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  • Capture531
    replied
    Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
    You will be lucky to get rid of every single demodex mite. But using a tea tree oil shampoo, maybe 2-3 times a week will reduce the scalp population significantly in my experience.
    Gotcha! Is there a good one you would suggest?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubydo1
    replied
    Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
    You will be lucky to get rid of every single demodex mite. But using a tea tree oil shampoo, maybe 2-3 times a week will reduce the scalp population significantly in my experience.
    Yeah I use a tea tree shampoo have done for months

    Leave a comment:


  • antwantsclear
    replied
    Originally posted by Capture531 View Post
    So would you use a tea tree shampoo? Im kind of curious how it would even get down in the follicle to reach them though? Its almost like you would need a leave on treatment.
    You will be lucky to get rid of every single demodex mite. But using a tea tree oil shampoo, maybe 2-3 times a week will reduce the scalp population significantly in my experience.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubydo1
    replied
    Originally posted by Capture531 View Post
    So I actually did a little research that some might be interested in as far as kill times of demodex. The mechanism by which Ivermectin actually kills mites is that it interferes with their GABA neurotransmitter, which essentially paralyzes them. This in turn kills them. You can read about that here:

    http://www.ahdbonline.com/payer-pers...dr-zoe-draelos

    Like Brady mentioned there aren't really any clinical papers with data showing dead mites in relation to Ivermectin in vitro. I have found a couple studies that test 10% povidone-iodine, 75% alcohol, 50% baby shampoo, and 4% pilocarpine and varying degrees of tea tree oil. Demodex folliculorum survived for more than 150 minutes in 10% povidone-iodine, 75% alcohol, 50% baby shampoo, and 4% pilocarpine. However, the survival time was significantly shortened to within 15 minutes in 100% alcohol, 100% TTO, 100% caraway oil, or 100% dill weed oil. TTO's in vitro killing effect was dose dependent. You can read about that here:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16234455

    Terpinen-4-ol is the main component of tea tree oil that affects demodex and has been shown to be effective at 1% compared to the higher doses of tea tree oil needed (which can cause irritation). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3860352/ This component can be found in commercial Cliradex products. There is also a study comparing Cliradex to Avenova HOCL solution. T40 took 40 minutes. HOCL was no more effective than mineral oil and 79% of mites were alive after 90 minutes.

    I recently prepared a slide with demodex mites that I obtained from myself (I seem to have a lot!) and tested 1% Ivermectin on them. I have a tube of Soolantra. Demodex can't live for very long off of their host but in the above studies they have survived for up to at least 150 minutes on a slide. I experimented with 2 mites. I applied the Soolantra directly to the first sample under the microscope and let the other demodex alone to just go about its merry way. Kill time in demodex is basically defined as the cessation of movement of the body, legs, and mouth. All of this is very visible if I use 250X magnification. The first demodex was unable to remove itself from the Ivermectin and died in about 25-30 minutes. The second demodex mite actually made its way over to the Ivermectin, became trapped and died in about 30 minutes. I have tested other solutions such as Briotech HOCL spray and alcohol. The mites continued to move freely and didn't die. There is some speculation that Ivermectin works because it is anti-inflammatory. My dermatologist mentioned that very little product from topicals can penetrate the hair follicle to where the mites actually reside. However, if applied at night my only assumption is that it could have an effect when they emerge from follicles to reproduce lol which is just lovely.

    Anyway...that's my science project for today
    I will update this thread with any other solutions that I decide to try.
    Nice project well done ���� so in theory applying soolantra in the day is a waste of time.
    I’m on week 11 and have broken out a bit this week . I only apply it at night but all over .
    Surely these buggers should dead by now. ��
    Last edited by Rubydo1; 15 November 2019, 05:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capture531
    replied
    Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    Ivermectin is 'used to treat many types of parasite infestations' and the logical conclusion is it kills demodex mites. However, if you try to find any clinical papers substantiating this with some real data showing dead mites you will be hard pressed to find it. But is seems logical that these mites are killed with ivermectin. What antwantsclear is pointing out is that the mites move at 'at a speed of 8-16 mm/h' which you can learn about here.
    So I actually did a little research that some might be interested in as far as kill times of demodex. The mechanism by which Ivermectin actually kills mites is that it interferes with their GABA neurotransmitter, which essentially paralyzes them. This in turn kills them. You can read about that here:

