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  • #16

    The milk discussed was commercial pasteurized cows milk. The presenter made a point of emphasizing that some types of 'organic' milk have been shown to have higher levels of hormonally active components than does standard milk. In addition, he said that soy milk, at least from the standpoint of hormones, was safer that cows milk. He said 'milk is for babies, specifically baby cows. I have photo's of many of his slides, and if it is possible/permitted I would be willing to post them but I need instructions.

    Hope this helps,


    • #17
      Whilst I am more than happy to have to post up the slides I am afraid that I can be of no help in offering advice as to how to do it. I have tried and failed to upload a pdf.

      The only suggestion I can make is to upload them to photobucket?? or alternatively you could contact Warren the forum's owner and ask for his advice:


      • #18

        [QUOTE=Mistica;198125]Sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread, but, regarding your use of Klaron, do you feel it is making you light sensitive?

        I have a new derm now, who wants me to try 10% Sulfacetamide/sulphur 3%. It is to be applied for 15 minutes, twice daily and then promptly rinsed off.
        I have not even bothered to fill the script as my pharmacists have told me it is likely to make me light sensitive, being a photosensitizing drug.
        I know the oral form certainly is and I did worry about the topical when the derm prescribed it.

        Another thing, I can't even tolerate sulphur alone and after two weeks I am still test patching small areas, with poor success. I find it irritating.

        My nose, is the most reactive, meaning it is always red and swells easily.

        You say the klaron is helping your nose. Is this in combination with red light therapy? Or are you still covering your nose as I recall you were doing at one stage?

        Hi Mistica
        I tried posting to you about this earlier in the week, but after typing several paragraphs the website told me I wasn't logged in and I lost everything. Anyway, I am still covering my nose when doing red light therapy. As far as the Klaron goes, it's hard for me to say whether or not it is making me more photosensitve because I am taking low dose accutane as well. Sorry I can't be more help, but I have so many things going on at once (I also take St. John's wort, which some people say is photosensitizing) that I'm not sure what is causing what. I don't know if Klaron will help you if sulfur is irritating...I have used sulfur for years and years and it always helped me.
        Good luck to you,
        "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
        Ralph Waldo Emerson


        • #19

          Originally posted by pennya View Post
          Thanks for the clarification...

          I'm a vegetarian (rarely eating dairy in addition to that) so my 'fat' intake is 0 to minimal by your definition. Yet, I still have rosacea...redness and flushing mainly. I've been a vegetarian for 10 years now I think. I do admit that I do indulge in some junk food containing some bad fats (trans fats, saturated fats,etc) once in a while, but I don't think that's really the reason that my rosacea continues to stay with me.

          Any thoughts Drums?

          That’s fair comment Penny although I am stunned by the fact you eat minimalist fats but also quite challenging to my rosacea theory. Although it still does not change my focus upon what are to me the critical controls for dealing with rosacea and what I deem to be what qualifies my own diagnosis of rosacea?
          So from this standpoint I will approach your problem in just the same way as a person who does eat fats. The reason is that you are exhibiting the same symptoms as a fat eating person
          So in my mind whatever you are eating or drinking is causing the same biological reaction in you as any other person with rosacea
          Now when I eat certain foods or drink I notice some kind of sensation it can be a pricking or very slight stinging it can be even variable to a slight itchy feeling
          The main sites where I experience these sensations can also vary from my ears; chest face and nose, but anywhere else cannot be ignored. It is noticeable that certain foods do produce a definite sensation in the same place depending upon what I eat or drink.
          For example if I eat some butter or cheese or ground coffee within seconds my nose will start to prick and after the pricking a sharp sting which I call a “pricksting” this always causes me to have a red spot appear at the site area of the “pricksting within say forty eight hours which turn yellow and follows it course to healing. If I eat
          Other foods, which can cause an itching very light pricking behind, my ears I experience no pricksting damage i.e. spots. Another thing I have noticed is if I eat foods, which cause flatulence directly upon eating it, leads to some skin reaction later on.

          Now although ROBS POST may seem quite complicated and above our heads but basically he is saying the same thing that certain foods can calculate into antagonists and probably more so in our case. I have been working upon similar lines although not yet quite finished I have pin pointed foods which directly have a bearing upon my rosacea. I have been focusing upon lipid signalling as a subject to explain why when I eat fats I experience this “pricksting”. My conclusion so far is that the pricksting is due to a failure in the signalling which could be due to a number of reasons on my list.
          When a person eats fats lipid signalling is initiated which should resulting in a secretion known as perspiration. If perspiration is failed the secretion is trapped
          somewhere beneath the skin and causes inflammation or a fatty kind of deposit the latter I believe is the cause of rhinophyma as the fat deposits build up they cause pressure and lead to the typical rhinophyma appearance.


