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My third full face vBeam/Laser/PDL following Mirvaso skin damage

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  • Baboon
    replied
    Hi Darren, your rosacea journey sounds almost identical to mine. My last VBeam was about 4/5 years ago, which had some success with the sides of my face but the areas on each side of my nose have remained the same. Also tried IPL which didn't make a huge difference after multiple sessions. I tried Mirvaso a good few years back and experienced pretty bad rebound flushing as well, surprised that stuff is still available to buy considering the damage it can cause. I was thinking about trying Vbeam again but I'm on two minds, creams & lotions don't do much but I'm not sure how much difference the laser will make either. Also the downtime is really awkward with work etc if there is bruising. You mentioned you're using an LED, is that like a face mask thing? Have you noticed much improvement?

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  • darren1
    replied
    After 2 useless KTP sessions (Cutera Excel V) I'm now seeing someone at a laser training academy which is also a doctor-led clinic.

    The person I saw is knowledgable and is proposing a test patch at sub-purpuric settings to see how I get on. The plain is to treat my face on lower settings and try to clear up the redness on my face which could be trapped blood. She actually knows the derm who did my previous Vbeam but did not elaborate. She says she thinks the treatment was quite successful. Indeed, parts of it really did heal up fine but it's the heavy bruising areas that have left me looking worse.

    It's a shame my third Vbeam produced the opposite effects to what I wanted. I am still trying to understand exactly what caused there to be more redness in my face. My main problem was flushing. And now my baseline is worse but only in the areas I had treated - these same areas flush easily in cold and artificial heat, and it looks odd when it does. On the bright side, it's nothing like the Mirvaso flushes I was having in 2017. The flushing now is limited to smaller areas of my face, but definitely within the Vbeam treatment areas.

    I've been using yellow LED (583nm) daily for about 2 months and it seems that when I flush, I can get the face to return to normal (well, as normal as can be) fairly quickly. After splashing cold water on my face and moisturising, it takes about 10 minutes for the face to cool down.

    I'm due for a test patch in late April, so in the meantime, I'll keep up my skincare routine and maintain the daily LED sessions. Who knows, it could still improve a little before April, and if it does not, at least the test patch awaits me.

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  • jrlhamcat2
    replied
    Originally posted by darren1 View Post
    This is why I'm afraid of the 1064nm "Genesis" mode on the Cutera Excel V. I'm reading an instruction manual:

    https://mycutera.com/getattachment/3...uide.aspx.aspx

    They very casually recommend 1064nm for diffuse redness. The idea of that worries me. I thought 595nm was pretty deep, but 1064nm could surely do some damage.
    I don't know about the depth, but Candela's publications say the 595nm wavelength is better for targeting blood vessels as more of the energy is absorbed by hemoglobin. With other wavelengths and with broad-spectrum light like IPL, more energy is delivered to surrounding tissues. I would avoid 1064nm for rosacea for that reason alone.

    Leave a comment:


  • RedMage
    replied
    There is Endoscopic Thoracic Sympathectomy (Micro ETS)
    https://www.hyperhidrosis-usa.com/ets.html#gsc.tab=0
    At some point I was thinking about the previus more invasive method normal ETS, but it was to invasive and mostly irreversible.
    In addition, the side effects themselves can make life terribly difficult. Excessive sweating etc. And also they may not solve the problem with flushing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sineadrosy
    replied
    Originally posted by RedMage View Post
    I have not seen it yet. I wonder on what principle it would/coudl work. In the article there is only information that the plasma is separated from the blood and it is the plasma that the doctor injects under the skin where Rosacea is. And that's it. I will read more about it, but so far I am rather sceptical. Maybe someone heard smth more.
    Yeah, one person posted here saying they experienced 50% reduction in symtoms and on the tapatalk forum for laser damage some people said it helped with the redness and flushing...

    Leave a comment:


  • RedMage
    replied
    I have not seen it yet. I wonder on what principle it would/coudl work. In the article there is only information that the plasma is separated from the blood and it is the plasma that the doctor injects under the skin where Rosacea is. And that's it. I will read more about it, but so far I am rather sceptical. Maybe someone heard smth more.

    Leave a comment:


  • Momof
    replied
    Originally posted by Sineadrosy View Post
    Have you ever head of PRP? I think I'm going to try it as I never want to see a laser again

    https://talontedlex.co.uk/2016/05/30...-rosceareview/
    Interesting idea. I will definitely consider it

    Leave a comment:


  • Sineadrosy
    replied
    Originally posted by darren1 View Post
    It's continuing to improve with my religious use of skin care, as well as LED light (yellow).

