores, cytochrome systems)."

                      Again, this is PDF, so for more details, please click on the link.

                      More:

                      http://www.warp-heals.com/pdf/670nm.pdf

                      http://www.warp-heals.com/pdf/WoundHealing_JCLMS.pdf

                      http://www.warp-heals.com/pdf/DARPA_..._Self_Care.pdf

                      "...release of growth factors from cells...antioxidant production..."

                      Too hard to type out all the points! I hate PDFs! LOL You can find the above articles from this link, plus more:

                      http://www.warp-heals.com/clinical_research.htm

                      Now, this is just one site and there are many more out there on the Net. I have more sites book marked but this lot makes for good reading. Yes, nothing that specifically relates to Rosacea but we can, at this point in time, only take info from existing studies.

                      Oh, this one in MedScape is also very informative:

                      http://www.medscape.com Article 499713 (you will need a log-in)

                      Light Emitting Diode-Based Therapy

                      "Several lamps that generate visible light, many of them using light-emitting diodes (LEDs), have recently found their way to the dermatologic armamentarium. Claims of their value in the treatment of a variety of conditions ranging from cosmetic (antiwrinkle) to acne, rosacea, and skin cancer are made to market them. The literature promoting these claims is limited and often questionable, however, dermatologists who own these units often report demand for their use, high customer satisfaction, and a sense that they deliver on their promises, despite a lack of clinical evidence from properly controlled studies. This article reviews promotional as well as relevant scientific literature (indexed on Medline) regarding LED-based devices and other units that deliver visible light at sub-intense fluences. Both types of literature were evaluated for their scientific validity of content. Photodynamic therapy used with exogenous photosensitizers such as aminolevulinic acid is beyond the scope of this review.

                      Acne/Rosacea

                      Blue light (407-420 nm) and red light (633- 660 nm) are promoted for the treatment of acne. They work by exciting high amounts of intracellular porphyrins naturally generated by Propionibacterium acnes (P. acnes). These endogenous porphyrins (mainly coproporphyrin III[1]) photosensitize the bacterium and, upon illumination, result in the formation of singlet oxygen, which combines with cell membranes to destroy the P. acnes. This process is dependent on the rate of production of excited porphyrin molecules, which is influenced by the concentration of porphyrins, the concentration of photons, the temperature, and the wavelength of the photons.[2]

                      Blue light and blue-red combinations have demonstrated efficacy in mild to moderate inflammatory acne, having a physical modality comparable to treatment with topical clindamycin but inferior to benzoyl peroxide plus clindamycin.[3] The viability of 24-hour in vitro P. acnes cultures was reduced by four and five orders of magnitude after two and three illuminations, respectively, with intense blue light (407-420 nm).[4] In a randomized controlled trial evaluating the use of blue light (peak at 415 nm) and mixed blue and red light (peaks at 415 and 660 nm, respectively) in the treatment of mild to moderate acne vulgaris, a mean improvement of 76% in inflammatory lesions was achieved by the combination blue-red light phototherapy after 12 weeks of daily treatment. This result was statistically superior to that achieved by blue light at Weeks 4 and 8 ( p =0.02); benzoyl peroxide at Weeks 8 ( p =0.02) and 12 ( p =0.006); and white light at all assessments ( p <0.001)[5] (See Table 1 for sources of blue and red light).

                      Wound Healing/Antiaging

                      The wound-healing process has been used in the rejuvenative model. This process consists of overlapping phases of inflammation, proliferation, and remodeling. During inflammation, neutrophils, leukocytes, monocytes, and/or macrophages migrate to the site of the wound; monocytes differentiate into phagocytic cells to phagocytose debris and secrete growth factors. Complement system proteins are activated, stimulating mast cell degranulation and attracting more neutrophils. Macrophages release platelet-derived growth factor, which stimulates the chemotaxis and proliferation of fibroblasts. Leukocytes and macrophages also secrete fibroblast growth factor, which promotes the recruitment and growth of more fibroblasts, establishing the proliferative phase of the wound-healing process.[6,7] Leukocyte numbers decrease, and macrophages begin to diminish slowly as fibroblast levels peak days later. The remodeling phase begins with a fall in the number of fibroblasts; active fibroblasts either differentiate into myofibroblasts or dedifferentiate into dormant fibrocytes. The fibroblast plays a key role in the dermis during the second and third phases: it not only synthesizes collagen and elastin but also regulates the homeostasis of the ground substance in addition to maintaining the collagen fibers. Myofibroblasts position themselves along collagen fibers and exert a longitudinal force that tightens and aligns the latter. Remodeling may take 3-6 months or longer. The end result is the deposition of new collagen fibers in a better organized cellular matrix accompanied by elastogenesis and angiogenesis. A layer of new, tightly-organized collagen runs below and is attached to the basement membrane of the dermoepidermal junction.

