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SURVEY | Effectiveness of light therapy for rosacea and/or seborrheic dermatitis

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  • findingaway
    replied
    Originally posted by Rand627 View Post
    So how did you get your start with Rosacea? Was it a family history type or just randomly popped up? I'm an accutane induced flusher myself.
    Well it all started many months ago (tho seems like a life time ago). I came in from laying on the garden swing in the sun and my landlady said I looked a bit sun burned. I looked in the mirror, but only one cheek was red.

    That redness never actually went away, although it faded and would flare.

    I then started getting a gritty sensation in my eyes. The optician said I had MGD. Then that same day, I was 'mildly' embarrassed about something and blushed, to which the person responded 'your always blushing you'

    Still I didn't piece any of it together until I googled MGD to find out what it was. It said it could happen in conjunction with Seborrheic Dermatitis or...Rosacea. I googled rosacea and when I read about the frequent blushing and constant red, it all started to horribly make sense. I also was very afraid by the statement made by many sites that rosacea is worse in men...

    It's worth noting that just before all this came about I was having a really hard time at work and was trying to run a business in my spare time. I was exhausted, but just kept pushing myself.

    One day after a night out on the town, woke up with with extreme anxiety. I'm not an anxious person so this was a surprise. I stopped sleeping, not by choice mind, but because (looking back now) my adrenal glands were shot. It went on for months. I never thought id be the same again and ironically also read the line 'anxiety disorders usually don't go away and can get worse over time'. Melatonin and Rhodiola Rosea were my saviours! (although I don't take either anymore) Anyway - that's for another forum.

    Over time, my blushing kept getting worse. I joined a dance class with a group of friends and flushed really badly at even the slightest mishap in my steps. It was made more awful by the fact that they had huge mirrors in the studio we danced at. So I was constantly checking myself. I was getting very depressed and wondering what was going to come of my life...

    The phase 'been out in the sun a bit too long' was becoming quite commonplace in my life. There is a health food store where I live, so I consulted them for advice. They gave me milk thistle and sent me on my way with the line 'you won't see results for at least 3 months'

    I started learning all i could about Rosacea and MGD (Ocular Rosacea). I has just invested in an iPhone and found that I could be googling wherever and whenever. Seeing as I read it was not curable and progressive, but spurred on by the text I'd read in some articles about rosacea 'it can be reversed or at least better controlled if caught early' i went on a mission to find out how to fix it.

    I googled everything to do with the disease. This forum, needless to say, has been a massive help! I also booked an apt with the doc, who was useless and said I was too young to get rosacea. He gave me nizorol shampoo and told me it should clear up in 6 weeks or so. It didn't.

    I tried so many things to try and control it. My eyes were getting much worse and I developed lesions in my eyelid. The Rosacea had spread to the other cheek. However, it was still mild. By no means severe.

    I started cross referencing everything I read, collaborating it. Which is so difficult when it comes to rosacea as no one thing seems to work for all.* I found two sites that proved to be very useful, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed and http://www.hon.ch/ which showed actual scientific studies.

    At this point I was taking so many things from multivitamins to milk thistle. I was feeling really down and I kept (silly I know) pushing triggers - staying out in the sun etc to see if it really was rosacea or something else. I was hoping it was a mimic!

    I went back to the docs (different doc) who said it was rosacea and gave me Oracea. He said I was young so it was probably transient...I googled Oracea, but since I didn't have P&P I never took it. Damn docs! I reluctantly decided to drop everything that didn't have some scientific backing. I also added in zinc. See my signature to see what I use.

    By this point burning was a daily occurrence and I looked like I'd been punched in one eye as the lesions made it look puffy (a warm compressed previously didn't work, but I found a method with a cotton bud that helped). Zinc helped with the burning.

    As well as the scientific studies I wanted to see if I could figure out why some treatments work for some and not all. So I created a survey, the first of which is about RLT.

    Finally, finally. Some months later things are starting to improve. This is my best day yet. The redness is definitely less. The burning has gone. My eyes feel a little better.

    My mum gets flushed, but doesn't have rosacea. My dads skin is great. Sisters all all fine. Just me :/

    Sorry for the long post!!