    Post Inflammatory Eryethma is what I'm dealing with. The same kind of redness left behind after acne spots, only this is all over the face where I was treated with the Vbeam. PIE can take a LONG time to fade. 12 - 24 months is the kind of timeframe we're talking, but I hope I am accelerating that with my routine.

    I don't think I'll be having any more Vbeam. At 595nm, this wavelength penetrates pretty deeply (all the way down to the dermis) to collapse dialted blood vessels and remove hemoglobin.

    If I have any more vascular laser, it will be the KTP laser that comes with the Cutera Excel V machine. A clinic does this locally, and I had a consultation last year where I quizzed them at length and was even allowed to use the touch screen on the machine to explore all the menu options.

    KTP laser is 532nm, so shallower penetration than the PDL (Vbeam). There's less downtime with the Excel machine as it is much newer than the Vbeam I had treatment on (it was the Vbeam Perfecta, I believe), and has a continuous mode as well as a pulsed mode.

    I've enquired about making arrangements to have a test patch and they agreed. Whenever it suits me I'll do this. Sounds like not many people ask about a test patch with that particular clinic. I'm being extra cautious.
    Have you ever head of PRP? I think I'm going to try it as I never want to see a laser again

    https://talontedlex.co.uk/2016/05/30...-rosceareview/

    Leave a comment:


  • RedMage
    replied
    Originally posted by przemek View Post
    I don't know the settings and parameters. I can only write to you that I was supposed to have 3 treatments.
    The first one, as I wrote, had "light settings" and nothing really happened after it. During the second treatment, after 3 weeks, the person who was doing increased the parameters, I realized that it was much more painful, it was extremely painful. She said later that she increased the parameters, but I don't know what it was like. The clinic where I was working looks professional and has a medical entity in its name, but it was a huge failure.
    What I noticed, which seems to be a mistake, is that I did not receive any cooling after the procedure, neither for the first time nor for the second time, and it probably was not normal, Especially the second time I should get cooling because it was an extremely hard and painful procedure. After this second treatment, the skin did not recover. It has improved a little but I would like to turn back the time not to go to this procedure. If I were you, I would give up with lasers - LASERS DIDN'T HEAL ANYONE.
    For people who have succeeded, only what they can do is only lighten the skin a little for a short time, but it takes a short time, I think that 1-2 months, the more you will do these treatments, the more your skin will become sensitive. This is a vicious circle and lasers are a trap, maybe if someone has thick skin, maybe there is a lower risk of harm. But someone with a delicate and thin skin has to be very careful - this is a very high risk. Only as I wrote - LASERS DIDN'T CURE ANYONE !! Why risk it when they haven't cured anyone anyway, sometimes some people only have lighter skin, but only for a short time.
    I can concur. Laser is not the root cause cure. It's not even the symptom cure. It's just an expensive way to make a short lived makeup. To feed on hope.

    Leave a comment:


  • przemek
    replied
    people who have thick skin are in a better situation and are probably less risky, i.e. maybe someone who has thick skin would have the same settings done as me, maybe they would not have such a problem. But as people we are very different and the person who is doing it sees you for the first time and often uses some template settings that may not be good for everyone. Really many people have damaged skin from lasers and I don't know anyone they healed. I know that the ads are beautifully shown but remember that this is only marketing, but your mind associates these beautiful ads with people without a red face with reality and this is only false advertising and marketing. They want to earn money and I think that companies that make lasers know about this problem, but it's a huge business for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • przemek
    replied
    My thoughts are like this. If you have to do them, do 1-2 treatments a year (I think that from 3 treatments more with short time intervals, the skin starts to become sensitive), only to light settings (I can't tell you what they are light, but the person who will do the treatment should know) Between the 1st and the second treatment, 5 weeks or more break. And as much as you improve, accept that this is the only possible success, do not combine any more because some think that there was a small improvement for light settings, then for larger settings it will be better and this can be a mistake that will destroy your life.

    And remember what you risk, your skin can become sensitive. I also read reviews of people - who were on one treatment and were delighted, the second one was less but it was ok, And the third treatment, when the settings were increased, destroyed everything and they had a very big problem.
    Lasers are very risky, so keep that in mind.

    I also don't know of any case they would really heal.

    If mirvaso has hurt you a lot, your skin is probably thin too, so be careful.

    Leave a comment:


  • darren1
    replied
    This is why I'm afraid of the 1064nm "Genesis" mode on the Cutera Excel V. I'm reading an instruction manual:

    https://mycutera.com/getattachment/3...uide.aspx.aspx

    They very casually recommend 1064nm for diffuse redness. The idea of that worries me. I thought 595nm was pretty deep, but 1064nm could surely do some damage.

