Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why do people's faces have a burn/sting feeling when they have Rosacea?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why do people's faces have a burn/sting feeling when they have Rosacea?

    What I mean is what is the action in the body that is causing this. The only two theories I can guess is:- damaged capillaries leaking warm blood into skin tissues or just extreme widening (dilation) of blood vessels makes a higher supply if blood run to the face.

    I feel it most in the skin beneath my eyes where my orbitals bones are. And also my
    nasolabial fold area.

    What do you think?

  • #2
    This is an interesting topic. I have suffered with rosacea for years, and the burning is the worst symptom for me. Its often coupled with redness but even when I have mild flushing and redness, the burning will still be brutal. I find it hard to get my head around whether its inflammtion leading to the burning or over-active blood vessels.

    Comment


    • #3
      What the process is that causes the stinging/burning is inflammation and the inflammatory theory on the cause of rosacea has been around for a very long time. That is why low dose antibiotics, i.e., Oracea, are used for its anti-inflammatory effects.
      Last edited by Brady Barrows; 22 March 2020, 06:21 PM.
      Brady Barrows
      Blog - Join the RRDi


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LawrenceK View Post
        What I mean is what is the action in the body that is causing this. The only two theories I can guess is:- damaged capillaries leaking warm blood into skin tissues or just extreme widening (dilation) of blood vessels makes a higher supply if blood run to the face.

        I feel it most in the skin beneath my eyes where my orbitals bones are. And also my
        nasolabial fold area.

        What do you think?
        The stinging is from inflammation of the facial nerves i.e. neurogenic / neuropathic inflammation (doxycycline will not help neuropathic inflammation- only medication aimed at neuropathic pain will work e.g. amitriptyline).
        The burning ( if you mean flushing) is most likely from the capillaries / vessels leaking blood which leads to edema from the leaked fluid. Doxycycline may ( but may not) help this- this is why people take clonidine / propranonol / aspirin-to curb the flushing.
        Doxycycline seems to work great for the rosacea with spots.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Momof View Post
          The stinging is from inflammation of the facial nerves i.e. neurogenic / neuropathic inflammation (doxycycline will not help neuropathic inflammation- only medication aimed at neuropathic pain will work e.g. amitriptyline).
          The burning ( if you mean flushing) is most likely from the capillaries / vessels leaking blood which leads to edema from the leaked fluid. Doxycycline may ( but may not) help this- this is why people take clonidine / propranonol / aspirin-to curb the flushing.
          Doxycycline seems to work great for the rosacea with spots.
          do you know if there are any equivalents of plants / herbs for this type of thing? Which help for neuropathic pain?
          My skin condition was quite good but laser Cutera Excel V destroyed everything.
          * I get better thanks to natural things and it is lighter but the baking problem persists. I think this laser has damaged something deeper in the skin, maybe my nerves hope that it will improve gradually.
          Last edited by przemek; 22 March 2020, 09:15 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            I found here an interesting article and some plants that can help with neuropathic pain. I think it can work well in synergy. Not all simultaneous, but several plants at once. I have to try

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5960749/

            Acorus calamus
            Artemisia dracunculus
            Butea monosperma,
            Citrullus colocynthis
            Curcuma longa
            Crocus sativus
            Elaeagnus angustifolia
            Ginkgo biloba
            Mitragyna speciosa
            Momordica charantia
            Nigella sativa
            Ocimum sanctum,
            Phyllanthus amarus,
            Pterodon pubescens Benth,
            Rubia cordifolia
            Salvia officinalis.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Momof View Post
              The stinging is from inflammation of the facial nerves i.e. neurogenic / neuropathic inflammation (doxycycline will not help neuropathic inflammation- only medication aimed at neuropathic pain will work e.g. amitriptyline).
              The burning ( if you mean flushing) is most likely from the capillaries / vessels leaking blood which leads to edema from the leaked fluid. Doxycycline may ( but may not) help this- this is why people take clonidine / propranonol / aspirin-to curb the flushing.
              Doxycycline seems to work great for the rosacea with spots.
              There are a number of theories on the cause of rosacea. Usually a rosacean becomes passionate about one of these theories and dismisses or ignores the others. As for the nervous system theory which has emerged in more recent years, it connects with the inflammatory theory, and has the old chicken or egg quandary, which came first? For example, this quote:

              "Thus, an activated nervous system in the skin correlates well with the early phase of rosacea, although it is still unclear whether neuronal activation precedes or follows the inflammatory infiltrate. The extent to which the autonomic and/or sensory nervous system is involved in the neuronal dysregulation during rosacea has received considerable attention, as modulation of α-adrenergic receptors or β-adrenergic blockers is helpful in some patients (Craige and Cohen, 2005; Shanler and Ondo, 2007; Gallo et al., 2010)." [1]