                      Red light (633 nm) may aid in effectively healing long-term torpid ulcers and may enhance angiogenesis in the rabbit ear chamber model.[8] Six hundred thirty-three nm light significantly stimulates a faster and better linearly-oriented monolayer formation of fibroblasts in vitro as compared with controls. It accelerates mast cell degranulation and increases the synthesis of fibroblast growth factor from photoactivated macrophage-like cells.[9,10] Irradiation with low-level narrowband 660 nm red light induced the release of growth factors from macrophages in vitro and significantly improved postoperative wounds in vivo.[11,12]

                      Red light, in the absence of a wound, may be beneficial as an antiaging therapy. Mast cells are always present in the dermis; 633 nm red light may have the same effect on them regardless of their involvement in the inflammatory process. The surrounding tissue recognizes this degranulation as inflammation, and so the wound healing process is jump-started. Visible yellow light (588 nm) may also be beneficial as antiaging therapy through mechanisms similar to the action of red light (see Gentlewaves, Light BioScience, LLC, Virgina Beach, VA; please see Table 1 for sources of red light).

                      Instruments

                      The Omnilux system (Alderm, NA, LLC, Irvine, CA) uses a panel of 2000 focused diodes in interchangeable heads to deliver 408 nm blue or 633 nm red light. These two can be used alone or in sequence. The red module may be beneficial in aging via the preferential degranulation of mast cells; release of glucosamines, heparin (a glycosaminoglycan) and histamine, which induce vasodilatation; the "strengthening" of capillaries; increased tissue oxygenation; promoting epithelial remodeling; and stimulation of fibroblasts to produce collagen and elastin. Glycosaminoglycans replace water between collagen and elastic fibers, firming the skin. The use of the blue and red modules concurrently is claimed to be beneficial in acne as the red light module targets deeper-seated lesions. Treatment usually consists of two sessions per week for 4 weeks. A typical session takes ≈20 minutes.

                      The Delphia del SOL (Edge Systems Corp., Signal Hill, CA) is a three-in-one system that combines microdermabrasion, lymphatic massage, and LED light therapy. The LEDs can emit light at 430 nm (blue), 600-700 nm (red), and 700-1000 nm (infrared) in a nonpulsed, continuous wave. The LEDs are positioned on two handpieces.

                      TheMax7(Flip4Inc.,Sainte-Julie,Quebec,Canada) unites LED technology with an automated robotized arm. It can deliver seven wavelengths of visible light, ranging from 420 nm to 700 nm. The manufacturers claim that each chosen wavelength has a customized modulation program that ensures maximum skin rejuvenation. It has seven programmed polychromatic treatments and seven programmed monochromatic treatments designed for various skin types and various skin treatments, respectively. Manufacturers recommend a minimum of six treatments for most common skin conditions.

                      The Medilite (Inner Act LLC, Reno, NV) system delivers 405 nm blue light for the treatment of acne and 627 nm red light for skin rejuvenation in a tabletop unit. The light modules are removable and interchangeable with mixable blue and red wavelengths. The red light module is used to increase new tissue growth, speed healing, stimulate collagen, and reduce lines and wrinkles. It incorporates a computerized controlpanel for ease of use.

                      Gentlewaves is marketed as a photomodulation device that uses low-intensity LEDs in a proprietary pulsed "code" as antiaging therapy. It delivers pulsed visible yellow light (588 nm ± 10 nm) from two contiguous LED panels. It is claimed to "energize" mitochondria, send cell signals to cell receptors, increase/decrease gene activity in DNA, and thus reverse the appearance of aging and photoaged skin. It incorporates a skin care kit designed to enhance and maintain the results of the treatment, which includes a cleanser, a daily facial lotion, a nightly facial lotion, and sunscreen. The effectiveness of this device is documented by histology exhibiting new collagen formulation, high resolution ultrasound, and PRIMOS digital surface profilometry.[13]

                      The LumiPhase-R system (OPUSMED Inc., Montreal, Canada) features 18 linear LED array modules that deliver high power density 660 nm visible red light for skin rejuvenation. It uses a proprietary sequential mode that is claimed to trigger significantly higher procollagen secretion vs. control in human reconstructed skin models. It also claims to improve skin roughness, depth of rhytides, skin tone, texture, pore size, dyspigmentation and erythema; pre-and posttreatment PRIMOS 3D-micro-topography was used for these measurements. It has an optical positioning system to ensure optimal placement of the LED modules.

                      The Revitalight system (Skincare Technology Inc., Chicago, IL) claims to be a safe and effective way to help diminish the visible appearance of fine lines, wrinkles, and age spots on the face, neck, and hands by promoting collagen firmness by using LED photo pulsation technology. It delivers four specific wavelengths of light (420 nm, 590 nm [yellow], 625 nm, and 940 nm [infrared]) via handheld "pulsators." It uses an optical lens to focus the LEDs.