    http://www.ahdbonline.com/payer-pers...dr-zoe-draelos

    Like Brady mentioned there aren't really any clinical papers with data showing dead mites in relation to Ivermectin in vitro. I have found a couple studies that test 10% povidone-iodine, 75% alcohol, 50% baby shampoo, and 4% pilocarpine and varying degrees of tea tree oil. Demodex folliculorum survived for more than 150 minutes in 10% povidone-iodine, 75% alcohol, 50% baby shampoo, and 4% pilocarpine. However, the survival time was significantly shortened to within 15 minutes in 100% alcohol, 100% TTO, 100% caraway oil, or 100% dill weed oil. TTO's in vitro killing effect was dose dependent. You can read about that here:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16234455

    Terpinen-4-ol is the main component of tea tree oil that affects demodex and has been shown to be effective at 1% compared to the higher doses of tea tree oil needed (which can cause irritation). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3860352/ This component can be found in commercial Cliradex products. There is also a study comparing Cliradex to Avenova HOCL solution. T40 took 40 minutes. HOCL was no more effective than mineral oil and 79% of mites were alive after 90 minutes.

    I recently prepared a slide with demodex mites that I obtained from myself (I seem to have a lot!) and tested 1% Ivermectin on them. I have a tube of Soolantra. Demodex can't live for very long off of their host but in the above studies they have survived for up to at least 150 minutes on a slide. I experimented with 2 mites. I applied the Soolantra directly to the first sample under the microscope and let the other demodex alone to just go about its merry way. Kill time in demodex is basically defined as the cessation of movement of the body, legs, and mouth. All of this is very visible if I use 250X magnification. The first demodex was unable to remove itself from the Ivermectin and died in about 25-30 minutes. The second demodex mite actually made its way over to the Ivermectin, became trapped and died in about 30 minutes. I have tested other solutions such as Briotech HOCL spray and alcohol. The mites continued to move freely and didn't die. There is some speculation that Ivermectin works because it is anti-inflammatory. My dermatologist mentioned that very little product from topicals can penetrate the hair follicle to where the mites actually reside. However, if applied at night my only assumption is that it could have an effect when they emerge from follicles to reproduce lol which is just lovely.

    Anyway...that's my science project for today
    I will update this thread with any other solutions that I decide to try.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capture531
    replied
    Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
    Ivermectin does clear up mites on your face (although there are concerns you can become immune over time to ivermectin and Soolantra only has a low dose of it). The greater and more immediate concern is that if you kill mites on your face but not on your scalp, the scalp mites just migrate on to your face - think how close your ears and nose are to your hair! So you better treat your hair if you want to have any impact on the mites...
    So would you use a tea tree shampoo? Im kind of curious how it would even get down in the follicle to reach them though? Its almost like you would need a leave on treatment.

    Leave a comment:


  • antwantsclear
    replied
    Ivermectin does clear up mites on your face (although there are concerns you can become immune over time to ivermectin and Soolantra only has a low dose of it). The greater and more immediate concern is that if you kill mites on your face but not on your scalp, the scalp mites just migrate on to your face - think how close your ears and nose are to your hair! So you better treat your hair if you want to have any impact on the mites...

    Leave a comment:


  • Capture531
    replied
    Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    There are still some doctors who are not keeping up with demodectic rosacea which has a history of controversy behind it (scroll down to the subheading 'The History of the Demodex Controversy' in this article). The evidence is now overwhelming that demodectic rosacea is a rosacea variant. The NRS, the AARS, the ARSC, and the ADD do not recognize demodectic rosacea as a rosacea variant [what is a variant?], therefore, only the RRDi recognizes it. Not all rosacea is demodectic, but a significant number of rosacea sufferers respond to treatment for demodex mites.
    I actually came across a cheaper form of soolantra. Amex Pharmacy is a compounding pharmacy based out of Florida that formulates unique perscriptions with an rx from your doctor. They formulate a 15% azelaic acid, 1% metronidazole, and 1% Soolantra together in one 30g tube for 59 dollars. They ship to 44 states. They are also accredited and pharmacists compound the medication. This seems like a good approach to tackle die off symptoms from the soolantra. And a cheaper option. I called and spoke to the pharmacist and he said you just need an Rx from the derm.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brady Barrows
    replied
    Originally posted by Capture531 View Post
    Are you suggesting that ivermectin does not kill the mites at all? That they simply dont like it and migrate to other areas?
    Ivermectin is 'used to treat many types of parasite infestations' and the logical conclusion is it kills demodex mites. However, if you try to find any clinical papers substantiating this with some real data showing dead mites you will be hard pressed to find it. But is seems logical that these mites are killed with ivermectin. What antwantsclear is pointing out is that the mites move at 'at a speed of 8-16 mm/h' which you can learn about here.

    Leave a comment:


  • opare
    replied
    even if they would die or move onto other parts of the face that treated area should clear up

    Leave a comment:


  • Brady Barrows
    replied
    Originally posted by Rubydo1 View Post
    Also a good idea. But I guess it’s getting it off the ground. As you say if there is no money in actually looking for a cure for pharmaceutical companies so real research by real rosacea sufferers is needed.
    I’ve had some doctors that are just cruel basically if you won’t do antibiotics then they are not interested.
    And only one horsepaste cream Soolantra? If your sensitive to the ingredients your stuffed unless you want to try and make your own which is a bit scary. I’ve been to eye hospital and one eye care specialist said Demodex don’t exist it’s an old wives tail �� That was the Sheffield eye hospital UK . It’s scary that when you get to the main eye Doctor there and your tell him about rosacea he asked if you have tried rubbing your eye lids with tea tree oil to which you have to point out to him that would be incredibly dangerous as it has to be very diluted or it will burn. To which he answered oh I’ve been given a book I haven’t read it properly yet. I’ll give you some antibiotics for three months. Which I didn’t take. Anyway after 10 weeks of soolantra and Optase wipes I went back and he said so you have taking the antibiotics? I said no I can’t as my guts are shot. He examined my eyes and said
    “what ever your doing keep doing as there is no sign of blepharitis” .......so I could have been even sicker with antibiotics with a condition that could come back as soon as I stop the antibiotics. The root cause have to be tackled first surely not just treating your bodies reaction to them dying. That’s if it is demodex of course.
    There are still some doctors who are not keeping up with demodectic rosacea which has a history of controversy behind it (scroll down to the subheading 'The History of the Demodex Controversy' in this article). The evidence is now overwhelming that demodectic rosacea is a rosacea variant. The NRS, the AARS, the ARSC, and the ADD do not recognize demodectic rosacea as a rosacea variant [what is a variant?], therefore, only the RRDi recognizes it. Not all rosacea is demodectic, but a significant number of rosacea sufferers respond to treatment for demodex mites.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capture531
    replied
    Originally posted by antwantsclear View Post
    A big problem if you only treat the face alone with Soolantra or Zhongzhou cream is that demodex mites live in the hair so they will just scurry off to other areas that you don't treat for mites and come back as soon as they can to the face! That's why tea tree oil shampoos etc are helpful. Tea tree oil shampoos and similar that kill the mites also speed up hair growth which a lot of people find an added bonus!
    Are you suggesting that ivermectin does not kill the mites at all? That they simply dont like it and migrate to other areas?