          • #20
            Sorry Drums but I believe you are way off on the rhinophyma idea.

            As for the prickling sensation then you may like to look at this link which shows the possible reasons that foods may cause a worsening of rosacea symptoms:


            but I digress...


            • #21
              Images from Rome on Milk/inlflammation/etc..

              Okay, here are a large number of slides from the Rome meeting we attended. I must apologize in advance for a number of faults. 1) There are a lot of pictures in no particular order - they came off of the cell phone that way and I have not had time to organize them. 2) There are a lot of pictures, I hope that does not cause any problems with this site. If someone could suggest a better way to post them, I'm all ears and will do in future uploads. 3) My sloppy photographs - wiggle wiggle. If anyone has questions, please send them my way.

              I have put about 10 images in this folder. I apologize for any problems that may come of my ignorance in doing this. If this is okay, I will add more images over time.



              • #22

                Sorry, I guess I did it wrong. Here are some shots.[IMG][/IMG]


                • #23
                  rhinophyma idea.

                  Originally posted by phlika29 View Post
                  Sorry Drums but I believe you are way off on the rhinophyma idea.

                  As for the prickling sensation then you may like to look at this link which shows the possible reasons that foods may cause a worsening of rosacea symptoms:


                  but I digress...
                  Phlika 29,

                  I am not right sure what point you are trying to make from the information contained in the link. If you are suggesting that it is partly the reactions from histamines well yes for most part the foods which are high in histamines in my theory mode do actually worsen rosacea. It is noticeable however that the majority of these foods are fatty foods and acidic foods and possibly trigger a skin reaction
                  I fully accept that by eating these types foods that they may well contribute to the pricking sensation in the case of a person suffering from rosacea.
                  I may not have explained it well enough so what I trying to say is that in a normal person not suffering from rosacea such people may or may not experience particularly the pricking but instead experience at least slight perspiration instead.
                  Whereas in a person with rosacea on eating high histamine foods would only experience the pricking but not perspire and for me this is a noticeable difference. That we fail to excrete or perspire depending upon how you look upon it and because of this the constantly failed excretion eventually leads to a pressure build up under the skin.

                  I would welcome your explanation why you consider I am way off on the rhinophyma idea.



                  • #24

                    HUGE photos!! I am glad I am not the only one to have made this unfortunate error

                    I have a few questions for you. I will apologise in advance if you have already spoken about them elsewhere.

                    Firstly, what is your profession? Did you attend some kind of medical conference in Rome? Alternative therapy?

                    Barring the usual triggers, an over load of simple sugars and dairy are enemies for me.
                    I eat little fat, yet I have terrible rosacea. I don't eat bread/wheat products.
                    My SHBG is unusually high, not reduced, as your chart states it should be in order to set the scene.

                    I am curious as to your thoughts on the above.

                    Additionally, what are your rosacea symptoms?

                    Previous Numerous IPL.
                    Supplements: High dose Niacinamide, Vit K2, low dose Vit A. Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Mod- dose B's. Low dose zinc. Testing Quercetin.

                    Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA 2%, ethyl ascorbate 2%.

                    Treating for gut dysbiosis.(This is helping).
                    Previous GAPS diet. Have now introduced lots of fibre.
                    Fermented Foods. Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.
                    Oral Colostrum. Helps reduce food reactions.


                    • #25
                      I think you meant me

                      Hi Mystica,

                      I think you confused Drums with me, if not then maybe I am confused. The big photos are mine. I assume that there is a way to shrink them using Photobucket, I just have not used it enough.

                      I am a Ph.D. scientist, and my wife (she is too) and I were at the 2nd International Conference on Sebaceous Gland, Acne, Rosacea and Related Disorders, Basic and Clinical Research, Clinical Entities and Treatment. You can find the abstracts of all of the presentations at the meeting at, but unfortunately no pictures. This meeting was our first dermatology meeting, we have both historically done cancer drug research. We became interested in dermatology because we are developing our own antiinflammatory agent. We started developing this because I have suffered for years from seb derm, and like all mad scientists, I experimented on myself.

                      I have been posting the photos where I think that they are appropriate around the site, both to answer questions and to provide supplementary information to the threads.

