SURVEY | Effectiveness of light therapy for rosacea and/or seborrheic dermatitis

[findingaway]

Survey now working correctly

Hi,

Someone on another forum kindly pointed out that the survey wouldn't allow for multiple answers.

Now fixed so should work fine now!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TDFK7LV

[Rand627]

Please please keep us updated on how it goes. Especially with all of the details in your first post. I'm thinking about getting one and I'd love to see how it goes for you.

Thanks a bunch!

[findingaway]

Please please keep us updated on how it goes. Especially with all of the details in your first post. I'm thinking about getting one and I'd love to see how it goes for you.

Thanks a bunch!

Of course. Happy too.

Day 2...continued
My face looked less red for all of the 2nd day - apart from as mentioned the flush probably induced by emotion. Someone at work actually commented on how refreshed I looked. Of course I immediately thought 'am I flushed?!' I'm not sure that was anything to do with the RLT but rather the restful xmas break!

But I did experience the burning which I had managed to get rid of before starting RLT. It's so difficult to pin symptoms down on a cause sometimes. I don't know if the burning is back because of the RLT or because I stopped using the Good Skin - All Calm conditioner at the same time which seemed to be irritating.

Day 3
OK, so the redness is about the same as it has always been today. My skin doesn't feel sensitive like it did on day 2. But the burning is still with me

I, unfortunately, have discovered a new button on this forum. When you click on someone's name, you can view all their posts. So when I see someone has posted something positive about their RLT, I view their previous and future posts and find quite a few are still active on the forum and in some cases doing well and in others not so well!!

I am continuing to stick to my guns and go a few days break (or at least 48 hours) and then do another treatment.

I am too eager today, so being at least 48 hours, I prep myself for another RLT session. I wash my face and to my horror, my cheeks are redder then they usually are after a wash with a new red patch around the eye . I am hoping it is simply because I towel dried my face a little hard! I wait a while to see if the red goes. It doesn't. I decide to do a infrared RLT anyway. It's doubly annoying as I was looking in the car mirror before I came in and was thinking the redness was less! Although the car interior in light seems to flatter me anyway.

I really want to do longer and have to restrain myself to just do 5 mins on each cheek (inc eye) and my forehead. Unlike the Red, Infrared doesn't temporary blind me, which is nice!

Felt OK. Just looked in the mirror and the red from my flush is fading. I will wait another 48 hours and then do another red treatment. If I am going good, I am going to up it to 10 minutes.

[findingaway]

PS - Had to rush down because dinner was on the table. Forgot to mention that my eyes have been much better. Now I am not sure if this is a placebo effect or what (since RLT takes a while to work), but my eyes feel less gritty and dry.

The unit I have has two yellow LEDs to show that the Infrared is working and I make sure the yellow LED is on my eyelid as well as the Infrared. I do this because several people on the Dry Eye Forum reported benefits from yellow LEDs http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosa...p/t-11137.html

When I did the Red Light Treatment on the first day, I gave my eyelids a few minutes of the yellow light and covered the infrared.

My whole face has calmed down now and the burning has gone...thank goodness. Hopefully this is because of the Infrared. My face feels very calm actually.

[Rand627]

What unit are you using for all of these treatments? And why did you choose to go infrared over red? I was under the impression that red helped the most for the burning and flushing. Or at least, it was a much more common way to go.

[findingaway]

What unit are you using for all of these treatments? And why did you choose to go infrared over red? I was under the impression that red helped the most for the burning and flushing. Or at least, it was a much more common way to go.

Hi,

I'm using the Omnilux New-U. Apparently the power is the same as the Omnilux revive - which is the professional model (huge) - but this only covers a small area.

I went with the Infrared for two reasons. Firstly, although the Omnilux revive treatment protocol for rosacea is red only, I read that mixing infrared and red(http://www.consultingroom.com/News/D...re%92s%20LEDs?) between the Omnilux revive (all red) and Omnilux plus (infrared) increased the results (of wrinkle reduction and skin tone at least)

Finally, I red a post by Twinkle Purple who has been using RLT for a while and she said that infrared bolstered the effect more then just the red alone.

http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosa...10791-Infrared

Hi moomy,

A few of us mix red + near infrared. For me it enhances the positive benefits I get from using just red alone. I am very pale somedays. I check the mirror a lot on those days because it's fascinating -- my eye brows and hair look so much darker! I'm hoping that novelty wears off soon enough.