    Leave a comment:


  • antwantsclear
    replied
    Originally posted by Rubydo1 View Post
    Also a good idea. But I guess it’s getting it off the ground. As you say if there is no money in actually looking for a cure for pharmaceutical companies so real research by real rosacea sufferers is needed.
    I’ve had some doctors that are just cruel basically if you won’t do antibiotics then they are not interested.
    And only one horsepaste cream Soolantra? If your sensitive to the ingredients your stuffed unless you want to try and make your own which is a bit scary. I’ve been to eye hospital and one eye care specialist said Demodex don’t exist it’s an old wives tail �� That was the Sheffield eye hospital UK . It’s scary that when you get to the main eye Doctor there and your tell him about rosacea he asked if you have tried rubbing your eye lids with tea tree oil to which you have to point out to him that would be incredibly dangerous as it has to be very diluted or it will burn. To which he answered oh I’ve been given a book I haven’t read it properly yet. I’ll give you some antibiotics for three months. Which I didn’t take. Anyway after 10 weeks of soolantra and Optase wipes I went back and he said so you have taking the antibiotics? I said no I can’t as my guts are shot. He examined my eyes and said
    “what ever your doing keep doing as there is no sign of blepharitis” .......so I could have been even sicker with antibiotics with a condition that could come back as soon as I stop the antibiotics. The root cause have to be tackled first surely not just treating your bodies reaction to them dying. That’s if it is demodex of course.
    A big problem if you only treat the face alone with Soolantra or Zhongzhou cream is that demodex mites live in the hair so they will just scurry off to other areas that you don't treat for mites and come back as soon as they can to the face! That's why tea tree oil shampoos etc are helpful. Tea tree oil shampoos and similar that kill the mites also speed up hair growth which a lot of people find an added bonus!

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubydo1
    replied
    Originally posted by Brady Barrows View Post
    That is a really cool photo! You will learn a lot if you read this post by the Russians regarding Russian Study on Demodex Mites and Rosacea Illuminating. Are you aware of the horse paste for rosacea? The other option is the ZZ cream which many in this forum rave about. I think you are really on to something that eventually many will simply be doing their own demodex density count using their mobile device. Basically a physician prescribes Soolantra and says, 'try this and come back in 30 days' to see if Soolantra works. My dermatologist says one in four respond well to Soolantra. Horse paste seems to work even better than Soolantra based upon anecdotal reports, but we don't have an hard data on this. That is why it would be incredible if rosaceans would simply come together into one organization and make their own polls and data rather than rely on data that is skewed by pharmaceutical company data that obviously has a monetary interest in the results. It is so sad that rosaceans simply can't come together into one cohesive non profit organization. I have tried for many years to make this happen. But the volunteers are scanty.
    Also a good idea. But I guess it’s getting it off the ground. As you say if there is no money in actually looking for a cure for pharmaceutical companies so real research by real rosacea sufferers is needed.
    I’ve had some doctors that are just cruel basically if you won’t do antibiotics then they are not interested.
    And only one horsepaste cream Soolantra? If your sensitive to the ingredients your stuffed unless you want to try and make your own which is a bit scary. I’ve been to eye hospital and one eye care specialist said Demodex don’t exist it’s an old wives tail �� That was the Sheffield eye hospital UK . It’s scary that when you get to the main eye Doctor there and your tell him about rosacea he asked if you have tried rubbing your eye lids with tea tree oil to which you have to point out to him that would be incredibly dangerous as it has to be very diluted or it will burn. To which he answered oh I’ve been given a book I haven’t read it properly yet. I’ll give you some antibiotics for three months. Which I didn’t take. Anyway after 10 weeks of soolantra and Optase wipes I went back and he said so you have taking the antibiotics? I said no I can’t as my guts are shot. He examined my eyes and said
    “what ever your doing keep doing as there is no sign of blepharitis” .......so I could have been even sicker with antibiotics with a condition that could come back as soon as I stop the antibiotics. The root cause have to be tackled first surely not just treating your bodies reaction to them dying. That’s if it is demodex of course.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rubydo1
    replied
    Originally posted by Capture531 View Post
    Here are also several pics of what my skin does.
    It would explain why you was breaking out in whiteheads with soolantra.
    You was having die off.

    I’m on week 10 and still having the odd white head. Not sure if this is normal but I’m pushing through to week 12 then I’m back to derm who again will try and give me antibiotics even though I have Gastritis and want to be sick all the time and struggle to eat.
    Some docs suggested antibiotics before I even got the spots. For me everything else should be tried first unless someone has a really good gut function and they want to go down the antibiotic route. But seeing how antibiotics triggered my gut problem I really don’t want to go there.

    Leave a comment:

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