    So what about you? Were you taking accutane for acne and you think it induced rosacea?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rand627
    replied
    I think so. Gonna see if my parents will subsizide it so I don't go poor, hah. I just bought a ridiculously expensive razor to see if it would help with irritation and the like. So far I hate it and I have a few more weeks of return policy. If I end up returning it I'll buy it no questions.

    I'll know within the next few weeks I suppose!

    So how did you get your start with Rosacea? Was it a family history type or just randomly popped up? I'm an accutane induced flusher myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • findingaway
    replied
    Originally posted by Rand627 View Post
    Sorry if you posted this earlier, but I looked and couldnt find it..

    How many treatments have you gone through so far at day..3 I think? 2 treatments I would guess?

    How close did you put the machine to your skin? I think I remember you stating that you did 15 minutes on each cheek and then your forehead. If not, how long did you use it for?

    Sorry for all of the questions..this is all a bit overwhelming, haha.

    Have a good one!
    Not a prob. Yes all very confusing. Just starting to get my head around some of it!

    2 treatments so far. Will do another tomorrow (Day 5) or Sat (Day 6). That one will be red.

    Only done 5 mins on each cheek (Inc eyes) and forehead (5 min each). Both about 1/2 inch away.

    So are you gonna start?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rand627
    replied
    Sorry if you posted this earlier, but I looked and couldnt find it..

    How many treatments have you gone through so far at day..3 I think? 2 treatments I would guess?

    How close did you put the machine to your skin? I think I remember you stating that you did 15 minutes on each cheek and then your forehead. If not, how long did you use it for?

    Sorry for all of the questions..this is all a bit overwhelming, haha.

    Have a good one!

    Leave a comment:


  • findingaway
    replied
    Originally posted by Rand627 View Post
    Hm. I think I'd probably just end up going with the LEDman one. Bit cheaper and I like the guy who's selling them.

    So what exactly is your plan when it comes to how long and how often you're going to be using the unit? Also, how are you mixing using the infrared and red?
    I don't blame you. The guy is really nice (you can tell him I said that! ) and I will be buying an all red for my mum soon from him (for her headaches), along with an all yellow for me.

    Basically, it's all a bit of trial and error. Hopefully less of the error. Going to start with red, then break for a few days (min 48 hours) then switch to infrared. Few days off and then back to red.

    Please let me know how you get on, i'd be very interested to hear!

    Leave a comment:


  • Rand627
    replied
    Hm. I think I'd probably just end up going with the LEDman one. Bit cheaper and I like the guy who's selling them.

    So what exactly is your plan when it comes to how long and how often you're going to be using the unit? Also, how are you mixing using the infrared and red?

    Leave a comment:


  • findingaway
    replied
    Survey results

    Only just managed to get the survey working properly yesterday, so only two results in so far, but both very positive for RLT! And some detailed info about by how much, in what way, how their unit is used etc.

    It should be fairly easy to duplicate for other types of treatments to gain an idea of their effectiveness for certain individuals.

    I am trying to make sense of the madness that is 'rosacea' ('works for some, but not for all'). i.e. draw some correlations in statistics (people using it twice a week are gaining most benefit etc). I don't think the survey tool is powerful enough for that, but I will pull the results into a spreadsheet.

    Currently looking to host the survey somewhere so all can keep tabs on the results!

    PS - Today (Day 4) is going OK. Some redness as usual on my cheeks in the morning. But looked a bit different. Less diffuse maybe. To suttle to tell. Burning has subsided somewhat, but not gone completly. Eyes were playing up slightly today though - no worse then usual, but no better :/

    Edit, just looked in the mirror and I am sure the redness is less Subtle, but less!
    Last edited by findingaway; 6 January 2011, 01:21 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • findingaway
    replied
    Originally posted by Rand627 View Post
    Interesting that your light therapy unit has twice the power for the exact same price.

    Do you have the option of turning on only infrared, red or both at the same time?
    I can only have either red on or infrared. The price of LEDman's unit was half the price I paid for my Omnilux.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rand627
    replied
    Interesting that your light therapy unit has twice the power for the exact same price.

    Do you have the option of turning on only infrared, red or both at the same time?