              Also related to this is the Trigeminal sensory malfunction theory which also has the same chicken or egg quandary. Note what one paper says about this theory:

              "Bearing in mind this important feature, we should consider whether the chronic facial dermatitis of rosacea can be facilitated by neurogenic inflammation via trigeminal sensory afferents and also whether chronically inflamed skin in rosacea can sensitize trigeminal sensory afferents." [2]

              What has actually become the more popular theory on the cause of rosacea is the Immune System Disorder Theory [ISDT] which, in turn, circles back to the vascular theory on the cause of rosacea which predominated as the leading cause of rosacea for years since the ISDT uses the vasculary system, so in essence, ISDT is a sub category of the vasculary theory. The number of theories on what causes rosacea continues to grow and without a doubt will continue to grow. This post is worth considering on this subject. And with recent development of using Hydroxychloroquine is a novel therapeutic approach for rosacea, virus hasn't been ruled out as a cause for rosacea either. The president announced this past week that hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) has been approved by the FDA to treat COVID-19. To repeat, virus has never been ruled out in rosacea. There is a paper that indicates using Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) to treat rosacea "exerted satisfactory therapeutic effects on erythema and inflammatory lesions of rosacea patients, indicating that it is a promising drug for rosacea in clinical treatment." Duff Man told us about this a while back that it worked for him. Another anti-viral, Acyclovir, was also successful in treating rosacea. Nellukas, a member at RF reports taking two 200 mg tablets twice daily after meals and states, "To my surprise, rosacea started to recede a few days after I started the regimen!!" In post no 16 on 2/4/19 he reports, "Overall, general redness is down 95%, hardened skin is down 98% and papulous pustules down by 100%."

              Wouldn't it be incredible if any rosaceans who are treated with hydroxycholoroquine for COVID-19 also discovered that their rosacea improves or clears up! Is virus involved in rosacea?

              "Recognition of bacteria and viruses [bold added] initiates the inflammatory cascade involving the release of cytokines, recruitment of immune cells, and production of AMPs and ISGs. AMPs and ISGs represent one of the most important and robust immune mechanisms in the skin. However, pathogenic bacteria—such as S. aureus—and cutaneous viruses [bold added] have evolved mechanisms to counteract innate immune mechanisms." [3]

              So I wouldn't be too stuck on one theory since all the theories have connections.

              End notes

              [1] J Investig Dermatol Symp Proc. Author manuscript; available in PMC 2013 Jul 8.
              Published in final edited form as:
              J Investig Dermatol Symp Proc. 2011 Dec; 15(1): 2–11.
              doi: 10.1038/jidsymp.2011.7
              PMCID: PMC3704130
              NIHMSID: NIHMS479650
              Clinical, Cellular, and Molecular Aspects in the Pathophysiology of Rosacea
              Martin Steinhoff, Jörg Buddenkotte, Jerome Aubert, Mathias Sulk, Pawel Novak, Verena D. Schwab, Christian Mess, Ferda Cevikbas, Michel Rivier, Isabelle Carlavan, Sophie Déret, Carine Rosignoli, Dieter Metze, Thomas A. Luger, and Johannes J. Voegel

              [2] J Invest Dermatol. Author manuscript; available in PMC 2017 Jul 31.
              J Invest Dermatol. 2017 Apr; 137(4): 801–804.doi: 10.1016/j.jid.2016.12.013 - PMCID: PMC5536341-NIHMSID: NIHMS876146
              TRPV4 Moves toward Center-Fold in Rosacea Pathogenesis
              Yong Chen, Carlene D. Moore, Jennifer Y. Zhang, Russell P. Hall, III, Amanda S. MacLeod, and Wolfgang Liedtke

              [3] PLoS Pathog. 2018 Dec; 14(12): e1007353.
              Innate antimicrobial immunity in the skin: A protective barrier against bacteria, viruses, and fungi
              Margaret Coates, Sarah Blanchard, and Amanda S. MacLeod
              Deborah A. Hogan, Editor
              Last edited by Brady Barrows; 23 March 2020, 06:13 PM.
              Brady Barrows
              Blog - Join the RRDi


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by przemek View Post
                do you know if there are any equivalents of plants / herbs for this type of thing? Which help for neuropathic pain?
                My skin condition was quite good but laser Cutera Excel V destroyed everything.
                * I get better thanks to natural things and it is lighter but the baking problem persists. I think this laser has damaged something deeper in the skin, maybe my nerves hope that it will improve gradually.
                I've been using essential oils topically for about 3 days now and to be completely honest unbelievably it's reduced my burning pain and also decreased the redness slightly. I use about 80% organic avocado oil as a base oil then add 3-5 drops of safflower oil, jojoba oil, grapeseed oil, pomegranate seed oil (all can be bought on Amazon). I then just mixed these with my finger. I applied a layer over my whole face and massaged it with circular motions, pressing enough to make my skin Blanche where the spider veins are and bad red areas for about 5 minutes (this is toning the stretched capillaries). Then I pat my face softly with a towel so it doesn't drip, and go to sleep, when I wake up in the morning I wash my face with water and can feel the difference. I've read from bloggers that this is a slow process to completely cure rosacea like 6 months + every night applying these oils but it's 100% safe unlike lasers.