Goggles are important with near-infrared. You may want to scan through some of the threads, you'll glean more info that way.

I put this in another thread recently, it will help clarify the infrared misnnomer:

--

Red (or far red in the case of 660nm) falls in the (very) narrow visible light range. Infrared (which is not red at all) is invisible to the eye. Check out the 2 illustrations below. You will see the very large range within the infrared category.

LED therapy systems that I have seen which are near infrared have wavelengths that fall into the lower end of the near infrared range.

A little bit about infrared in general.

Infrared light lies between the visible and microwave portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. Infrared light has a range of wavelengths, just like visible light has wavelengths that range from red light to violet. "Near infrared" light is closest in wavelength to visible light and "far infrared" is closer to the microwave region of the electromagnetic spectrum. The longer, far infrared wavelengths are about the size of a pin head and the shorter, near infrared ones are the size of cells, or are microscopic.

Far infrared waves are thermal. In other words, we experience this type of infrared radiation every day in the form of heat! The heat that we feel from sunlight, a fire, a radiator or a warm sidewalk is infrared. The temperature-sensitive nerve endings in our skin can detect the difference between inside body temperature and outside skin temperature.

Infrared light is even used to heat food sometimes - special lamps that emit thermal infrared waves are often used in fast food restaurants!

Shorter, near infrared waves are not hot at all - in fact you cannot even feel them. These shorter wavelengths are the ones used by your TV's remote control.

How can we "see" using the Infrared?

Since the primary source of infrared radiation is heat or thermal radiation, any object which has a temperature radiates in the infrared. Even objects that we think of as being very cold, such as an ice cube, emit infrared. When an object is not quite hot enough to radiate visible light, it will emit most of its energy in the infrared. For example, hot charcoal may not give off light but it does emit infrared radiation which we feel as heat. The warmer the object, the more infrared radiation it emits.

Humans, at normal body temperature, radiate most strongly in the infrared at a wavelength of about 10 microns. (A micron is the term commonly used in astronomy for a micrometer or one millionth of a meter.)

[findingaway]

Protocol for Omnilux Revive

For your info: http://www.dermacaremedical.com/rosacea.php

How many Omnilux revive ™ treatments do I need for my Rosacea?
The Usual protocol for rosacea is 10 sessions. The treatments are performed twice a week during a 5-weeks period. There should be at least 48-hours rest time between treatments.

How long each treatment lasts?
20 minutes

This is obviously way cheaper

Interestingly on the Omnilux New-U box, it shows a series of pictures. The best results are after the treatment has been completed!

[Rand627]

Interesting. Do you mind posting a link to the exact one? I looked it up on google and found this..

http://www.amazon.com/Omnilux-new-U-Light-Techonology-wrinkles/dp/B001NLIWM8

But I'm not entirely sure that this is the one..maybe there's a different type for acne and such.

And do you know what the differences are between your product and what the LEDman offers?

http://www.theledman.com/handheld.html

They are pretty much identical in price, I wonder if one has more power than the other. Would be interesting if I could get access to more technical specs.

[findingaway]

Interesting. Do you mind posting a link to the exact one? I looked it up on google and found this..

http://www.amazon.com/Omnilux-new-U-Light-Techonology-wrinkles/dp/B001NLIWM8

But I'm not entirely sure that this is the one..maybe there's a different type for acne and such.

And do you know what the differences are between your product and what the LEDman offers?

http://www.theledman.com/handheld.html

They are pretty much identical in price, I wonder if one has more power than the other. Would be interesting if I could get access to more technical specs.

That's it. The one negative testimonial on Amazon did scare me, but I couldn't find any others like that, just all positive.

About power, this is the deal.

Power for these units is measured in mW/cm2. You can then eqaute that to Joules per minute. LEDman's and Elixa's units are about 25 mW/cm2, delivering 4 joules in about 4 minutes (never heard back from Britebox revive re their power output and not sure what the others are - you could prob google it, or email them) The Omnilux New-U is 55 mW/cm2 (for red, 70 mW/cm2 infrared). So double the power delivering 8-10 Joules in 4 minutes.

Work out equations here: http://www.dymax.com/literature/conversion-charts.php

But that isn't the only calculation that matters when working out power...