    Leave a comment:


  • przemek
    replied
    the forehead and the rest of the body is something else there is no such innervation as the face (nose and cheeks are very innervated parts of the body)
    I think lasers make a problem when they get too deep into very innervated parts. And the face has a lot of nerve endings. That's why I probably feel discomfort all the time as if inside the skin, maybe the problem is that the deep laser is damaging something inside because my skin on the outside does not look so bad. But it feels like a subcutaneous discomfort, a burning pain, sometimes a lack of feeling, it feels as if the part where the treatment was performed was different from the rest of the body, and it became very sensitive.

    Leave a comment:


  • darren1
    replied
    Originally posted by przemek View Post
    I don't know the settings and parameters. I can only write to you that I was supposed to have 3 treatments.
    The first one, as I wrote, had "light settings" and nothing really happened after it. During the second treatment, after 3 weeks, the person who was doing increased the parameters, I realized that it was much more painful, it was extremely painful. She said later that she increased the parameters, but I don't know what it was like. The clinic where I was working looks professional and has a medical entity in its name, but it was a huge failure.
    What I noticed, which seems to be a mistake, is that I did not receive any cooling after the procedure, neither for the first time nor for the second time, and it probably was not normal, Especially the second time I should get cooling because it was an extremely hard and painful procedure. After this second treatment, the skin did not recover. It has improved a little but I would like to turn back the time not to go to this procedure. If I were you, I would give up with lasers - LASERS DIDN'T HEAL ANYONE.
    For people who have succeeded, only what they can do is only lighten the skin a little for a short time, but it takes a short time, I think that 1-2 months, the more you will do these treatments, the more your skin will become sensitive. This is a vicious circle and lasers are a trap, maybe if someone has thick skin, maybe there is a lower risk of harm. But someone with a delicate and thin skin has to be very careful - this is a very high risk. Only as I wrote - LASERS DIDN'T CURE ANYONE !! Why risk it when they haven't cured anyone anyway, sometimes some people only have lighter skin, but only for a short time.
    I'll keep this in mind. I am using Azelaic Acid which actually thins the skin. I was using AA for months and right up to the day before my last Vbeam. Maybe that's why I've taken so long to heal.

    I'll be having a small test patch to begin with when I go to the Cutera Excel V clinic. I will be careful. I think you are right about it becoming a vicious cycle. At the very least, plenty of time needs to be allowed between treatments to let the skin recover. Some people are eager to jump right in whereas I want to see if my skin can get better on its own first.

    A few minutes ago I was examining my forehead. I was standing under a light bulb with a small mirror looking at the improvements IPL made to my skin. I had this particular treatment (only one time for IPL) in 2017. It was quite an aggressive treatment, and no testing was done beforehand. There are speckles and patches of much lighter skin on my reddish forehead. An improvement for sure, but I'm afraid of more IPL in case I push my luck and things go badly wrong.

    The Cutera Excel V+ seems to be the successor to the Excel V. I'll be doing some more research on this.

    https://cutera.com/excelVplus
    https://cutera.com/excelV

    https://player.vimeo.com/video/103767529
    Last edited by darren1; 2 September 2020, 07:33 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • przemek
    replied
    I don't know the settings and parameters. I can only write to you that I was supposed to have 3 treatments.
    The first one, as I wrote, had "light settings" and nothing really happened after it. During the second treatment, after 3 weeks, the person who was doing increased the parameters, I realized that it was much more painful, it was extremely painful. She said later that she increased the parameters, but I don't know what it was like. The clinic where I was working looks professional and has a medical entity in its name, but it was a huge failure.
    What I noticed, which seems to be a mistake, is that I did not receive any cooling after the procedure, neither for the first time nor for the second time, and it probably was not normal, Especially the second time I should get cooling because it was an extremely hard and painful procedure. After this second treatment, the skin did not recover. It has improved a little but I would like to turn back the time not to go to this procedure. If I were you, I would give up with lasers - LASERS DIDN'T HEAL ANYONE.
    For people who have succeeded, only what they can do is only lighten the skin a little for a short time, but it takes a short time, I think that 1-2 months, the more you will do these treatments, the more your skin will become sensitive. This is a vicious circle and lasers are a trap, maybe if someone has thick skin, maybe there is a lower risk of harm. But someone with a delicate and thin skin has to be very careful - this is a very high risk. Only as I wrote - LASERS DIDN'T CURE ANYONE !! Why risk it when they haven't cured anyone anyway, sometimes some people only have lighter skin, but only for a short time.

    Leave a comment:

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