                I've been researching online and a lot of these oils especially avocado oil repairs damaged capillaries, repairs nerve damage, cell damage, dna damage, repairs the skins natural barrier, protects against uv damage etc.

                I made a post like a week ago because my skin is so sensitive and cannot tolerate moisturisers without getting redder and I was debating whether or not to get a v beam. When I started using these after a few days I noticed a big difference.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LawrenceK View Post
                  I've been using essential oils topically for about 3 days now and to be completely honest unbelievably it's reduced my burning pain and also decreased the redness slightly. I use about 80% organic avocado oil as a base oil then add 3-5 drops of safflower oil, jojoba oil, grapeseed oil, pomegranate seed oil (all can be bought on Amazon). I then just mixed these with my finger. I applied a layer over my whole face and massaged it with circular motions, pressing enough to make my skin Blanche where the spider veins are and bad red areas for about 5 minutes (this is toning the stretched capillaries). Then I pat my face softly with a towel so it doesn't drip, and go to sleep, when I wake up in the morning I wash my face with water and can feel the difference. I've read from bloggers that this is a slow process to completely cure rosacea like 6 months + every night applying these oils but it's 100% safe unlike lasers.

                  I've been researching online and a lot of these oils especially avocado oil repairs damaged capillaries, repairs nerve damage, cell damage, dna damage, repairs the skins natural barrier, protects against uv damage etc.

                  I made a post like a week ago because my skin is so sensitive and cannot tolerate moisturisers without getting redder and I was debating whether or not to get a v beam. When I started using these after a few days I noticed a big difference.
                  That’s great. You have absolutely nothing to lose by doing that because it can only help your skin barrier. Keep us posted on your progress.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LawrenceK View Post
                    I've been using essential oils topically for about 3 days.....
                    I can't use any oils in these places. I am then inflamed in these places. Perhaps they are also some microorganisms and oils nourish them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by przemek View Post
                      I can't use any oils in these places. I am then inflamed in these places. Perhaps they are also some microorganisms and oils nourish them.
                      Try avocado oil, it's like the softest & most tolerable of all oils. I have very inflamed/burning skin on most of face and it was the only thing I've been able to apply and leave on for many hours without making it worse. Some oils like lavender or peppermint can cause bad reactions because it has a fragrance. But there's like a 90%+ chance avocado oil will feel fine on your skin.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Momof View Post
                        That’s great. You have absolutely nothing to lose by doing that because it can only help your skin barrier. Keep us posted on your progress.
                        Today a new paper has been released discussing that Rosacea is Characterized by a Profoundly Diminished Skin Barrier
                        Brady Barrows
                        Blog - Join the RRDi


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
                          Today a new paper has been released discussing that Rosacea is Characterized by a Profoundly Diminished Skin Barrier

                          Good find Brady! I can't speak for type 2, but type 1 rosacea seems to be caused by a combination of thin skin (makes skin more translucent, redness more prominent) + destroyed skin barrier (allows irritants and toxins to get deep into skins layers and inflame blood capillaries) then one other factor such as sun damage, inflammation in gut, heart problems etc.* I think a deficient skin barrier contributes to the development of rosacea; however I don't believe the skin barrier itself was weakened by rosacea.

                          For myself, I think my redness has not been able to lighten because my skin is unable to repair itself but hopefully if I fix the skin barrier it will then be able to regenerate and repair damaged cells.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
                            Today a new paper has been released discussing that Rosacea is Characterized by a Profoundly Diminished Skin Barrier
                            All the more reason to avoid lasers etc. They only weaken the skin barrier, thus worsening the problem. If the barrier is weak, the nerves, capillaries etc don’t have enough “cover” to protect them.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Momof View Post
                              All the more reason to avoid lasers etc. They only weaken the skin barrier, thus worsening the problem. If the barrier is weak, the nerves, capillaries etc don’t have enough “cover” to protect them.
                              so now I know that lasers are harmful in the long run .. A lot of people are a victim of corporate marketing. This world is largely built on lies, manipulation and exploitation.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X