I posted a question on Yahoo Answers asking about power output and intensity of LEDs. An engineer answered and part of their reply was this:

In general, light intensity follows an inverse-square law. So, for instance, if you place the unit twice as far away, the intensity will be 1/4 as much. Place it 3 times farther, and the intensity will be 1/9. It's easy to see the reason for this. If you shine a light onto a flat surface, it illuminates a circle. If you double the distance, you'll double the diameter of the circle, which quadruples its area. So the same amount of light is shining on 4 times the area, which means each point on the larger circle receives 1/4 as much light. So you can also see that this doesn't apply to focused beams, or to lasers, because their light doesn't "spread out" the same way it does from a "normal" light bulb.


Now if I understand things correctly, having the unit right to your face, say 2 inches, is going to deliver much more power then 6 inches away. In fact, if the unit delivers 10 joules in 4 minutes at 2 inches (for example), then at 4 inches it will be delivering 2 Joules in 4 minutes. Even less for a less powerful unit. The instructions will tell you exactly how to do it if you buy it.

That would explain why many don't experience any benefit.

I understand this unit is as powerful as the Omnilux Revive (not to be confused with the Britebox Revive!) but because you need it so close, only covers a small area. But then we get into cellular communication

People clearly benefit from less powerful models and this I think comes down to a few factors.

• Lots use it everyday.
• The effects are cumulative.
• A less powerful unit will deliver the same power as a higher powered unit if used for longer.

On another note, my theory is that those that start off well and then run into problems are using it too often and the body cannot release the toxins quick enough. It's like having a sports massage every day! Or weight lifting everyday with giving the muscles time to build and heal. However, it does work for some!! (better lymph drainage system? More reliant body? Who knows)

PS - that unit is cheap on Amazon. I paid £192!!

[Rand627]

Interesting that your light therapy unit has twice the power for the exact same price.

Do you have the option of turning on only infrared, red or both at the same time?

[findingaway]

Interesting that your light therapy unit has twice the power for the exact same price.

Do you have the option of turning on only infrared, red or both at the same time?

I can only have either red on or infrared. The price of LEDman's unit was half the price I paid for my Omnilux.

[findingaway]

Survey results

Only just managed to get the survey working properly yesterday, so only two results in so far, but both very positive for RLT! And some detailed info about by how much, in what way, how their unit is used etc.

It should be fairly easy to duplicate for other types of treatments to gain an idea of their effectiveness for certain individuals.

I am trying to make sense of the madness that is 'rosacea' ('works for some, but not for all'). i.e. draw some correlations in statistics (people using it twice a week are gaining most benefit etc). I don't think the survey tool is powerful enough for that, but I will pull the results into a spreadsheet.

Currently looking to host the survey somewhere so all can keep tabs on the results!

PS - Today (Day 4) is going OK. Some redness as usual on my cheeks in the morning. But looked a bit different. Less diffuse maybe. To suttle to tell. Burning has subsided somewhat, but not gone completly. Eyes were playing up slightly today though - no worse then usual, but no better :/

Edit, just looked in the mirror and I am sure the redness is less Subtle, but less!

[Rand627]

Hm. I think I'd probably just end up going with the LEDman one. Bit cheaper and I like the guy who's selling them.

So what exactly is your plan when it comes to how long and how often you're going to be using the unit? Also, how are you mixing using the infrared and red?

[findingaway]

Hm. I think I'd probably just end up going with the LEDman one. Bit cheaper and I like the guy who's selling them.

So what exactly is your plan when it comes to how long and how often you're going to be using the unit? Also, how are you mixing using the infrared and red?

I don't blame you. The guy is really nice (you can tell him I said that! ) and I will be buying an all red for my mum soon from him (for her headaches), along with an all yellow for me.

Basically, it's all a bit of trial and error. Hopefully less of the error. Going to start with red, then break for a few days (min 48 hours) then switch to infrared. Few days off and then back to red.

Please let me know how you get on, i'd be very interested to hear!

[Rand627]

Sorry if you posted this earlier, but I looked and couldnt find it..

How many treatments have you gone through so far at day..3 I think? 2 treatments I would guess?

How close did you put the machine to your skin? I think I remember you stating that you did 15 minutes on each cheek and then your forehead. If not, how long did you use it for?

Sorry for all of the questions..this is all a bit overwhelming, haha.

Have a good one!