    Leave a comment:


  • findingaway
    replied
    Originally posted by Rand627 View Post
    Interesting. Do you mind posting a link to the exact one? I looked it up on google and found this..

    http://www.amazon.com/Omnilux-new-U-.../dp/B001NLIWM8

    But I'm not entirely sure that this is the one..maybe there's a different type for acne and such.

    And do you know what the differences are between your product and what the LEDman offers?

    http://www.theledman.com/handheld.html

    They are pretty much identical in price, I wonder if one has more power than the other. Would be interesting if I could get access to more technical specs.
    That's it. The one negative testimonial on Amazon did scare me, but I couldn't find any others like that, just all positive.

    About power, this is the deal.

    Power for these units is measured in mW/cm2. You can then eqaute that to Joules per minute. LEDman's and Elixa's units are about 25 mW/cm2, delivering 4 joules in about 4 minutes (never heard back from Britebox revive re their power output and not sure what the others are - you could prob google it, or email them) The Omnilux New-U is 55 mW/cm2 (for red, 70 mW/cm2 infrared). So double the power delivering 8-10 Joules in 4 minutes.

    Work out equations here: http://www.dymax.com/literature/conversion-charts.php

    But that isn't the only calculation that matters when working out power...

    I posted a question on Yahoo Answers asking about power output and intensity of LEDs. An engineer answered and part of their reply was this:

    In general, light intensity follows an inverse-square law. So, for instance, if you place the unit twice as far away, the intensity will be 1/4 as much. Place it 3 times farther, and the intensity will be 1/9. It's easy to see the reason for this. If you shine a light onto a flat surface, it illuminates a circle. If you double the distance, you'll double the diameter of the circle, which quadruples its area. So the same amount of light is shining on 4 times the area, which means each point on the larger circle receives 1/4 as much light. So you can also see that this doesn't apply to focused beams, or to lasers, because their light doesn't "spread out" the same way it does from a "normal" light bulb.


    Now if I understand things correctly, having the unit right to your face, say 2 inches, is going to deliver much more power then 6 inches away. In fact, if the unit delivers 10 joules in 4 minutes at 2 inches (for example), then at 4 inches it will be delivering 2 Joules in 4 minutes. Even less for a less powerful unit. The instructions will tell you exactly how to do it if you buy it.

    That would explain why many don't experience any benefit.

    I understand this unit is as powerful as the Omnilux Revive (not to be confused with the Britebox Revive!) but because you need it so close, only covers a small area. But then we get into cellular communication

    People clearly benefit from less powerful models and this I think comes down to a few factors.
    • Lots use it everyday.
    • The effects are cumulative.
    • A less powerful unit will deliver the same power as a higher powered unit if used for longer.


    On another note, my theory is that those that start off well and then run into problems are using it too often and the body cannot release the toxins quick enough. It's like having a sports massage every day! Or weight lifting everyday with giving the muscles time to build and heal. However, it does work for some!! (better lymph drainage system? More reliant body? Who knows)

    PS - that unit is cheap on Amazon. I paid £192!!
    Last edited by findingaway; 6 January 2011, 05:51 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rand627
    replied
    Interesting. Do you mind posting a link to the exact one? I looked it up on google and found this..

    http://www.amazon.com/Omnilux-new-U-.../dp/B001NLIWM8

    But I'm not entirely sure that this is the one..maybe there's a different type for acne and such.

    And do you know what the differences are between your product and what the LEDman offers?

    http://www.theledman.com/handheld.html

    They are pretty much identical in price, I wonder if one has more power than the other. Would be interesting if I could get access to more technical specs.

    Leave a comment:


  • findingaway
    replied
    Protocol for Omnilux Revive

    For your info: http://www.dermacaremedical.com/rosacea.php

    How many Omnilux revive ™ treatments do I need for my Rosacea?
    The Usual protocol for rosacea is 10 sessions. The treatments are performed twice a week during a 5-weeks period. There should be at least 48-hours rest time between treatments.

    How long each treatment lasts?
    20 minutes

    This is obviously way cheaper

    Interestingly on the Omnilux New-U box, it shows a series of pictures. The best results are after the treatment has been completed!