                      The Soli-Tone system (Silhouet-Tone, St. Albans, VT) is a two-in-one system that includes LumiLift and LumiFacial. LumiLift involves delivering 640 nm red LED light from handheld pieces placed on the skin. These pieces also deliver a "micronized current" and a "high-frequency polarized current" via electrodes placed in the handpieces. LumiFacial is comprised of a 400-LED panel situated above the skin. This panel can deliver four wavelengths of light: 470 nm, 525 nm (green), 590 nm, and 640 nm. It has a computerized control panel with preprogrammed treatments.

                      Conclusions

                      The level of evidence for the use of sub-intense fluences of visible light in dermatology is weak. As few randomized controlled trials have assessed the safety and efficacy of these devices, the dermatologist is left to infer the worthiness of incorporating LED-based technology from in vitro observations, anecdotal evidence, and commentaries appearing in trade (mostly non-peer-reviewed) publications.

                      The uncontrolled proliferation of services based on these devices at cosmetic/aesthetic locales where the personnel have little if any knowledge of dermatology and photobiology may be dangerous. Regulations that apply in many states to the use of lasers and intense pulsated light sources should be expanded to include these devices as the benefits (and risks) of their use in acne, rosacea, wound healing, aging, etc. (mostly medical diagnoses) relate to altering the structure and function of the skin, which constitutes the practice of medicine."

                      I do also have another interesting article in PDF that I can e-mail to anyone. It was e-mailed to me and I can't work out how to get a link for it. I think it was a paid article? Anyway, I have it if anyone wants it. Just e-mail me from the link below.

                      Jen
                      Currently trying: Apr 06 Bee Wilder's Candida (natural healing) Diet; May 06 Home made red LED array; Aug 06 ZZ ointment.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Blimey Jen !

                        That's going to keep some of us quiet over the weekend but at least the World Cup is over now

                        Many thanks and you have certainly done your homework and that's a much more comprehensive collection of information than I have here. In the early days I spoke very frequently to Adrian Warburton and Derek his colleague about treating rosacea with red light because in 1998 it had never been tried although the red / blue combination was clinically proven to be of benefit to over 70% of acne sufferers. I felt it would work and they gave me much encouragement by telling me about the other medical conditions that various light sources including red had helped people.

                        Adrian did actually put together his own little piece on Phototherapy which is on a PDF and I can e mail it you - unless I have already in the past ?

                        Best wishes

                        Peter

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          The end result is the deposition of new collagen fibers in a better organized cellular matrix accompanied by elastogenesis and angiogenesis.
                          Red light (633 nm) may aid in effectively healing long-term torpid ulcers and may enhance angiogenesis in the rabbit ear chamber model.[8]
                          "...release of growth factors from cells...antioxidant production..."
                          Isn't angiogenesis something rosaceans should avoid?
                          KNOWLEDGE = POWER

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The wound-healing properties of red light don't appear to come into effect with rosacea at the energy levels used. That's why I was so cautious when I was building my own array models--I didn't know where that cut-off point was. The energy levels used for red LLLT are really low, though, so you're basically dealing with the anti-inflammatory action. Wound-healing and angiogenic levels are higher and you use it differently; I think it's something like 4 joules/cm2 and you expose your skin for a short amount of time. I'd have to dig up a reference for you, to confirm that, though.

                            David
                            35 year-old male
                            Erythmatotelangiectatic rosacea & Ocular
                            20 + laser treatments.
                            Toleraine Soothing Light Facial Fluid for moisturizer. I don't use a special cleanser. Clonidine daily; klonopin sometimes.
                            BEST and CURRENT TREATMENT I use: Low-Level Red Light Therapy LED array.
                            Please feel free to PM me with your low-level red light therapy (LLRLT) questions. I'm happy to help if I can.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              David, have you tried treating your Raynaud's yet?

                              Might we speculate that more powerful arrays, at perhaps infrared levels, might be more fit for the purpose?

                              Cheers

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Not yet. Infrared may indeed be more helpful--I have no idea. Those LEDs are more expensive than 660nm ones, though. Setting up an array with several hundred 880nm LEDs would be quite pricey.
                                35 year-old male
                                Erythmatotelangiectatic rosacea & Ocular
                                20 + laser treatments.
                                Toleraine Soothing Light Facial Fluid for moisturizer. I don't use a special cleanser. Clonidine daily; klonopin sometimes.
                                BEST and CURRENT TREATMENT I use: Low-Level Red Light Therapy LED array.
                                Please feel free to PM me with your low-level red light therapy (LLRLT) questions. I'm happy to help if I can.

                                Comment

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