                      The dietary information seems to be an area where there is much searching for answers, and a lot of the conclusions and extant research are summarized nicely in some of the slides. Thus, I though they would be of interest to the membership here. One of the additional points of the meeting was that not all fats are bad for you, in fact there are essential fatty acids that you must have because your body can not make them.

                      In the case of SHBG, the slide only presents the typical situation. Your levels are reflective of your individual physiology, and since acne/rosacea/seb derm seems to be more of a spectrum of disorders, I tend to think of them as I do of cancer. Cancer (uncontrolled cell growth) is a symptom that can arise from many defects of cellular metabolism and regulation. There is no single, or even small number of causes, but all posses the symptom of disorganized growth. Likewise, I think that the skin disorder spectrum arises from a multitude of different interacting causes, with the end result of skin inflammation and sequelea including redness, vasodilation, inflammation, scaling and flaking, bacterial overgrowth resulting in pustules etc. The causes are many, but one common feature of all is that the immune system plays a part. I don't think that the immune system is broken, but rather that the microbes use the immune system against the body to create an environment that they like to live in. As I mentioned above, we are doing experiments to probe the inflammatory side of these conditions and have made some interesting findings. If the moderators would permit it, I would be willing to put the poster that we presented in Rome here to let everyone have a look, but since I am new, I am not sure of the best person to ask.

                      I know this is a long post, but I do tend to rattle on.

                      Last edited by robs; 8 November 2008, 01:26 AM. Reason: sp


                      • #26


                        • #27

                          Hi Robs,

                          Yes, I see I did swap names. Not sure what happened there, but I do apologise

                          Many of us can't tolerate supplementing with Flaxseed oil or Fish oil, yet, as you point out, essential fatty acids are necessary for our well being.
                          In balance, they supposedly have an anti inflammatory effect, yet in some rosaceans, they exacerbate symptoms.
                          I used to take a tablespoon quite happily for years. I took a break, which translated probably means, I forgot to buy more and as I was doing ok at the time, didn't bother with another purchase.
                          Then, when my condition deteriorated severely due to the use of retinoids ( I sent you a PM concerning this), I started taking flaxseed oil again, hoping for an anti inflammatory effect. I was soon to be disappointed though as all it seemed to do was make me flush even more.

                          Many of us have tried different diets, some of which are radical, but at the end of the day, there hasn't been anything conclusive to draw from this. The subject of diet and intestinal problems is never far from thought though. Such as H.Pylori bugs, and an over growth of gut bacteria, causing inflammation.
                          Any thoughts on this?
                          The suggestion that rosacea is a result of many causes seems to make sense when you consider that various treatments can produce such varying effects on different people.
                          The sad end result is, they don't usually work.

                          Has the work of Dr Gallo ( antimicrobial peptides/cathelicidins) been of any use to you in your current research?
                          Any success with your personal experiments?
                          I shall look forward to hearing updates, if you are allowed to give them
                          Previous Numerous IPL.
                          Supplements: High dose Niacinamide, Vit K2, low dose Vit A. Moderate Dose Vit C, Iodine, Taurine, Magnesium. Mod- dose B's. Low dose zinc. Testing Quercetin.

                          Skin Care: No Cleanser, ZZ cream mixed with Niacinamide gel 4% and LMW HA 2%, ethyl ascorbate 2%.

                          Treating for gut dysbiosis.(This is helping).
                          Previous GAPS diet. Have now introduced lots of fibre.
                          Fermented Foods. Intermittent fasting -16-18 hours.
                          Oral Colostrum. Helps reduce food reactions.


                          • #28
                            Hmmn. I see that Robs has been banned.

                            Anyway, Drums, I am familiar with the sensation of which you speak and have felt it under two different sets of circumstances.

                            First, I am allergic to alcohol. Runs in the family. My mother breaks out in welts, my brother turns red after a mouthful and I feel prickly all over my face and forehead and usually feel nauseous as well. Whenever I drink more than a few sips of alchohol, which as you can imagine almost never happens, I experience the kind of prickling you speak of.

                            I also experience the same kind of prickling, only with more of an itching, stinging component, when I'm having a flareup of perioral dermatitis and I've accidentally put something on my face that is an irritant.

                            This suggests to me that your issue is allergy related. It seems you are sensitive to a number of different foods and that your restricted diet eliminates them - although whether this has to do with their fat content or not I don't know. Whatever it is, as long as it works then keep doing it, I say. Nothing wrong with a low fat diet.


                            • #29
                              Does anyone know why Robs was banned? I thought his posts were quite interesting...


                              • #30
                                Is rhinophyma common with seb. dermatitis? Or is it more a rosacea induced problem?