SURVEY | Effectiveness of light therapy for rosacea and/or seborrheic dermatitis

[findingaway]

Hi,

I have created a Survey Monkey to gauge the effectiveness of light therapy for rosacea and/or seborrheic dermatitis.

It's 10 questions, everything from skin type, symptoms before treatment to effectiveness of treatment and side effects (if any).

I wanted to make the survey results available to all at the click of a button at the outset, but it'll cost £24 a month to do that, so I will just have to release the info periodically - unless someone has a better idea. I would do a poll on here, but the options are too limited.

Anyway, would really appreciate your responses as it could potentially help a lot of people. And please tell me if you think any of it needs changing!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TDFK7LV

[Rand627]

Just so you know, people are going to have to control copy the address to their address bar. The hyperlink doesn't work.

[findingaway]

Just so you know, people are going to have to control copy the address to their address bar. The hyperlink doesn't work.

Thanks for pointing that out

I'll try again: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TDFK7LV

Or click here

[Rand627]

No problem! I would take it but I've never used a RLT before. Definitely thinking about buying one though so I'll have to check out the results.

[findingaway]

Me too. Whats putting you off?

For me it's -

• Will it damage my eyes?
• Improve my SD or make it worse?
• Do I need infrared?
• What's the best light wavelength (I've heard it said that 620-640nm is the most effective)
• Will it make my skin dryer as it stops the skin producing so much oil?

[Rand627]

Mostly the price. If I did buy one it would be the portable 140 or so dollar one from the LEDman place.

As far as I've heard red is by far the most commonly used and supposedly the most convenient. Infrared is kind of an extra that works for some and doesnt for others.

If I had to buy a single unit with a single LED type it would definitely be red. I don't have SD so I don't have to worry about that.

[findingaway]

If I didIf I had to buy a single unit with a single LED type it would definitely be red. I don't have SD so I don't have to worry about that.

Lucky you

I am swinging torwards the LEDman too. Yeah, they are pricey!

[phlika29]

Just bumping this thread up for you

[findingaway]

Future research

Just bumping this thread up for you

Thank you!

I don't suppose you could fix the link in the first post could you?

PS - By complete chance had a conversation with a scientist this afternoon. Couldn't believe my luck. I was on the phone for nearly an hour and a half!

EYES

In a nutshell, he basically said that all light wavelengths are OK to use with your eyes closed - infrared and blue and all. BUT - not UV!! AND - don't stare at blue, cos that will damage your eyes after a few minutes.

It makes sense as you can comfortably stare directly at the sun with your eyes closed although I wouldn't recommend trying this.

ALTERNATIVE RED / INFRARED

I don't know all the detail yet, but basically red and infrared have different effects and can compliment each other. Although by no means perfect, they have been experimenting with a protocol and found that light therapy is more effective if you use red light and infrared alternatively.

As I say I don't know the ratio, but for arguments sake lets say 2 days red, one day infrared. This way, they help each other to heal the skin (i'm talking really basic terms here!)

POWER OUTPUT

He also said that the other element everyone misses out on is the Joules of the units. It might be the right wavelength, such as 633-660mn or 830-880mn but only have 1-2 Joules, which means you'll be there all day and not really get a result. He said that the range should be between 50-70 Joules for it to be of benefit over say a 15 minute period.

WAVELENGTHS

In terms of the ranges, optimum range for collagen production is 633mn and optimum range for infrared is 830mn - BUT, it really isn't going to make much odds if you unit is 660mn or 880mn.

SEBORRHEIC DERMATITIS

In terms of Seborrheic Dermatitis, he said he wasn't sure what might help, however in his opinion he said blue light (nearer to violet) might be best. Now this makes sense as if you think about it, sun bathing usually helps SD, so getting nearer the UV range (without the UV) may help.

OCULAR ROSACEA

Blue, red and infrared is most likely going to help Ocular Rosacea. Interestingly, blue light will kill some bacteria that causes the inflammation in acne. Acne is caused because of overly oily skin, bacteria thrive and thus cause spots and inflammation. I believe the blue, red and infrared lights do this by the body producing an extra oxygen, which as it is on it's own, will desperately want to attach to another molecule, so attaches to the bacteria changing it's form and killing it - not 100% that is 100% correct, but it's something like that.

Basically, if lets take the meibomian glands for are blocked because of bacteria build up - which I believe they are (see below and here: http://www.dryeyezone.com/talk/showt...8157#post58157)...then, it is reasonable to assume that the blue/red/infrared may help to kill the bacteria in the same way! Here hopes.

Below is from a post on the dry eye forum - and he is actually talking about an eye drop called Azasite, but the science of what he is saying is interesting.