    Leave a comment:


  • findingaway
    replied
    Originally posted by Rand627 View Post
    What unit are you using for all of these treatments? And why did you choose to go infrared over red? I was under the impression that red helped the most for the burning and flushing. Or at least, it was a much more common way to go.
    Hi,

    I'm using the Omnilux New-U. Apparently the power is the same as the Omnilux revive - which is the professional model (huge) - but this only covers a small area.

    I went with the Infrared for two reasons. Firstly, although the Omnilux revive treatment protocol for rosacea is red only, I read that mixing infrared and red(http://www.consultingroom.com/News/D...re%92s%20LEDs?) between the Omnilux revive (all red) and Omnilux plus (infrared) increased the results (of wrinkle reduction and skin tone at least)

    Finally, I red a post by Twinkle Purple who has been using RLT for a while and she said that infrared bolstered the effect more then just the red alone.


    Originally posted by Twickle Purple View Post
    http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosa...10791-Infrared

    Hi moomy,

    A few of us mix red + near infrared. For me it enhances the positive benefits I get from using just red alone. I am very pale somedays. I check the mirror a lot on those days because it's fascinating -- my eye brows and hair look so much darker! I'm hoping that novelty wears off soon enough.

    Goggles are important with near-infrared. You may want to scan through some of the threads, you'll glean more info that way.

    I put this in another thread recently, it will help clarify the infrared misnnomer:

    --

    Red (or far red in the case of 660nm) falls in the (very) narrow visible light range. Infrared (which is not red at all) is invisible to the eye. Check out the 2 illustrations below. You will see the very large range within the infrared category.

    LED therapy systems that I have seen which are near infrared have wavelengths that fall into the lower end of the near infrared range.

    A little bit about infrared in general.

    Infrared light lies between the visible and microwave portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. Infrared light has a range of wavelengths, just like visible light has wavelengths that range from red light to violet. "Near infrared" light is closest in wavelength to visible light and "far infrared" is closer to the microwave region of the electromagnetic spectrum. The longer, far infrared wavelengths are about the size of a pin head and the shorter, near infrared ones are the size of cells, or are microscopic.

    Far infrared waves are thermal. In other words, we experience this type of infrared radiation every day in the form of heat! The heat that we feel from sunlight, a fire, a radiator or a warm sidewalk is infrared. The temperature-sensitive nerve endings in our skin can detect the difference between inside body temperature and outside skin temperature.

    Infrared light is even used to heat food sometimes - special lamps that emit thermal infrared waves are often used in fast food restaurants!

    Shorter, near infrared waves are not hot at all - in fact you cannot even feel them. These shorter wavelengths are the ones used by your TV's remote control.

    How can we "see" using the Infrared?

    Since the primary source of infrared radiation is heat or thermal radiation, any object which has a temperature radiates in the infrared. Even objects that we think of as being very cold, such as an ice cube, emit infrared. When an object is not quite hot enough to radiate visible light, it will emit most of its energy in the infrared. For example, hot charcoal may not give off light but it does emit infrared radiation which we feel as heat. The warmer the object, the more infrared radiation it emits.

    Humans, at normal body temperature, radiate most strongly in the infrared at a wavelength of about 10 microns. (A micron is the term commonly used in astronomy for a micrometer or one millionth of a meter.)
    Last edited by findingaway; 5 January 2011, 09:00 PM.

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  • Rand627
    replied
    What unit are you using for all of these treatments? And why did you choose to go infrared over red? I was under the impression that red helped the most for the burning and flushing. Or at least, it was a much more common way to go.

    Leave a comment:


  • findingaway
    replied
    PS - Had to rush down because dinner was on the table. Forgot to mention that my eyes have been much better. Now I am not sure if this is a placebo effect or what (since RLT takes a while to work), but my eyes feel less gritty and dry.

    The unit I have has two yellow LEDs to show that the Infrared is working and I make sure the yellow LED is on my eyelid as well as the Infrared. I do this because several people on the Dry Eye Forum reported benefits from yellow LEDs http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosa...p/t-11137.html

    When I did the Red Light Treatment on the first day, I gave my eyelids a few minutes of the yellow light and covered the infrared.

    My whole face has calmed down now and the burning has gone...thank goodness. Hopefully this is because of the Infrared. My face feels very calm actually.
    Last edited by findingaway; 5 January 2011, 08:12 PM.

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