Moore778899,
Azasite is azithromycin, a next-generation erythromycin that kills staph aureus and a few other bacteria. Staph aureus is the normal bacteria that is on the skin and mucous membranes of the body. Staph is the main culprit in colonization of the meibomian glands caused by oils that move more slowly from the glands, thereby becoming a food source for the bacteria. The bacteria's waste products then further harden and stop movement of the oils, so that they're solid at room temperature when they should be liquid at room temperature. (kind of like trans-fats--naturally liquid but altered in the lab to be solid at room temperature) Colonization takes a long time to eradicate but I think I finally killed off enough of the staph by being on Azasite long term to be comfortable again with improved flow of liquid oils.

ROSACEA

Now, Rosacea. He said that they had done some pilot studies, but they were not prepared to say it helped Rosacea. Which was a little disappointing - but hey, if people on this forum are anything to go by, it's worth a shot! He did say that is had helped people with Rosacea though. I guess it didn't help everyone!

SIDE EFFECTS

I was also a little worried that RLT would dry out the skin as it supposedly stops the sebaceous glands from producing so much oil. Remembering that oily skin is skin that ages best and slowest, you want some oil. Dry skin will ironically lead to wrinkles and aged skin quicker then oily skin. BUT again, there are many more factors, diet, UV exposure, stress levels etc. He said IPL on a regular basis could lead to dry skin as it destroys the skin to produce a very effective result in many cases, but RTL does not destroy the skin at all and therefore there is no risk of overly dry skin.

RESEARCH

Now - this is not the firm I talked with or will be going with, but they do have some good links on their site. Here is a link to the research page: http://www.britebox-skin-rejuvenatio...n-research.php

Anyway - hope that helps!

[cameron]

Thank you!

I don't suppose you could fix the link in the first post could you?

PS - By complete chance had a conversation with a scientist this afternoon. Couldn't believe my luck. I was on the phone for nearly an hour and a half!

EYES

In a nutshell, he basically said that all light wavelengths are OK to use with your eyes closed - infrared and blue and all. BUT - not UV!! AND - don't stare at blue, cos that will damage your eyes after a few minutes.

It makes sense as you can comfortably stare directly at the sun with your eyes closed although I wouldn't recommend trying this.

ALTERNATIVE RED / INFRARED

I don't know all the detail yet, but basically red and infrared have different effects and can compliment each other. Although by no means perfect, they have been experimenting with a protocol and found that light therapy is more effective if you use red light and infrared alternatively.

As I say I don't know the ratio, but for arguments sake lets say 2 days red, one day infrared. This way, they help each other to heal the skin (i'm talking really basic terms here!)

POWER OUTPUT

He also said that the other element everyone misses out on is the Joules of the units. It might be the right wavelength, such as 633-660mn or 830-880mn but only have 1-2 Joules, which means you'll be there all day and not really get a result. He said that the range should be between 50-70 Joules for it to be of benefit over say a 15 minute period.

WAVELENGTHS

In terms of the ranges, optimum range for collagen production is 633mn and optimum range for infrared is 830mn - BUT, it really isn't going to make much odds if you unit is 660mn or 880mn.

SEBORRHEIC DERMATITIS

In terms of Seborrheic Dermatitis, he said he wasn't sure what might help, however in his opinion he said blue light (nearer to violet) might be best. Now this makes sense as if you think about it, sun bathing usually helps SD, so getting nearer the UV range (without the UV) may help.

OCULAR ROSACEA

Blue, red and infrared is most likely going to help Ocular Rosacea. Interestingly, blue light will kill some bacteria that causes the inflammation in acne. Acne is caused because of overly oily skin, bacteria thrive and thus cause spots and inflammation. I believe the blue, red and infrared lights do this by the body producing an extra oxygen, which as it is on it's own, will desperately want to attach to another molecule, so attaches to the bacteria changing it's form and killing it - not 100% that is 100% correct, but it's something like that.

Basically, if lets take the meibomian glands for are blocked because of bacteria build up - which I believe they are (see below and here: http://www.dryeyezone.com/talk/showt...8157#post58157)...then, it is reasonable to assume that the blue/red/infrared may help to kill the bacteria in the same way! Here hopes.

Below is from a post on the dry eye forum - and he is actually talking about an eye drop called Azasite, but the science of what he is saying is interesting.



ROSACEA

Now, Rosacea. He said that they had done some pilot studies, but they were not prepared to say it helped Rosacea. Which was a little disappointing - but hey, if people on this forum are anything to go by, it's worth a shot! He did say that is had helped people with Rosacea though. I guess it didn't help everyone!

SIDE EFFECTS

I was also a little worried that RLT would dry out the skin as it supposedly stops the sebaceous glands from producing so much oil. Remembering that oily skin is skin that ages best and slowest, you want some oil. Dry skin will ironically lead to wrinkles and aged skin quicker then oily skin. BUT again, there are many more factors, diet, UV exposure, stress levels etc. He said IPL on a regular basis could lead to dry skin as it destroys the skin to produce a very effective result in many cases, but RTL does not destroy the skin at all and therefore there is no risk of overly dry skin.

RESEARCH

Now - this is not the firm I talked with or will be going with, but they do have some good links on their site. Here is a link to the research page: http://www.britebox-skin-rejuvenatio...n-research.php

Anyway - hope that helps!

[cameron]

I have an all red 66nm from the led man. Great unit. Love it. No need to go to infared. It will not dry out your skin. It will moisturize it. I don't use eye protection but if you want go ahead and use it. Calms the skin down and reduces inflamation.

[findingaway]

I have an all red 66nm from the led man. Great unit. Love it. No need to go to infared. It will not dry out your skin. It will moisturize it. I don't use eye protection but if you want go ahead and use it. Calms the skin down and reduces inflamation.

Great to hear Cameron!

Maybe you could take the survey so we can start to build a picture of how RLT helps!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TDFK7LV

Or click here

[findingaway]

Great to hear Cameron!

Maybe you could take the survey so we can start to build a picture of how RLT helps!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TDFK7LV

Or click here

Would be great if more people could take the survey or suggest other places to post the link!

[findingaway]

Anonymous Survey

Just in case anyone was wondering, the survey is completely anonymous

[findingaway]

My experience with Red Light Therapy

OK. So last week I thought 'sod it', I've read enough and invested in a Red Light Unit.

I am still a little unsure as exactly how to proceed (how close to my face? cover my nose? how long for? use everyday?). But I did stumble upon a few different sites which detailed how they use the professional salon LED red light machines for rosacea and seeing as you can get the same overall power output from a handheld (all be it you have to use it for longer!), I have decided to follow those instructions, but to go slowly first.


Treatment instructions
The salon routine is 20 minutes, 2-3 cm from the face, red light, then at least 48 hours break before the next treatment. Max two treatments per week. This carries on for a number of weeks (around 5 I think). Why stop there? Especially seeing as you supposedly cannot overdo RLT and it helps control rosacea, but not cure it? Well quite frankly I am not sure!

I decided to go with this routine (at least to start with - I'm sure I will tinker with it) because others on there seem to have started really well with RLT and then ran into problems. I think this may be because the body cannot heal itself fast enough before more treatment is delivered. I suppose it's like having a really painful deep tissue massage and then going back day after day rather then giving the body a chance to recoup (but RLT doesn't hurt of course - just very relaxing).

Also, I read this thread which talks about a trial at Hammersmith Hospital involving red light therapy for rosacea which was to be conducted by Dr. Chu, who I believe was Peter's (a forum member who has used RLT with great success) dermatologist when he used the Acne Lamp to help his rosacea - Peter was one of the first to treat rosacea with RLT I think. Unfortunately the trial was never done in the end.

I could easily be well be wrong with this approach! Unfortunately only experimenting will reveal it

Prior to treatment
I have Ocular Rosacea and my cheeks burn (not so much recently) and are red. I also get red patches on my forehead and chin that will appear for a few hours, then go. I don't seem to flush to alcohol or foods, but sure do to emotional stress, exercise, sun, wind, cold and of course embarrassment. My rosacea has been getting steadily worse for about 8 months. The doc gave me Oracea, but since I don't have P&P it seemed pointless taking it. I take high dose vit d3, zinc, fish oils and vit c. Wash with Moroccan clay and use zinc sunblock.

Patch test
I did a patch test on the arm and left it 24 hours to make sure there were no adverse reactions. And then, yesterday, I started really slowly.

They say to do a patch test as some drugs can make you sensitive to RLT. Photosensitive I think they call it. Oh and apparently NSAIDs also interfere, so no Ibuprofen to cure a hangover for a while!

Day 1
Held it about 2 cm away from my face on red light only. It was right over one eye and most of the cheek. I had no eye protection - it says in the manual it is completely safe with the eyes. I did 5 mins, then swapped to the other side. Then did 5 mins on my forehead. I didn't cover my nose, but the unit was so close to my face that I don't think it mattered as no light shined on my nose.

Felt OK. Maybe a little flushed but OK. It was so bright that even with my eyes closed, I was temporally blinded when I stopped the treatment. When my vision came back, I was seeing things in a slightly different colour, very unnerving. It look 5 minutes for my vision to return to normal.

Then I had a beer and flushed really badly - full body. I don't flush to beer, so this was a surprise. I had a beer today again and flushed again but not as bad though and I was upset about something, so it could of been the emotional trigger (which is a normal trigger for me). I am having a beer right now and seem to be OK, so who knows!

Day 2

My face feels a little more sensitive today, but not more red. It burns a little on my cheeks (this is not uncommon for me, but recently with the addition of zinc, my face hasn't burned).